NW and DL file Chapter 11

Sep 14th, 2005, 06:48 PM
  #1  
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NW and DL file Chapter 11

Just saw on the Airline section and Yahoo News that both DL and NW have filed for Chapter 11.
You guys in the US know more what that means, it's re-organization really as opposed to goinf bust.
Anyway thought you might like/need to know if making plans.

Also saw on Yahoo that NW are stopping their JFK-Narita non-stop but still retain connections over DTW and ORD citing fuel price for those long hauls.
JamesA is offline  
Sep 14th, 2005, 07:24 PM
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i did not know N/W had a direct flight from jfk....are you sure of that??

in any case they say it will not really affect things at all....now you won't even get stale bread in the sandwiches probably....

all f/f programs in tact which is the important thing....i think primarily it was to reduce costs associated with labor unions...
rhkkmk is offline  
Sep 14th, 2005, 08:30 PM
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NW 017/018 had been JFK-NRT-HKG for decades!

The reason they dropped this route is pretty simple. Look at the competition on this heavily competed route:

- AA/UA/NH/CO flies 777 (CO from EWR)
- NW and JL with 747.

The 777 is signficantly more fuel efficient, and JL's 744 has First or Business class seats filling up over half the plane. NW is at a huge</> disadvantage.

But it's not all because of fuel cost. Of the 6 airlines, only NW doesn't have video screen in coach, and it has poor reputation for service. This means all they can only compete on price - so that makes the yield even lower.

How can an airline that's biggest asset is a hub 6,000+ miles away from your HQ not order any 340 or 777? Instead they went cheap and bought the 330s that they can fly from MSP/DTW to NRT, let alone JFK. All they can use is the 744.

Yeah, fuel cost is a really short-term reason. But longer-term, it's mistakes that NW has made over the years.
rkkwan is offline  
Sep 14th, 2005, 08:31 PM
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Sorry for the "bold" problem.
rkkwan is offline  
Sep 15th, 2005, 06:17 PM
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give me a 747 any day!!!! the new planes are nice but not that much better...

i rearely use the tv
rhkkmk is offline  
Sep 16th, 2005, 08:48 AM
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Sad news regarding cancellation of JFK - Narita flight. This has been my family's choice route for decades! Time to look for a new one...
Martinan is offline  
Sep 16th, 2005, 09:12 AM
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I wish I were you and could sleep threw anything. but I just have too sit there for hours, either stairing at the food tray ( im bline and cant see the roof mounteed monitors. or if Im lucky I can watch the same show over and over on my personal ecnn entertainmetn syestom. Frashier is actually funny after watching it 5 timesw.
orgy7 is offline  
Sep 16th, 2005, 09:13 AM
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yes I ment blind, but I could not see the keys..
orgy7 is offline  
Sep 16th, 2005, 09:16 AM
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I did that NRT-JFK some years back, classic views of the Polar region! Lots about this on the Airlines section, I agree with what said there that for an airline which is so well established on the long haul Asia routes not investing in A-340's or long range 777's was a bad idea.
Someone told me that although airlines make their biggest bucks from First and Business they also have so many in those classes on upgrades and free seats, they said the biggest clear profit earner based on weight/space ratio was an Economy deluxe product, they out in say 48 seats in place of 60, have 12 passengers and baggage less to carry ( that's about 1.2 tonnes, or 480 pounds weight ), provide 12 less meals, handle 12 less passengers, but can charge a fare that is highly profitable that creates far more profit than 60 Coach seats.
I would have though the long hauls to Asia from the East Coast would be 'perfect' for Economy/Coach del-luxe class. Every time Eva send in an aircraft for refit they increase Economy de-luxe substantially. Also before using the A 330's on the intra-Asian sectors NW had single aisle 757's on those regional routes, and in Asia people just don't expect such an aircraft.

I am sure Bob and other regulars would go for that class if it was available. You hear so much about First/Luxury travel and then about discount/budget travel that sometimes it is forgotten just how many travelers say 'I can't afford the luxury of First/Business or 5 star accommodation but likewise I am not a budget traveler and am happy to get value for money and be 'between' those fares/hotels.
JamesA is offline  
Sep 16th, 2005, 09:18 AM
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Sorry my Math was out, 12 passengers less x about 240 lbs including baggage saves 2,900 pounds weight, hence less fuel.
JamesA is offline  
Sep 16th, 2005, 09:52 AM
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Amen james. thats where I stand at this point in my life. I want VALUE.
=========

I think I did United jfk - narita direct but I donlt remember seing polor anything or maybe I was staring at the top of someones hari at the time.
orgy7 is offline  
Sep 16th, 2005, 05:52 PM
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JamesA - I totally agree with you about premium economy. For example, my parents wouldn't pay $4,000+ for a business seat IAH-HKG, but will gladly spend $1,500 for premium economy if the schedule is good, and they can earn enough EQM for being elite on some airline.

I've mentioned EVA to them numerous times, but at the end, CO IAH-EWR-HKG is faster with few connections, and more EQMs. Maybe they'll decide to try it someday...
rkkwan is offline  

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