Finally going to Japan -- need help planning (and need to book soon!)
Jan 22nd, 2013, 10:39 PM
#41
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I may have to start a new thread devoted just to ryokan/onsen. Holy hell, this is a lot of information to digest! 
I really have no idea if I'm on the right track here, but I'm thinking of 2 ryokan for our trip. 1 more fancy/schmancy with an onsen and one less so in Miyajima. The one in Miyajima is an easy pick as we'll go for the same one we wanted to stay at for the last planned Japan trip. For the fancy/schmancy option, I'm considering the following -- which all should roughly be somewhere along the path of our trip:
HAKONE:
-Gora Kadan (looks beautiful--not sure we can afford it--also seems like it could be a bit "scene-y")
KYOTO/ARASHIYAMA:
-Hoshinoya (looks so magical!--but does it have an onsen? can't tell.)
KOBE:
-Arima Onsen
Any other candidates that might meet our criteria that I should add for consideration to the list above?
I do like that place you're staying at, Craig (Beniya Mukayu) but I wonder if the private onsen wouldn't be as interesting or eye-opening as the public ones. Regardless, it looks stunning.
This Flatts place does sound interesting. I can not find a thing about it on the web--except for that review. And it's not on JGH at all. Where do I get more info? Pricing?
Again, I'll say: I don't know how those of you who have planned trips to Japan have ultimately decided on where to stay. They all look so interesting and unique.
Signed,
Overwhelmed in LA
I really have no idea if I'm on the right track here, but I'm thinking of 2 ryokan for our trip. 1 more fancy/schmancy with an onsen and one less so in Miyajima. The one in Miyajima is an easy pick as we'll go for the same one we wanted to stay at for the last planned Japan trip. For the fancy/schmancy option, I'm considering the following -- which all should roughly be somewhere along the path of our trip:
HAKONE:
-Gora Kadan (looks beautiful--not sure we can afford it--also seems like it could be a bit "scene-y")
KYOTO/ARASHIYAMA:
-Hoshinoya (looks so magical!--but does it have an onsen? can't tell.)
KOBE:
-Arima Onsen
Any other candidates that might meet our criteria that I should add for consideration to the list above?
I do like that place you're staying at, Craig (Beniya Mukayu) but I wonder if the private onsen wouldn't be as interesting or eye-opening as the public ones. Regardless, it looks stunning.
This Flatts place does sound interesting. I can not find a thing about it on the web--except for that review. And it's not on JGH at all. Where do I get more info? Pricing?
Again, I'll say: I don't know how those of you who have planned trips to Japan have ultimately decided on where to stay. They all look so interesting and unique.
Signed,
Overwhelmed in LA
Jan 22nd, 2013, 10:54 PM
#42
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Flatt's has a Japanese only website that doesn't do the place justice. Also a Japanese Facebook page. It's a local favorite which is how I know it and we book guests there who go to Noto.
Hoshinoya Kyoto - magic. No onsen.
Beniya Mukayu - also has big onsen bath in addition to the private ones with the rooms.
Hoshinoya Kyoto - magic. No onsen.
Beniya Mukayu - also has big onsen bath in addition to the private ones with the rooms.
Jan 23rd, 2013, 06:18 AM
#44
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Fancyschmantzy on your list would be Gora Kadan or Beniya Mukayu and Taketoritei looks like the gem of Arima Onsen. Don't think you can go wrong with any of those three. Have never been to any of them but envy your decision. There are many and various degrees of shmantzy if you get where we are coming from.
Traditional, hotel, minshuku will all bring different experiences and prices but looks like you want the full shabang and those three places you list would do it for you.
Now to confuse you a bit......
The beauty of the Japan train systems are that they make the seemingly inaccessible accessible. You can be at a ryokan like this in a couple of hours out of Tokyo. I think I showed you this place on your last Japan plan....maybe not. This place is a traditional ryokan, friggen scenic, and not as expensive. Keyword being as. May be crowded during the peak seasons.
http://japaneseguesthouses.com/db/gunma/osenkaku.htm
This place would be a hotel ryokan steeped in tradition and another different ryokan experience. You can't go wrong here, the Emperor of Japan has stayed here.
http://japaneseguesthouses.com/db/ha...konefujiya.htm
There is a ryokan for every mood. You just have to settle on one and looks like you have
Aloha!
Traditional, hotel, minshuku will all bring different experiences and prices but looks like you want the full shabang and those three places you list would do it for you.
Now to confuse you a bit......
The beauty of the Japan train systems are that they make the seemingly inaccessible accessible. You can be at a ryokan like this in a couple of hours out of Tokyo. I think I showed you this place on your last Japan plan....maybe not. This place is a traditional ryokan, friggen scenic, and not as expensive. Keyword being as. May be crowded during the peak seasons.
http://japaneseguesthouses.com/db/gunma/osenkaku.htm
This place would be a hotel ryokan steeped in tradition and another different ryokan experience. You can't go wrong here, the Emperor of Japan has stayed here.
http://japaneseguesthouses.com/db/ha...konefujiya.htm
There is a ryokan for every mood. You just have to settle on one and looks like you have
Aloha!
Jan 23rd, 2013, 01:23 PM
#45
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I'll confuse you more. Kayotei in Yamanaka Onsen. Arai in Izu.
and then, booking in English via the ryokan's own website or using a third party booker seldom gives you the range of options for dinner choices and prices that their Japanese homepage does and you end up paying more than you should. This is frustrating but can be overcome.
and then, booking in English via the ryokan's own website or using a third party booker seldom gives you the range of options for dinner choices and prices that their Japanese homepage does and you end up paying more than you should. This is frustrating but can be overcome.
Jan 23rd, 2013, 06:53 PM
#46
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Kim, you and HT are killing me!! Stop giving me so many beautiful places to divert my attention from the already-beautiful places I was fixated on.
Okay, so first things first. I really need to figure out an order of cities.
Right now it's Tokyo > Hiroshima > Miyajima > Kyoto > Osaka
But I understand that a choice of onsen really could change that.
Big question is: is it unreasonable to make it to Hiroshima from Tokyo all in one fell swoop? Sounds like we'd waste an entire day on a train. Not sure that would work out well since that'd not really give us any time to explore HIroshima and then we'd head to Miyajima the next day. I really did like the idea of "ending" in Kyoto, but it may require an interim Kyoto stop before heading to Hiroshima, then come back again to Kyoto at the end?
Another idea is if one of these onsen is somewhere in the middle -- and we could make it there leaving Tokyo in the morning with enough time to enjoy the onsen/ryokan in an overnight stay and then leave the next day for Hiroshima.
Thoughts?
Stop giving me so many beautiful places to divert my attention from the already-beautiful places I was fixated on. Okay, so first things first. I really need to figure out an order of cities.
Right now it's Tokyo > Hiroshima > Miyajima > Kyoto > Osaka
But I understand that a choice of onsen really could change that.
Big question is: is it unreasonable to make it to Hiroshima from Tokyo all in one fell swoop? Sounds like we'd waste an entire day on a train. Not sure that would work out well since that'd not really give us any time to explore HIroshima and then we'd head to Miyajima the next day. I really did like the idea of "ending" in Kyoto, but it may require an interim Kyoto stop before heading to Hiroshima, then come back again to Kyoto at the end?
Another idea is if one of these onsen is somewhere in the middle -- and we could make it there leaving Tokyo in the morning with enough time to enjoy the onsen/ryokan in an overnight stay and then leave the next day for Hiroshima.
Thoughts?
Jan 23rd, 2013, 07:08 PM
#47
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Other questions: based on our overall itinerary, is it worth experiencing/staying overnight in Osaka the day before our flight leaves (leaves at 2:30 PM) -- so we could just go straight from Kyoto to the airport that day -- or go the day before and experience the "foodie" aspects of the city we've heard so much about.
Given that we're hitting Tokyo and Kyoto, I'm hesitant to spend another day in a city, and we could probably use that day somewhere else getting to and from a remote onsen/ryokan...but just really not sure.
Given that we're hitting Tokyo and Kyoto, I'm hesitant to spend another day in a city, and we could probably use that day somewhere else getting to and from a remote onsen/ryokan...but just really not sure.
Jan 23rd, 2013, 07:48 PM
#48
It would make a good choice either way.
But, booking that last night in Osaka does not mean that you have to spend the day in Osaka. Instead of returning from a remote spot to Kyoto you can return to Osaka, then enjoy an evening in Osaka before your flight the next day. Spending that last night in Osaka keeps your options open for what you want to do that day.
But, booking that last night in Osaka does not mean that you have to spend the day in Osaka. Instead of returning from a remote spot to Kyoto you can return to Osaka, then enjoy an evening in Osaka before your flight the next day. Spending that last night in Osaka keeps your options open for what you want to do that day.
Jan 23rd, 2013, 08:21 PM
#49
Spending that day in Osaka would be worthwhile and not just for the food. For example, Osaka castle had a significant role in Japanese history. See it for the architecture, the castle grounds (a park really), and inside is basically a nice museum (and not just arms & armor).
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e4000.html
I spent four nights in Osaka and one option for me was to visit Arima Onsen as a day trip. There is a bus between Osaka station and Arima Onsen with a schedule that is perfect for Osaka-jin to go for a soak. I chose not to make that trip but went to Spa World Osaka instead and was not disappointed.
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e4000.html
I spent four nights in Osaka and one option for me was to visit Arima Onsen as a day trip. There is a bus between Osaka station and Arima Onsen with a schedule that is perfect for Osaka-jin to go for a soak. I chose not to make that trip but went to Spa World Osaka instead and was not disappointed.
Jan 23rd, 2013, 10:24 PM
#51
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I feel like I already need to plan the 2nd trip to Japan. Geez Louise!
Seriously, though, maybe I'm dedicating too much time to the cities? Right now, Tokyo = 3 nights, Kyoto = 4 nights. Am I doing too much in one place or the other? Feels like they both warrant a decent chunk of time.
My friend from Osaka tells me that she wouldn't spend 4 nights in Kyoto--that's just too much time. Maybe I'm over-sentimentalizing Kyoto? Just seemed like the kind one place to spend a few days.
Seriously, though, maybe I'm dedicating too much time to the cities? Right now, Tokyo = 3 nights, Kyoto = 4 nights. Am I doing too much in one place or the other? Feels like they both warrant a decent chunk of time.
My friend from Osaka tells me that she wouldn't spend 4 nights in Kyoto--that's just too much time. Maybe I'm over-sentimentalizing Kyoto? Just seemed like the kind one place to spend a few days.
Jan 23rd, 2013, 11:23 PM
#52
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I recommend getting out of the big cities for at least a few days. Kyoto is indeed packed with temples and shrines to see, but there is no mistaking it for the big city that it is. Osaka, Tokyo, Hiroshima - city through and through.
You could spend all of the time you have in one place and not see everything, so you've got to pick whether you'd rather be on the move and get a taste of a few places or if you'd prefer to unpack your bag and spend your time seeing a couple of places in a more in depth way.
You don't have to spend huge money on fancy ryokan - you can stay in family run minshuku. The difference isn't authenticity at all, but the aesthetic, level of service, guest facilities, thickness of futon, uniqueness of dishes and skill of the chef.
You could spend all of the time you have in one place and not see everything, so you've got to pick whether you'd rather be on the move and get a taste of a few places or if you'd prefer to unpack your bag and spend your time seeing a couple of places in a more in depth way.
You don't have to spend huge money on fancy ryokan - you can stay in family run minshuku. The difference isn't authenticity at all, but the aesthetic, level of service, guest facilities, thickness of futon, uniqueness of dishes and skill of the chef.
Jan 24th, 2013, 06:05 AM
#53
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4 nights is just the right amount of time for a Kyoto first visit, imo 5 nights would be the perfect first time amount if you can afford it giving you flexibility.
Tokyo, Osaka, Yokohama, Nagoya, Sapporo even Fukuoka I would consider big cities. Hiroshima, Kyoto, Kagoshima etc I would rate as medium size cities. it's like comparing a NYC megalopolis to Des Moines. There are some tall buildings and 24hour 7/11's in Des Moines but it ain't no NYC.
Doesn't surprise me that your Osaka friend doesn't think much of Kyoto. There is a local pride with the city you live in. It's like the LA-San Francisco thing.....you know, if you were to call the city Frisco to a San Franciscan.... oi vay
Checking www.hyperdia.com for a mid week in April you can leave Tokyo station at 8:33a and be in Hiroshima at 1:28 pm precisely.
http://www.hyperdia.com/cgi/en/searc...d&sum_target=7
I am assuming you will be staying around the station so you would be too early to check into your hotel but you can leave your luggage there and walk(20 minute or less from station)taxi or tram to the Peace Park area and do that venue. Hiroshima-jo(castle) is a ten minute walk away and Shukkein Gardens is in the same area. Across the street in the opposite direction is the baseball stadium and the covered shopping/restaurant street you can see on your way back to your hotel. If there is a baseball game in town that night you should see it if possible. You'll never see so many rabid fans in one place at a time but these fans are courteous to a fault.....does not dullen the enthusiasm one iota. In fact you have never witnessed a baseball game like this before I guarantee you. Hint.... Japan is where the "thunder sticks" originated. Okay, I'm getting carried away a bit, sorry.
I would stay in Kyoto the last night and commute to ITM from there in the morning. How early do you have to be at ITM? Kyoto is like being in Anaheim and going to LAX but not the freeway traffic. Got to go now.....back soon.
Aloha!
Tokyo, Osaka, Yokohama, Nagoya, Sapporo even Fukuoka I would consider big cities. Hiroshima, Kyoto, Kagoshima etc I would rate as medium size cities. it's like comparing a NYC megalopolis to Des Moines. There are some tall buildings and 24hour 7/11's in Des Moines but it ain't no NYC.
Doesn't surprise me that your Osaka friend doesn't think much of Kyoto. There is a local pride with the city you live in. It's like the LA-San Francisco thing.....you know, if you were to call the city Frisco to a San Franciscan.... oi vay
Checking www.hyperdia.com for a mid week in April you can leave Tokyo station at 8:33a and be in Hiroshima at 1:28 pm precisely.
http://www.hyperdia.com/cgi/en/searc...d&sum_target=7
I am assuming you will be staying around the station so you would be too early to check into your hotel but you can leave your luggage there and walk(20 minute or less from station)taxi or tram to the Peace Park area and do that venue. Hiroshima-jo(castle) is a ten minute walk away and Shukkein Gardens is in the same area. Across the street in the opposite direction is the baseball stadium and the covered shopping/restaurant street you can see on your way back to your hotel. If there is a baseball game in town that night you should see it if possible. You'll never see so many rabid fans in one place at a time but these fans are courteous to a fault.....does not dullen the enthusiasm one iota. In fact you have never witnessed a baseball game like this before I guarantee you. Hint.... Japan is where the "thunder sticks" originated. Okay, I'm getting carried away a bit, sorry.
I would stay in Kyoto the last night and commute to ITM from there in the morning. How early do you have to be at ITM? Kyoto is like being in Anaheim and going to LAX but not the freeway traffic. Got to go now.....back soon.
Aloha!
Jan 24th, 2013, 08:29 AM
#54
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Ok, took a little more time to read what you wrote and see you are leaving at 2:30pm and also are considering another venue before you leave. Koyasan?
No imho you are not over-sentimentalizing Kyoto. It may very well be the highlight of your trip as it is to most.
Mrwunrfl is right about either way is fine. Staying in Osaka would be closer. How heavily(bags) do you travel? If you do pick to overnight in Osaka, hit this area hard for your foodie aspect and shopping too. Above ground(Dotombori) and underground(Namba Walks) will simply amaze you.....does it for me every time.
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e4001.html
You can't see and experience it all in 11 days no matter how good the plan is so may I suggest that what I see on your plate NOW will give you a good first taste and go with that as it will give you a lot to plan about as you are now seeing. Japan ain't going anywhere soon so you can return if you feel the pull. Also has any Japan traveler noticed the falling yen? It's fallen from 75 yen to $ to now the 90 yen mark. If you read the financials the bet is it will be hovering around 100 yen per $ by mid year so maybe a 25% discount on all your money spent?
You haven't been during cherry blossoms season yet which I liken to "Japan on steroids"
Aloha!
No imho you are not over-sentimentalizing Kyoto. It may very well be the highlight of your trip as it is to most.
Mrwunrfl is right about either way is fine. Staying in Osaka would be closer. How heavily(bags) do you travel? If you do pick to overnight in Osaka, hit this area hard for your foodie aspect and shopping too. Above ground(Dotombori) and underground(Namba Walks) will simply amaze you.....does it for me every time.
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e4001.html
You can't see and experience it all in 11 days no matter how good the plan is so may I suggest that what I see on your plate NOW will give you a good first taste and go with that as it will give you a lot to plan about as you are now seeing. Japan ain't going anywhere soon so you can return if you feel the pull. Also has any Japan traveler noticed the falling yen? It's fallen from 75 yen to $ to now the 90 yen mark. If you read the financials the bet is it will be hovering around 100 yen per $ by mid year so maybe a 25% discount on all your money spent?
You haven't been during cherry blossoms season yet which I liken to "Japan on steroids"
Aloha!
Jan 24th, 2013, 01:30 PM
#55
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ht said: "Also has any Japan traveler noticed the falling yen? .....by mid year so maybe a 25% discount on all your money spent?"
lol....Sakura in bloom and a favorable ¥/$ exchange rate, what more could a Japan [budget] traveler want..
lol....Sakura in bloom and a favorable ¥/$ exchange rate, what more could a Japan [budget] traveler want..
Jan 26th, 2013, 09:57 AM
#57
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So I've taken everyone's advice into consideration and am getting closer to nailing down an ideal order of cities. Right now, I'm here:
Nov 15 Arrive Tokyo (ANA Intercontinental)
Nov 16 Tokyo
Nov 17 Tokyo
Nov 18 Hakone (Gora Kadan)
Nov 19 Hiroshima (Hotel TBD)
Nov 20 Miyajima (Momiji-so)
Nov 21 Kyoto (Hyatt Regency)
Nov 22 Kyoto
Nov 23 Kyoto
Nov 24 Kyoto/Nara day trip
Nov 25 Osaka (Hotel TBD)
Nov 26 Depart for LAX
The one issue still continues to be Hiroshima and how to get there and still be able to see the city in the time I'd have left that day. If I left there from Tokyo, this was an issue--even moreso from Hakone. Looking at train schedules, the earliest I could hope to arrive is 2:30 that day, but that supposes that I'd want to leave Hakone on an 8 AM train (thus not being able to relax and enjoy that morning.) So even if I did that and arrived at 2:30 that's not much time to get rid of our bags and see the sights of the city before sundown. Just feels super, super rushed.
Any suggestions of how to deal with that snafu ... and still maintain our overall itinerary?
Nov 15 Arrive Tokyo (ANA Intercontinental)
Nov 16 Tokyo
Nov 17 Tokyo
Nov 18 Hakone (Gora Kadan)
Nov 19 Hiroshima (Hotel TBD)
Nov 20 Miyajima (Momiji-so)
Nov 21 Kyoto (Hyatt Regency)
Nov 22 Kyoto
Nov 23 Kyoto
Nov 24 Kyoto/Nara day trip
Nov 25 Osaka (Hotel TBD)
Nov 26 Depart for LAX
The one issue still continues to be Hiroshima and how to get there and still be able to see the city in the time I'd have left that day. If I left there from Tokyo, this was an issue--even moreso from Hakone. Looking at train schedules, the earliest I could hope to arrive is 2:30 that day, but that supposes that I'd want to leave Hakone on an 8 AM train (thus not being able to relax and enjoy that morning.) So even if I did that and arrived at 2:30 that's not much time to get rid of our bags and see the sights of the city before sundown. Just feels super, super rushed.
Any suggestions of how to deal with that snafu ... and still maintain our overall itinerary?
Jan 26th, 2013, 12:03 PM
#59
um, you could move Kyoto before Hiroshima
One thing you can do for your departure from Hakone is to look for a Hikari train that goes through to Kyoto or Shin Osaka. Most itineraries at hyperdia will probably show connections (e.g. Kodama train from Odawara to Nagoya and then a Hikari train).
If you don't use a JR Pass then you would want a Hikari train to Nagoya and then transfer to a Nozomi.
One thing you can do for your departure from Hakone is to look for a Hikari train that goes through to Kyoto or Shin Osaka. Most itineraries at hyperdia will probably show connections (e.g. Kodama train from Odawara to Nagoya and then a Hikari train).
If you don't use a JR Pass then you would want a Hikari train to Nagoya and then transfer to a Nozomi.
Jan 26th, 2013, 12:14 PM
#60
Or, Odawara to Shin Yokohama for a Nozomi might be better Nagoya
I think it is the Hinoki room in the back of Momijiso that overlooks the stream and woods.
I recommend the Rihga Royal in Hiroshima. It is in the city. Easy walk to the Peace Park and practically next door to the Carp baseball stadium, not far from the castle. The Sheraton is next to Hiroshima station on the shinkansen side. The Granvia is even closer to the shinkansen tracks but not as nice, imo. It would be a short walk across the station to get the local that you would use for Miyajima.
I think it is the Hinoki room in the back of Momijiso that overlooks the stream and woods.
I recommend the Rihga Royal in Hiroshima. It is in the city. Easy walk to the Peace Park and practically next door to the Carp baseball stadium, not far from the castle. The Sheraton is next to Hiroshima station on the shinkansen side. The Granvia is even closer to the shinkansen tracks but not as nice, imo. It would be a short walk across the station to get the local that you would use for Miyajima.
