Just found out today that the "Star Alliance" has upped its FF mile requirement to get to Central Asia (ie India) from North America on Business Class. Since we are determined to go in the spring of '05, we are considering traveling to Bangkok first for a day or two (for significantly less miles) and then paying relatively cheap business class rate for the 4 hour flight to Delhi on Thai Airways.

If we do this, the itinerary would look like this:

1 or 2 days BKK Peninsula, Amari Airport (exec floor) or Marriot (for the pool, Bob!)
4 hour flight to Delhi, arriving 10:30 PM
2 full days Delhi
Delhi - Agra with driver
1 full day Agra
Agra - Jaipur with driver
2 full days Jaipur
Jaipur - Rathambore with driver
1 full day Rathambore
Rathambore - Delhi with driver
0 - 1 full days Delhi, departing midnight, again via Bangkok but arriving USA same day.

The questions are (1) is this an ok itinerary? (2) is Rathambore a reasonable drive to Dehli and (3) should we do the extra day in BKK (beginning of trip) or Delhi (end of trip) - we have previously spent 4 days in BKK but could easily find enough to do. PS, my wife loves to shop.

There is always lots to do in Bangkok!

I recommend that you NOT stay at the Amari Airport. The only reason to stay there is if you just have a few hours between flights. It's a mediocre hotel for premium prices.

You want to be in the city, along the river. Either the Pen or the Marriot (or any hotel along the river) will be great.

craig i caught that and of course agree that you should slum and try it out....

looks like a great trip....one we have wanted to do...can you squeak out any additional time there???? there is is much to do and see there....it seems your times are a bit short in each place.....have you looked at any of the fabulous old palaces to stay in for a day or two to recoup and/or regroup?? friends tell me they are lovely in themselves....

about how much would you have to pay for the thai flt to india?? have you checked to see what B/A could do for you?? also how about one of the middle east airlines??? or are you looking perhaps for total FF flying???


we are looking forward to our bali time and to your driver to make it more enjoyable for us....

bob

Kathie, we spent 2 weeks in Thailand in 2000 so we know what a great place it is. We have also stayed at the Amari Airport on the Executive Floor, once in 2000 and twice in July on the way to and from Bali. I agree that if we spend more than one night in BKK, we should stay on the river. While I'm more inclined just to take it slow, my wife wants to revisit the Grand Palace, check out the floating market and shop while there.

Bob, since we both work, we can only take 2 weeks which means about 11 full days in India if we allow a day to recuperate when we get home--better than not going at all. This time we are doing total FF miles for business class on United. The round trip flight BKK - DEL in business class on Thai Airways is about $750 on their website which translates into slightly more if I purchase through a Thai travel agent. I look forward to hearing about your next SE Asian trip when you return.

A few thoughts:

1. You say "spring" '05 for India. Be aware that after about the first week in March, Delhi and Rajasthan are very, very hot. Temps are generally above 90F and days above 100F are not unusual. It is not a good time to go to this part of India, IMO, as you will not enjoy being out in the very hot sun. More so with trying to see wildlife in Ranthambore in 100 F heat, not something you would find enjoyable, IMO. If you go in February and early March, that is OK.

2. I am not sure I would spend any time in Bangkok, as this will not help you adjust to the jet lag (Delhi is 3.5 hours behind Bangkok), and will eat into time you have in India, which is brief enough. I would just change planes in Bangkok. If your wife likes shopping, then she will LOVE the shopping in Jaipur and Delhi, add some more time there.

3. This itinerary has you moving about every second day. This may be hard to maintain and enjoy at the same time, esp. if you are travelling in April or later, as the heat will slow you down significantly in the amount you can (or want) to see each day. Travelling on your own in India is much more taxing than most people realize, and you need to pace yourself. The pollution and dust in Delhi and other large cities will affect you as well. That is another reason to cut Bangkok out of your trip and add 2 more days in India. I can't tell if the day you drive to Agra counts as your one full day, if so, I think you need at least one complete day in Agra and maybe half of another (your arrival day from Delhi).

4. One day at Ranthambore will not be enough, IMO. There are only two wildlife rides a day, one from about 6 -9 am and one from about 3-6 pm. Again, I can't tell if your drive to Ranthambore is included in your one full day. If you can arrange to arrive for a 2 pm drive, and do 2 drives the next day and the sunrise drive again on the day you depart, this would be better. For one thing, this will give you much better odds of seeing tiger.

5. Ranthambore to Delhi is an OK drive, ot would take something like 8-10 hours. (The distance is about 350 kilometres.) You might prefer a train which would take about 5-6 hours. Take a look at www.indianrail.gov.in. Indian roads are not four-lane highways like you are used to. They are 2 lanes, with lots of trucks, bullock carts, etc.

Thanks, Cicerone. Let me clarify some things to make it easier for you to advise:

1. The latest we would go is March 12 - March 26 which would include "Good Friday" a holiday for many in the USA financial services industry. Another 2 week period we are considering is in late February which would include "Presidents Day" on February 21. How cold would it be on those early morning game drives at Ranthambore in late Feb?

2. I have not yet figured a way to "just change planes" in BKK (although I am still researching it). There is only one BKK-DEL flight per day on Thai Airways. It leaves at about 8 PM. As you probably know, most arriving flights come in around midnight.

3. The India itinerary would look like this:
Day 1 arrive Delhi late
Day 2 Delhi
Day 3 Delhi
Day 4 Delhi - Agra
Day 5 Agra
Day 6 Agra - Jaipur
Day 7 Jaipur
Day 8 Jaipur
Day 9 Jaipur - Ranthambore
Day 10 Ranthambore
Day 11 Ranthambore - Delhi
Day 12 Delhi depart late
If we spent an extra day in BKK, we would skip the last day in Delhi. Does the itinerary look better as displayed here?

4. As you can see above, we should have time for the 4 drives at Ranthambore that you recommend. Is it true what I have heard that tigers are more commonly seen in March and April?

5. We are somewhat nervous about train travel - dealing with lots of luggage, purchases etc. - any advice? Once on board it would be much more pleasant and a much shorter trip than Ranthambore to Delhi by car.

Thanks again for your help!!

That itinerary looks much better, I can see you have a good bit of time in Agra and Ranthambore. I personally would really try to stay in Delhi and skip Bangkok, for shopping if for nothing else, but if it does not work logistically, then up don't have much of a choice.

I would definitely pick February over late March in terms of weather in north India. It is much more pleasant in terms of temperature, and in places like Delhi you will still have gardens in bloom for spring, i.e., the gardens of the Presidential Palace at the top of Rajpath.

February would be great for Ranthambore. It will be quite cool in the mornings, I think around the upper 40s F. If you bring gloves, a hat and a light jacket, you should be fine with a sweater underneath as well. Most hotels will supply you with a blanket to use on the jeep rides. It will warm up to a very pleasant 70 F or so as soon as the sun has been up for an hour or so.

The reason that that April is good for tigers is because it is the dry season and the animals come to the watering holes more often. However, what they don't say is that the reason it is the dry season is because it is over 95 F and often over 100F with blazing sun. . . . I just don't think I would like sitting in an open jeep in those temps, even on the morning rides. I have been to Ranthambore three times and always in early January or February, and saw tigers each time, including seeing a female and two cubs, an extremely rare sight, so it is really a matter of luck.

Indian trains are generally good, I would not be concerned. It is a bit of a pain with luggage, the same as travelling on trains in Europe where you have to lug the bags on and off trains with stairs to the platform. However, if you only take 1 or 2 trains, it is really not such a pain, and it is certainly better than driving Ranthambore-Delhi. It is a toss up whether to drive Delhi to Agra or take the train. The train may be slightly faster and would be cheaper. You don't need a driver at all in Agra, you can hire a bicycle rickshaw with driver to get around which is much more fun, IMO, and a great way to see the sights.

You will find helpful people offering to carry luggage in all train stations and airports (more offers than you actually want in fact). In a small station like Agra or Sawai Madhopur near Ranthambore, I would certainly let a porter take my bags; not sure I would do the same in a big station like Delhi.

As for flights, I assume you have looked at flying east via Europe/Middle East using miles and paying for a flight from there. For instance, if you can get to Dubai on United or a Star Alliance partner (which I believe you can with a transfer in Frankfurt), you can get to Delhi business class on Emirates airlines in 3 hours non-stop for $700 round trip (it may be cheaper, this is from Expedia which is not always the cheapest). You could also go via Kuwait. Going east to west will be easier on your jet lag as well.

Using miles to get to the Middle East may take fewer miles than going to Asia, as Asia is more poplular as a tourist destination.

Thanks, Cicerone. There is a United - Thai routing that goes thru Frankfort that cuts down the layover in BKK to about 13 hours. Going thru the Middle East is not economical with ff miles for whatever reason - it is actually just 5000 miles less than flying to India. I am going to try to persuade my wife just to head on to Dehli without spending extra time in Bangkok. We will check out the train from Ranthambore to Delhi - should be a great experience anyway.

If you opt for just the midnight to 8 pm in Bangkok, let me suggest the Rama Gardens rather than the Amari Airport. For about $75 a night, you can have a beautiful, huge room in the new wing, breakfast, and airport transportation. It's MUCH nicer than the Amari for about a third of the of price of the executive floor at the Amari. (the food in the restaurant is better, too) I always book through www.asia-hotels.com

Kathie, we actually stayed at Rama Gardens when our Thai Airways flight to Koh Samui was cancelled (courtesy of Thai Airways). I agree that it is a nice place but you can't get breakfast before 6 AM and you have to rely on the shuttle to get to the airport. Plus with the exec floor at the Amari you get separate check-in, a separate restaurant and a very nice room. The extra $125/nt for the peace-of-mind and convenience of being "right there" is worth it for us.

I guess we had different experiences at the Rama Gardens. We had breakfast before 5 am (the buffet opens at 6), and had the shuttle at our convenience to take us to the airport. At the Amari (besides that I hate the rooms, the service, etc, etc) the buffet also opened at 6 am (and was about US$16 per person!), which was suprising to me.

The key to staying at the Amari, as far as I can tell, is to stay on the Executive Floor. We had breakfast (included in price) brought to our room at 4 AM.

Looks like we will be doing a very similar trip for our honeymoon in late February. I agree with Cicerone about just "focusing" on India on this trip instead of spending too many days in Bangkok. If the wife does not agree, then maybe you can stay for 2 nights in Bangkok on your way back. I don't blame her, I go to Bangkok about every year just to shop with my sisters! But I'm sure she'll find excellent things in India as well. I always stay at the JW Marriott when in BKK and it is a lovely hotel that is excellent for shopping (the metro is 5 mins by foot) but The Peninsula is a lovely hotel with an excellent spa. Enjoy your trip and maybe we'll bump into each other as we are doing the Oberoi tour as well but going to the Maldives at the end of our trip.

Hi Craig,

I don't know if this works if you have United FF points (I have Aeroplan through Air Canada)...there is a daily non-stop flight direct from Toronto to Delhi on Air Canada (Star Alliance). For me, it's 100,000 points to fly business class to Delhi, whereas the Pacific route is 100,000 points just to Thailand or Singapore and the travel time is much longer.

SD3, I looked into the Hartford - Toronto - Delhi route - it's 120,000 points for me (only 90,000 to Thailand).

Craig,
because this is routing though Europe this may or may not be of help to you, but I thought I would add to the discussion of FF routes/miles etc to India.

I live on the West coast and have a number of miles with United but I agree that their mileage for India (Central Asia)seems excessive. It's 60,000 to Sri Lanka but 80,000 to Inida and that's in coach!

We're planning to visit some frinds in India and are thinking of going in Nov or February and here's my plan....we're going to fly to London on United, at these times of year a return from SFO-LON is often only $500. Then we'll use FF miles LON-DEL.

Star Alliance charges 60,000 in coach but if you have AA (One world) miles you can travel LON-DEL for 40,000 in coach or 60,000 in business.

This itinerary is particularly attractive to me because I can visit family in the UK.