would like some advice for my first time visit. Am interested in exploring Beijing, but am looking for some out of the way places. And would someone please comment on the Yangzte River cruises and is it worth going?<BR>thank you

First, where do you live and are you interested in highlights or indebth travel. Take a look at China Focus Travel out of San Francisco. Their website is <BR>chinafocustravel.com<BR>Review all the various itineraries and decide first where you want to go and for how long. Compare this with other tour companies; there are lots of them out there. I recommend Beijing, Xian, Yantzee River Cruise, Guilin and Shanghai as must sees. Depending on how much time you have available and how much $$$ you wish to spend....but this will give you a start on decision making. Good luck.

First, where do you live and are you interested in highlights or indebth travel. Take a look at China Focus Travel out of San Francisco. Their website is <BR>chinafocustravel.com<BR>Review all the various itineraries and decide first where you want to go and for how long. Compare this with other tour companies; there are lots of them out there. I recommend Beijing, Xian, Yantzee River Cruise, Guilin and Shanghai as must sees. Depending on how much time you have available and how much $$$ you wish to spend....but this will give you a start on decision making. And by the way, I strongly urge you to include a 3-day tour on the Yantzee. It's incredible and almost a wonder of the world. Very few of us ever get to witness this part of the world. Going so far, be sure to not skip the river. Good luck.

Nearly all of China is out of the way, it seems, as both tour groups and most independent travellers deal mostly with a checklist of heavily promoted attractions, many of which (the Yangtze trip especially) are rather dwarfed by the hype surrounding them.<BR><BR>I'd be happy to make some suggestions, since I think rural travel in China has a great deal to be said for it over urban travel, and the countryside in fact remains largely undiscovered by foreign visitors. There are also many middle-sized towns, not far from famous names, which have as much if not more to offer than their illustrious neighbours.<BR><BR>But first, how much time is available, and what's your level of comfort? Must have aircon buses? Three star hotels, probably a bit grubby, but with clean linen, all right? Basic but clean hostels, OK? Or hot and cold running everything and restaurants with English menus a requirement? Or are you prepared to rough it a bit, and what's your definition of roughing it?<BR><BR>Peter N-H<BR>http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html

There have been a few past posts related to this topics. Peter's suggestions are good regarding your comfort level, time, etc. My husband and I made a trip to Beijing and then to Chngede (smaller more rural town about 4 hour train ride away). The city was very interesting, as was the train ride back and forth. I found the Lonely Planet books very helpful in terms of getting some basic information about &quot;off the beaten path&quot; towns to visit and planned from there. Personally, I prefered something other than a large city (e.g. Shanghai) as our other stop during our trip in order to provide contrast to Beijing.<BR><BR>BTW in Chengde we managed without air-con buses, English menus, three-star accomodations, and had a blast, met local friendly people, saw very interesting temples, etc. We were pleasant surprised by our ability to navigate in a country that we previously perceived as so different from our experience (different langauge, can't read the writing, different culture, etc.) that we never thought we'd make it without a tour. Independent travel was fantastic!

Peter, it doesn't look like susan300 is jumping on your offer of suggestions, so I will! Comfort level - don't need air con buses, must be private (not shared room), clean, safe (don't require much beyond 2 twin beds and clean sheets/blankets), don't like mosquitoes buzzing around, shared clean bath is fine, really like hot water(!), don't require English menu. My sister and I are contemplating independent travel to China (we are both in our 40's and beyond shared hostel rooms). Our biggest concerns are safety and cleanliness. We prefer to travel as inexpensively as possible, however, if it means sitting on a train for hours or renting a sleeper, we'd go for the sleeper! Does this help?<BR><BR>I've enjoyed your comments thus far and am looking forward to your suggestions.

Oops! We're thinking of 3 about weeks in mid-Oct. but of course want to spend time in Beijing seeing touristy stuff and also Xian for the terra cotta soldiers. Just getting ideas right now, nothing definite. Thanks!

I strongly recommend using a tour company. Our choice was Pacific Delight. They were good about keeping you out of crowds (considering you're in China) and it included all food, hotels, everything! We went on a Victoria Cruise, which was included in the price of the tour. It was well worth the price, and we had the time of our lives. The 3 Gorges were breathtaking as were the 3 Lesser Gorges on the Daning River (a shore excursion). I strongly recommend Guilin. The highlight of our trip was the Li River cruise.

Hi, Susan and all!<BR>I just returned from three weeks in China. It was one of the greatest trips I've taken. It was fascinating, captivating, and great fun.<BR>I booked a package for $990 that included RT air from Mpls to Beijing, 8 nights hotel at the Jinglun (which I like very much), airport transfers and all taxes. I added another 10 days onto that and went to Xian and Chengde. <BR>While looking at other destinations and getting prices in advance, Peter often says that you can do much better in person. Well, prior to the trip, the best I could get online was:<BR>Overnight train to Pingyao,<BR>Overnight Train to Xian,<BR>2 nights in Xian (3*)<BR>Overnight train to Beijing<BR>Train to Chengde,<BR>5 nights in Chengde at 4*<BR>for $800.<BR>Once I arrived in Beijing, I went to the travel agency who gave me:<BR>RT air Beijing to Xian<BR>3 nights hotel in Xian, 3*<BR>Train to Chengde<BR>6 nights hotel, 4*<BR>for $400. <BR>The plane was Air China (FF miles with Northwest) and was &amp;75.00 each way. This was a deal as the flight took only 1.5 hours, and the train is near 12 as I recall. <BR>It is so easy to do on your own. I hired car/drivers for several days and really like that flexibility rather than a tour. <BR>I took a small book with the Chinese characters written in it and did very well in the more remote countryside. One of our drivers invited us into his home for a family dinner and then took us to his Grandparents home, which is located about 3 hours into the countryside where they also insisted on a meal for us. <BR>I hired a car/driver to take me north of Chengde to get off the beaten path, too, and managed to find some little villages.<BR>I am getting together a trip report with all the particulars, but, that takes a long time. <BR>email me at:<BR>[email protected] if you like. <BR>Have a wonderful time! I loved China and am planning north Vietnam/southern China for next March. <BR>Enjoy!

That sounds like a great trip, designergigi. One question. When you were invited into homes for dinner, did you take a gift? What sort of thing do you take? Was this the family of one of your private drivers or someone else? If a driver, would you just give him an extra large tip?

Zoe: Apologies for not replying to your request--I overlooked this thread, and I'm hugely tied up at the moment. But you're not leaving for several months, and I will come back with suggestions presently.<BR><BR>Peter N-H<BR>http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html

Peter - Thanks so much for your acknowledgement. We really are not interested in tours. Being whisked around on a tour bus, having my meals already decided and laid for me, not being able to linger and take my time at a museum or site when I want to - none of this is what travelling is all about for me. If other people choose a tour, that's great. I choose not to and life is all about choices. I look forward to your suggestions at your convenience.<BR><BR>Zoe