Hi guys,

I've searched the threads and didn't see any input on this. A dear friend and I were to journey together next year and she wants to do Bangkok..claims she needs a vacation that's different and exotic. Keep in mind that we both have very young ones. Her child will be 2.5 yrs at the time of the proposed trip...mine even younger.

I was surprised by her suggestion of BKK to say the least! I have never heard of anyone taking young ones to BBK.

Has anyone here ever traveled with minors to Maylasia? If so, what are your suggestions/advice. I'm against the voyage and would not consider subjecting my little one to such a long journey...not to mention that BKK doesn't seem like a place for minors, IMHO (I could be wrong here)

I need some insight from you wise Fodorites to pass on to my friend. HELP! BTW, what the travel time to BKK from NYC and what are the travel options?
Thanks

There are no direct flights to BKK from New York. You will connect in Tokyo or Seoul. Travel time will be at least 20 hours out and 24 hours return. When you get to Bangkok, it will be HOT(!) Unless you make arrangements with your hotel (maybe another poster can advise you on this), you will most likely be taking your children with you when you visit the mostly adult-oriented sites around Bangkok. I don't recommend it.

I don't think it's a good idea.

First Bangkok is in Thailand, not Malaysia.

From New York, you would have to connect. Many options. West coast, Tokyo, Hong Kong or maybe even go in the opposite direction through Europe. I don't think there is a direct flight just yet from NYC-BKK. This will make it for a VERY LOOOONG day. Recently I flew TPA-ORD-NRT-BKK(First and business class - BIG difference), and I'm a seasoned flyer. Still it was getting to me towards the end of the trip. On the way back, I must have picked up something on the plane, as I went down as soon as I got home. It was some nasty flu bug, and according to the doc, probably got it from breathing the air on the planes for about 20-22 hours. Why would you want to expose your kid to this torture is beyond me.

Bangkok, Thailand - Beautiful, historically rich capital city of amazingly beautiful country. The Thai people are wonderful. The hotels are top notch. It's fairly inexpensive.
But you are talking about infants or very young children here. There is really nothing there that will hold their interest for very long. If you are after the beach experience, you could find something a lot closer to home.

The very young kids in this case would not get enough benefit from this trip to expose them to the very long, very tiring, torturous flights. Wait few years before a trip like this, so at least they could discover the history and beauty of Thailand.

As far as taking such young kids on such long journeys we wouldn't do it! It is no fun for them, they won't even remember it. Having said that there is no +/- to taking kids to Bangkok as opposed to any other place with such a long journey. From NYC area though I would use the European route but in fact from April Next year Emirates will be flying Non-Stop from JFK to Dubai with their new longe range aircraft and from Dubai it's about 6 hrs into Bangkok, so if I was doing the trip after April I would for sure use Emirates.

Is whether or not children remember travel experiences at such a young age really the issue? Isn't the point rather whether they will enjoy the experience as they go and not make it intolerable for the parents?

I've just taken my one-year-old to England, Holland, and all over the Baltic States, staying away for six weeks. Certainly the journey times (even from the west coast of North America) were not so long, but I found the greatest difficulty was on return, with re-establishing sleeping patterns, not with the trip out, all the travel around (multiple flights, ferries, and long car rides), or the return flight. You merely need to be well-stocked with materials to make the flight diverting, once its immediately diverting qualities wear off. Of course, individual children respond differently, and only you know your child's general disposition. I wouldn't worry about flying to Bangkok with mine.

As for Bangkok's particular appropriateness or otherwise, I think some of the postings above miss the point. The entrance to a sleazy dive, for instance, isn't interesting or disgusting to a small child, whose interest will lie in its brightly flashing lights. A Buddhist temple may catch the attention because of the shiny gold on the stupa, the flapping orange robes of the monks, the monstrous shapes of some statues, or, even more likely, because of a temple cat which walks past. In short there's absolutely no point in considering Bangkok's attractions, which include much with no sleaze factor at all (temples, palaces, museums, markets, boat rides), in the same terms as adults do, because to children it's to do with shapes, sounds, colours, movements, and general novelty. I would have thought children would enjoy a floating market, boats on the river, and, of course, the various facilities of whatever hotel you choose, even if the latter are far from being the main point of interest for you.

In Tallinn, my little boy made nothing intellectually or aesthetically of the superbly well-done conversion of a 14th-century building into the hotel where we stayed, but he loved a little stone arch in one wall which was about his height, and into which he could squeeze himself, and a particular light switch which he could reach and turn on and off. He didn't have much to say about Art Nouveau architecture in Riga, but he liked the way his stroller bounced over the cobbles. He certainly appreciated trying wild boar, elk, various berry sauces, and baked apple deserts for the first time, and the fact that he won't remember is a shame, but only because we see it that way. It makes no difference to the fact that he heartily enjoyed himself at the time.

The main issues to consider are whether your child has proved a good traveller or not so far (on car journeys, say), whether you yourself are the kind of person who can be well-organized and well-prepared, take things calmly, and not be fretful about every slight variation from the norms of home, especially in matters of hygiene, to which you'll have to pay extra attention as you would in any other less well-developed country (mainly in keeping fingers out of mouths). If any of this seems a problem, then I'd suggest your friend find something exotic in Europe, or Mexico, which is a far shorter flight. Your children, after all, won't care what the destination is and are just as likely to enjoy Bangkok as anywhere else.

If any exotic break is needed, and you won't let the children 'spoil' it for you, then take an exotic break.

Peter N-H
http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html

Thanks guys, exactly my sentiments! I have told my friend that I would not subject my little one to such cruel and unusual punishment! It' a hard enough journey for adults let alone kids. Personally, I would wait until my little tyke is at least 11-12yrs old before doing such a journey with him.

I think my friend just didn't do any research and thought it would be reasonably doable. Heck, I had the option of doing Brazil and am even ruling that out since it's not a locale that he would appreciate being so young...and Brazil is a mere 8.5 hrs direct from NYC...still quite a hike IMHO.

Sorry, guys I meant to say Thailand, yes, I know BKK is in Thailand (I'm somewhat of a Geo buff). Thanks again, I will copy this thread and mail it to her.

Long trips with children are not all that unusual, but usually it is to visit family or friends, where the children can often stay when the adults take time for themselves to sightsee, and where you know you have reliable people to care for the children when you're otherwise busy.

The flight from NYC is usually over the Pole and is at least 12-hrs, then a layover somewhere in Asia (2-3/hrs hopefully), then 6-hrs to BKK. Then know that BKK is hot and humid, and while you can certainly find air conditioned hotels, many sights are outdoors and even those indoors do not have a/c (temples). Certainly you can arrange for private driver in a/c car, but then you have to get out into the heat.

While the Thai people, whether hotel staff or general population will pamper your children and be thrilled that you thought to bring them, it'll still be most uncomfortable more time than not for them, if not for you.

And what do the children get out of the trip? Sure they'll initially be fascinated by new colors and shapes, but not much else. Children less than 5 will not remember the trip by the time they are in their teens. They might vaguely seem to recognize themselves in photos you show them years later, but what they did there, and why they were there, will be a complete fog.

We once traveled with a very well behaved 4-yr old to the Middle East, and he was a gem - so smart, even asking questions about the Bedouin children living in tents with their animals, like why? - but he never complained, nor fussed, he loved the time he was there and all the attention he received. But when we asked him at age 10 if he remembered the trip, he could only recognize himselves in photos, but had no other recall. And by the time he was 16, had to recall at all.

You will certainly remember the trip, and ask yourself why you did it, when you won't be able to enjoy fully the wonders of this amazing country. Most adults, even with extensive travel experience and accustomed to air travel are knocked off their butts from any extremely long trip.

If you have to take your children, go someplace close or, at least, not so far a distance as SEAsia - Try England, France, Italy, the Caribbean, Mexico, Costa Rica, but not to Bangkok.

Actually we took our son to India when he was 13 mos. old and he tolerated the flight better than us and once jet lag was over with he was fine, as were we. It is doable in my opinion but I would wait until the kids were old enough to appreciate and remember the trip. Kids at this want to play, not sight see. How about a beach locale? Let them play on the sand, go in the water, etc. They will love it and you can relax. Always worked for us.

I think once kids are 4 or 5 it's fine, and indeed at that time when they are staring school it is in fact a brilliant idea that they see the world and get used to the facts about other ways of life. But I have seen posts by people asking if it was 'ok' to take a 3 months old baby on a month trip around India and the such. We travel everywhere as a family but when you take the family along you have to think about 'everyone'. When we travel around Thailand in the Wagon even the Dogs come too, but they have just as much stuff, dishes, rags, toys, all the stuff to make them feel 'at home' wherever we are!

While I agree with most of the above postings that suggest against taking a toddler to Bangkok, we've spent several summers there with our two kids and not regretted it one bit. Our youngest was in kindergarten when we first went and still remembers quite a bit of the trip and what we did. If he were younger, perhaps he'd recall nothing, but where else in world can a kid hold baby tigers, ride and feed elephants, hatch crocodiles, and enjoy the experience of a tuk tuk ride.

This trip would be do-able with a baby (age 1 or younger), and also with older children. But 2.5 years is a very bad age for trips of this type. You would just make both your lives miserable. Wait until the child is a little older before going on this type of vacation.

I haven't read all the responses here, so I hope I don't repeat anyone. Personally I don't think travel with little ones is a problem. We are taking our one-year old for a three week trip to Europe over the holidays and looking forward to it! But it depends on the kiddo - ours is very good-natured and is happiest when she's out and about.

However, I would think twice about the destination. I live in Malaysia, and I think you would have much the same experience in Thailand as I have here: Asians think white babies and small children are like "dolls", perhaps even bearers of good luck, and paw at them every chance they get. Apparently "germs" are not something they think about much. Going to a shopping mall is a nightmare, trying to dodge every single woman who comes at us. Ugh - serious pet peeve of mine, I'm telling you. Even a mosquito net over the stroller doesn't deter them. I cursed a woman out the other day - I'd just had enough.

The other BIG issue is climate. You would be confined to indoors a lot of the time because it is just too hot and sunny (most strollers do not have great coverage, and in this kind of sun, sun screen is, in my opinon, not enough for sensitive, fair baby/toddler skin). And too much heat makes for cranky babes!

And I would say most of Asia is NOT stroller friendly, either. And when going in cars you will be horrified by the safety issue - no seatbelts most of the time, much less appropriate child restraints.

I would definitely consider somewhere more kid-friendly though. Just because we become parents doesn't mean our travelling days must end! Long flights don't really deter me - it's only a day out of your life, even if it is miserable. I just try to go for overnight flights, when the baby will sleep. Think of places where you can get some sight-seeing in, but also have fun just lazing about.

I think the argument (just scanning replies here) over whether the kiddo will appreciate or remember it is kind of ridiculous. Who cares? *I* will remember and appreciate it! My sister has great photos of her little boy at 2 years, playing along Hadrian's Wall. She appreciates those, and he will too one day, even if he doesn't remember it.

Jen - who apologizes for the Europe references in an Asia forum - I get the hell away from Asia on my vacations!