Hello,

I am planning a trip for 2019 including 2 grandparents, 2 parents and 2 children (that will be 6 and 3 years old). I am having difficulty in finding the right order to visit the different areas of interests. I need to figure out the open jaw ticket since we will be using points for business class seats for everyone, and therefore using using different routes to get to the initial stop and to come back. We will be traveling from the eastern coast of USA.

The grandparents' interests are: yoga, meditation, cultural dances, vegetarian food, hikes (grandmother).
The parents' interest are: canyoning, history and landscape photography
The children's interests are: swimming, elephants, seafood

I think we can take one to two months off. Can be May, June, July, December, or March. I am not sure which months we should take off.

Here we go (although I think the final itinerary will look very different thanks to inputs). I am not putting the amount of nights in each stops yet, since I am still getting a feel for the general itinerary and if it is feasible taking in account the wishes from everyone. Or maybe I missed a favorite destination from someone on this forum and I will include it.

1) Fly to Phuket and ferry to Koh Yao Noi. Relax. Kayak to Koh Hong.

2) Fly to Chang Mai. Volunteer in an elephant rescue camp.

3) Take a 3 day cruise to Luang Prabang via the Mekong River.

4) Fly to Siem Reap to visit Angkor.

5) Fly to Singapore.

6) Fly to Ubud Bali

7) Fly home.

Does this order make sense?
Any input would be most welcome. I have only been to South Korea and Japan. The rest of the family has never been to Asia.

Several comments:

As you know, the logistics for such a large group are complex.

Typically, to get to Phuket, you need to fly through Bangkok. I would recommend you spend a few days there. Bangkok is a fascinating city with much to see and do. Stay along the river and you will find it is very pleasant.

That will also give you time to rest and acclimate before your long trip to Koh Yao Noi.

For an excellent and humane elephant rescue camp, look at the elephant Nature Park - book ahead online. As you may know most of the elephant camps are abusive, so you have to choose carefully.

The 3 day cruise to Luang Prabang on the Luang Say gets good reviews. Spend some time in Luang Prabang - relax and soak up the atmosphere.

To prepare for your trip to Angkor, buy a copy of Dawn Rooney's book, Angkor: A Guide to Cambodia's Wondrous Temples. You will need a minimum of three full days to see the major temples, more time if any in your group are especially Interested.

Singapore will be your most expensive stop. Hotels are quite pricey, but there is lots for your group to do and see.

From there, fly to Bali. You can't fly to Ubud, you fly into DPS (Denpasar) and get a car and driver from there to Ubud.

This is a long trip. Give yourselves time to rest and acclimate. Spending more time at each stop will make this a better trip for everyone.

You will find this part of Asia is very different from Japan and Korea.

enjoy your planning!

I think your choice of destinations is solid and reflects your group's interests. For your travel dates and order you should consider weather, holidays and high tourist seasons in each place. This may entail some juggling and trade offs.

I'll speak to Indonesia because that's the place I'm most familiar with. You'll get good weather and low tourist season from March to June and September/October. July/August and December/early January are the high tourist season. The rainy season starts in December and goes through February.

The following major Hindu holidays are a wonderful time to be in Bali for temple ceremonies and festivities: Nyepi on March 17 and Galungan/Kuningan from May 30 to June 9.

Ubud hosts a food festival in end-May and a book festival in end-October. The are terrific events if you're interested in that sort type of thing. If not, it's better to avoid Ubud when the festivals are on.

Basically you can find everything on your wish list (except elephants) in Bali. It's spiritual, photogenic, full of nature, culture, wellness and adventure activities and very welcoming to small children.

It's a small island and relatively easy to get around with a van and driver. you should take advantage of both the inland area as well as the southern beaches. Ubud is a given, but you should also look at Amed, Sidemen, Munduk and Canggu. There are yoga retreats, temple ceremonies, volcanoes, lush landscapes and phenomenal scenery all over the island.

You can rent villas most everywhere too, with your own pool and staff. Some days you'll just want to sit on the veranda and look at the view, maybe have a massage. SE Asia is a slow place. Allow yourselves plenty of down time.

You might also consider spending a few days in Java -- Central Java for Yogyakarta and Borobudur and East Java for the Mt Bromo area. Avoid Ramadan and the holidays following though. A stop on a quiet beach in Lombok would also be a good add-on.

From the east coast of the US I would try to connect to Singapore or Bangkok through Europe. Within Southeast Asia AirAsia is cheap and efficient.

Sounds like a great trip!

Thank you Kathie and Marmot for your replies. I have read some of your wisdom on other thread and I am most grateful.

The month of June seems like a good fit for Bali but I wonder how it would be in Thailand, Laos and Cambodia. I will do some more research.

Just a couple comments for you because we have visited most of the places on your list, and we have grandkids in this age category.

I know Kathie really likes Bangkok. We don't. It was our least favorite part on a six week trip that included Laos and Cambodia. To me, it would be even more awful when traveling with kids this age.

We recently spent 8 nights in Ubud at Alam Indah hotel, and there were families with small kids there. If you don't rent a villa, this hotel might be a match for your group.

We did the two day trip from the Thai border to Luang Prabang and really enjoyed it. But, I don't know if I can envision what two active, small children would do all of the time. Certainly, they can sit and read or play with their toys or color, but I know kids that age also need some chasing and racing around time. Boats aren't all that big, and shore excursions are brief and structured.

In the Siem Reap area I might focus on some of the smaller, lesser visited complexes where the kids can be "explorers" rather than places like Angkor Wat where it is one continuous stream of tour group over tour group. We spent ten nights in Siem Reap and moved from our first hotel to another that we liked much better because it had grounds which provided a peaceful retreat from hot and dusty Siem Reap. It certainly isn't super fancy, but it would probably be a good match for the kids--Sonalong Boutique Resort.

Hope this helps.

Oh and I wanted to add, I am 100% on board with an elephant experience that is humane. I don't want to ride them and I don't need to see a baby elephant if it means it is separated from it's mom.

What I having the most difficulties right now is finding out a "good" month to travel to both south east asia (and the Andaman sea) and Bali. It is easiest to travel during the US summer months, which seems good for indonesia only. I am ok with a hour or two of rain but it would be hard to be indoors all the time.

I will look into Central and East Java and Bangkok (by the river).

Thank you Julies for your post. Yes, I am reluctant to go to Bangkok. I could see ourselves spending one night there either coming from the States or leaving to go home, but not really spending time there. In all likelihood we will fly into Singapore and out of Bangkok or vice versa. And Singapore will also be just a stopover, 1 night or two.

I appreciate the hotel suggestions for small children and the focus on he smaller temples in Angkor. I also saw that there was a bicycle tour and I thought that could also be a fun family activity.

Concerning three day cruise down to Luang Prabang, I will keep in mind to have plenty of books and movies for the children.

I don't think there is a good month that covers all your destinations. You might want to skip Indonesia on this trip and consider adding Vietnam instead.

I totally agree with julies about Bangkok! I also have doubts about Angkor with kids that age. It will be hot and humid and crowded at any time of year, and while the temples can be fascinating for adults they may all start to look alike to young children.

Not sure where the yoga and meditation fit in. Hikes would probably be northern Laos. Maybe crellston will chime in, or you could look for his trip reports. I don't remember, julies - did you do any hiking?

You are going to find this area quite different to SK and especially Japan. Much more color and life out on the streets, but much more poverty as well.

I've been thinking more about this, and I am going to give you a piece of advice you probably don't want to hear. Wait a couple more years until the grandkids are a bit older, and you will be able to put together a trip that is much more satisfying for all.

We have grandkids ranging from younger than yours to older. And, we just spent 9 hours yesterday on a pontoon boat and beach expedition with the ones who are six and just turned four. We spend lots of time with our grandkids, and we vacation with them for a week at a lake cabin where they are worn out with activities that they like and are directed at them. I just keep trying to picture what our SEA trips (six weeks in Cambodia and Laos, and another different one where we spent six weeks in Myanmar and Bali) would have been like with little ones in tow. So much of what we enjoyed wouldn't appeal to kids at all.

We did a day bike trip around Siem Reap and really enjoyed it. But, much of it was on dirt trails and back roads, and I truly don't know how much little kids would like it. Whether the agencies even have bike seats for kids or tag-alongs, I don't know. When you think about this idea, please remove any pictures you have in your mind about happy families on nice paved paths leisurely biking around. We also did a day bike trip out of Ubud, and were with a family who had a 5 or 6 year old. They did get a child's seat from the agency, and we all tried to point out things of interest to her. She seemed okay with the trip.

As far as hiking, we did walks around the rice paddies in Bali. I suspect these wouldn't really call to little kids though. In Laos, we traveled north from Luang Prabang to Nong Khiaw and really liked the area. There we did some hiking to an overlook that was gorgeous, but no way would anyone with two little kids ever make it up there. And, we did a day trip with an agency that involved several hours of boating (think dugout canoe with wooden chairs set in a longitudinal row and no life jackets) and trekking into remote villages.

Have you spent much time in developing countries? Things that we all take for granted like guardrails, railings, cautions etc. are non-existent. Car seats are not at all common, and I don't even know if they are available. For any boat excursions any life-saving devices for adults are pretty sketchy, and life jackets for kids probably aren't available. You'd need to bring your own life jackets or puddle jumpers.

In many of these countries we saw endless examples of little children on their own doing things that westerners would be appalled at. We saw a 2 to 3 year old in a village happily playing with a machete and cutting things. We saw canoes with 3 or 4 kids, ages perhaps about 5 or 6, paddling around on their own in the rivers. Of course, no life jackets. Then, of course, their are the motor cycles with entire families piled on. I don't believe I have ever seen a car seat in our SEA travels.

Strollers (and at times you might even want one that could hold both kids at once) aren't easy to manipulate at all in most of these areas. There aren't really any public parks as we know them where you could take the kids to run off some steam. I don't want to be a downer, but I am just trying to tell you about the reality. I think rather than asking for advice from people here, most of whom are more mature, you should perhaps be taking a look at websites or books that talk about traveling with children in these areas. After all, if the kids are miserable, you will be miserable too.

And, if you decide to do this trip, I'd have at least two different beach destinations to break it up for the kids. We didn't visit there, but I believe there are some river beach destinations like Kratie (maybe).

Bali was south of the "monsoon belt" when I visited this past May ( I was there the third week in May, just after the food festival). I do think Ubud ticks nearly all the boxes (not sure about Elephants) and definitely all of the grandparents ones! And May is a good month for Indonesia..not into the heart of tourist season yet. June may also be okay. I defer to marmot on that!

Just high enough in elevation to take the edge off of the heat and humidity, too.

I did stopover in Singapore for 10 hours and took the free evening tour on the way back home... Even at 9pm the humidity was overwhelming. Some good food choices inside the Singapore airport. I found an incredible airfare on Singapore Airlines from the west coast. Great way to fly even in economy, so it wasn't worth using airmiles.

I think julies is giving you some good if unwelcome advice.

To add to her beach suggestion, I always think it is a real shame if visitors to Cambodia only go to Siem Reap. Aside from Phnom Penh and Battambang the coastal area at Kep and Kompot, or even Sihanoukville, are possibilities. Sihanoukville was already fairly well discoverd in 2002, and I hear that the facilities in Kep and Kompot have improved since then.

There are also beach options in Vietnam.

While I think of Singapore as "Disneyland Asia" I think it could be a good first stop for you. It is clean and well organized and there is plenty to see and loads of good places to eat. If you start there you might consider Malaysia instead of Indonesia. Also easy travel, with long distance buses, and trains through to Bangkok.

Or maybe I was just before the food festival (I left 20 May)!

Anyways I think Ubud and Bali would be a good addition for all generations and might consider dropping something else instead.

There is an interesting range of accommodations types from fancy hotels to homestays at all price levels.

It seems that all the Fodorites stay at the same hotel in Ubud from what I've read but I found a good price at Sri Ratih.. I think they have some rooms that are good for families and there was a good range of ages there. They are near some good walks although it isn't a "rice paddy view" and has a good onsite restaurant.

If you are interested in learning a bit more about Singapore and Bali, you might find some value in my trip report. I was in the area for 10 May through 6 June.
http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...a-and-bali.cfm

Hi there - sounds like an amazing trip. As I am one who took my first two daughters on their first of many safaris in South Africa when they were 2 and 4 and when the third child was born she was was in South East Asia -- Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam -- at the age of 5, I do not agree about not bringing the grandkids. My little one is now 9 and has traipsed around the globe with her sisters in Asia, Europe, 10 countries in Africa and has been to Latin America and the Carribbean. So please bring the grandkids and enjoy the multi-generation trip! Just consider doing as I did and others advised to plan your days with them in mind to include rests, specific daily kid-friendly activity and a beach destination. By the way, we took all the kids to all the main temples in Cambodia, but also added a day of volunteering at Ponleary Ly Foundation which the kids loved, a cooking class, a ride on Tonle Sap River and plenty of time in the pool. My kids are now 9, 13, and 15. This summer the 13 year old spent 2 weeks in South Africa volunteering in a township and the 15 year old went to Peru for three weeks to build sanitation systems on Lake Titicaca. I have no doubt that introducing them to global travel at a such young ages has shaped them to be adventurous and avid travelers and great global citizens. As long as you keep things in perspective that your trip planning must take into account their ages, I have no doubt that you can plan a fantastic trip for the whole family to enjoy. Again, we did Cambodia, Vietnam and Laos on the first trip, but a few years later did Japan and Bali, so if you have specific questions about things we did with the kids, please do not hesitate to ask. What a blessing to be able to plan such a trip. Happy planning!

We traveled extensively in SE Asia in the 80's when our son was around the ages of your children. From 1.5 to 6 years we made trips from the US to Burma, Bali, Java and Borneo. Later after we moved to Asia, we continued to travel to places in Thailand, the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore and other parts of Indonesia. (We didn't make it to Cambodia until recently and have never been to Laos.) They were all good trips. I don't know how much my son remembers directly but the stories and photos are part of his heritage.

From experience I would say that Thai beaches, Bali and Java are very child friendly. My son would have loved a day on a river boat; 3 days might have been too confining. Angkor depends on the kid and the parents' patience for hauling them up and down stairs and coping with heat and crowds. (They'll like the tuk tuks.) Bangkok is not so easy to get around but my son liked the glittery palaces and temples as well as traveling by river boat. I haven't been to an elephant park.

Since you are traveling with 4 adults perhaps you could take turns temple visiting, hiking and spending quiet time with the kids.

If the weather in the Andaman Sea doesn't mesh with your travel dates, look at the east coast of Thailand. If Angkor proves too much to handle, look at Borobudur, Prambanan and the Dieng Plateau.

My son's favorites were (still are, actually) beaches, volcanoes, caves, temples that he could climb, rice paddy walks, masked dances, processions and gamelan music. Indonesians are incredibly hospitable to children. They will entertain them while you eat or shop, carry them on hikes, teach them to batik, play instruments, dance or surf. Your guide will tailor your experience to your group's interest and ability.

Some random tips on traveling in SE Asia with kids. (Some apply to over 60s too. I now have experience with that age group as well.)
Make sure your insurance covers medical evacuation. Read the fine print.
Slow down! It's hot, it's humid, it's strange. Take naps.
Take advantage of inexpensive, friendly childcare, but provide guidelines. Be aware that many Asians don't swim. Watch children around water, including fish ponds.
As mentioned Asia is not childproofed. Beware of exposed outlets, wobbly railings, sudden drop offs, crumbly steps. And especially the plague of motorcycles where they're not supposed to be.
Find food that your children like and that is available 24/7. Drink lots of water.

In recent years Bali has become the APAC epicenter for yoga, meditation, wellness, massage, healthy eating and healing. Not just Ubud but all over Bali. If you consider a few days in south Bali, look at Desa Seni.

Hi again,

Marmot makes such a good point. I found not only Indonesians, but the Vietnamese and Cambodians extremely hospitable to children. The tour guides were ever patient and creative with ideas that suited the kids and adults alike. And I forgot to mention the lantern making, mask making, dancing class, festival watching, etc. And the time we took to just let our children play with local children is priceless. And yes, the idea that one or more adults chill out with the kids by the pool while other adults go to those sites that might be best for adults is another great thing to consider. While I planned both the Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos trip, as well as the Japan and Bali trip, I asked Fodorites and tour guides specific ideas of what to do overall and with the kids in mind. I then crafted what I think was a perfect itinerary for all. And as marmot also said, while they may not remember every trip, stories and photos are apart of their heritage. And their desire to now travel and serve on their own lets me know that the travel they started as tiny tikes is now imprinted on their soul. Enjoy!

Thank you for your excellent advices; even if conflicted at times.
As a mother, I do worry about the safety of my children traveling in poorer areas of the world, mostly I worry about illnesses such as dehydration and electrolyte imbalance brought on by diarrhea. As a physician, I know that a lot of antibiotics such as cipro or doxycycline and medicine such as Imodium is counterindicated in young children. But zofran is not! ��

Julies: your intentions are the best. You asked if I have traveled outside of industrial nations, and I have. I have been mostly to Africa: Tunisia, Egypt, Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa. I have also been to Ecuador and Costa Rica. But it was before I was a mother. And now more than ever I am acutely aware of children and poverty. A child of six playing with a machete? Yikes!
We travel quite a bit as a family, mostly to Europe four times a year. My children love it; they are not the ones with the meltdowns or the impatience (but other friends and family members on the other hand...). I think it would be interesting and exciting to turn our gaze to another continent. Waiting a few more years can turn the trip into a Never. My parents could get sick. We could decide to have another child.

Thursdaysd and mlgb: your suggestions are good ones. Thank you.

Lolazahra and marmot: thank you so much for posting. It seems we have in common raising "citizens of the world". I find you both inspirational. Your advice is invaluable. Thank you.

Kja: I have read your trip report... three times. I have bookmarked it. Your style of traveling would be very similar to mine if I did not have young children. Your planning, the wealth of information you provide is incredibly useful. I am currently following you in Greece. Your trip reports are my favorites.

In the end, I might decide to split the trip into two: one for Indonesia with the grandparents and one for south east Asia for the nuclear family.

My daughters don't always do all the activities planed. Often, a parent stays with them at the pool, the piazza, the playground etc...while the other parent roams and see the sights. Ditto for the hiking. With even more adults, the flexibility is exponentially better.

TourjoursVoyager

You have had some excellent, of sometime conflicting advice here. There are many factors to consider in planning a long trip to Asia, even more so when two generations are involved. I was tasked with organising my wife's parents visit to join us for a few weeks in Asia to celebrate their 50th wedding anniversary. It took a lot of organising to make sure the trip was enjoyed by all and within their respective capabilities, and . It is always the little things one can forget which can make a big difference. I can only imagine the addition complexities involved if their grandchildren had come too!

TIMING

When to go is clearly the first key issue if only because the weather varies so much in Asia with the various monsoons. There are certain holidays which can have a huge influence on how busy hotels and transport will be. Chinese New Year, Tet, Ramadan can all have a big influence.

WEATHER
Generally speaking Nov - March is a good time for SE Asia. Temperatures and humidity are lower at that time of year which of course, in turn, attracts more visitors causing it to be lot busier and more expensive. Likewise with Indonesia, June - sept sees good weather there.

There are other, more localised factors to consider as well. In the north of Thailand and Laos to wards the end of the dry season they burn the fields and forest to make way for new crops. This causes widespread serious pollution so I would avoid the cruise to Luang Prabang fro March to May, possibly Feb as well. We did it a few years ago in March and all we saw sailing down river was flames on either bank and choking smoke for two days. These days, since th damming of the Mekong by the Thais and Chinese, the water levels can be exceptionally low making river Travel difficult and impossible in parts.

If you do decide to split your trip then a month each in SE Asia and Indonesia. We enjoyed a trip travelling down through Java to Bali by train mostly. Some amazing sights but we did make the mistake of travelling during Ramadan. Not great being woken at 4am most mornings by the calls to prayer - I can only imagine what it would have been like with a three year old!

Some photos and deatails of the route we took on that trip and other around Asia are on our blog https://accidentalnomads.com


As far as weather is concerned, we are currently on a six month trip through Asia to Australia and New Zealand. Have you considered NZ? Now that is a place that would suit a multi generational trip perfectly.

Anyway I digress, on this trip from May to Nov, the biggest challenge, apart from my own indecision, has been the weather. I have found this tour operators website to provide an excellent tool to get detail on the weather in all Asia locations throughout the year.

Just click on "where do you want to go", the country and then "weather" then month and so on.
https://www.selectiveasia.com

@ ToujoursVoyager: I certainly understand that someone traveling with young ones would travel differently than I do, and hope you didn’t think I was suggesting otherwise! I just thought that you might find some useful information in report – and maybe you did? And thank you so much for your kind words about my trip reports, here and on my ongoing TR about my time in Greece! Much appreciated….

Crellston: thank you for your advice. I has heard of the burning in the north of Thailand in February but not close to March or May. And in Indonesia, I would not want to be awoken up by the sound of the prayer at 4am.

kja: I loved reading your report! It is incredibly useful! I have it bookmarked on my computer, so I can go back and take notes. I use to travel the same way as you, hard, wanting to see as much as possible, in depth, relaxing during my meals. I do miss it sometimes.