Early planning for yet another "second trip" to Japan
Jul 24th, 2015, 10:57 AM
#21
Having two one-nighters in a row is not much of a concern, imo, when it is at/near the beginning of the trip.
Your itin will give you a variety of experiences of Japan which seems to be your primary goal. It is a good goal, imo, and adding time to Kyoto does not help with that. Adding Noto is a good idea except that the time there would come from somewhere else.
russ_in_LA gave you some great advice about the Shibu thru Kanazawa part of your plan.
>>Or maybe Lake Kawaguchi as a day trip from Tokyo?
Yes. I have not been there but would not overnight there given the rest of your itinerary. Besides, it could be in clouds and you won't get a view. You could keep it as an optional day-trip ... weather/conditions permitting!
You could scratch Matsumoto as you are planning to visit Himeji-jo, but that would be a difficult decision depending on your interest in castles. That would remove any concern about two 1-nighters in a row.
Your itin will give you a variety of experiences of Japan which seems to be your primary goal. It is a good goal, imo, and adding time to Kyoto does not help with that. Adding Noto is a good idea except that the time there would come from somewhere else.
russ_in_LA gave you some great advice about the Shibu thru Kanazawa part of your plan.
>>Or maybe Lake Kawaguchi as a day trip from Tokyo?
Yes. I have not been there but would not overnight there given the rest of your itinerary. Besides, it could be in clouds and you won't get a view. You could keep it as an optional day-trip ... weather/conditions permitting!
You could scratch Matsumoto as you are planning to visit Himeji-jo, but that would be a difficult decision depending on your interest in castles. That would remove any concern about two 1-nighters in a row.
Jul 24th, 2015, 11:15 AM
#22
I have an idea that might be too much or might work. Leave Tokyo and visit Himeji during the day then spend that night in Nagano. Visit Zenko-ji in Nagano the next morning then have a short/easy trip to Shibu Onsen.
I remember the train ride from Matsumoto to Nagano as being quite scenic as it approached Nagano, so would advise doing that trip during daylight, but not at the expense of cutting your time short in Himeji.
Definitely consider visiting Zenko-ji.
I remember the train ride from Matsumoto to Nagano as being quite scenic as it approached Nagano, so would advise doing that trip during daylight, but not at the expense of cutting your time short in Himeji.
Definitely consider visiting Zenko-ji.
Jul 24th, 2015, 05:15 PM
#23
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We hit Zenko-ji on the advice of mrwunrfl and thought it very worthwhile. The only change I would have made would have been to stow luggage at Nagano station and taxi to Zenko-ji, then taxi back and take the Snow Monkey Express to Yudanaka from Nagano Station. This would have saved us lugging our bags around as well as having to take the slow local train to Yudanka, with a connection on the way.
I agree that our two 1 nights in a row early in the trip were not a problem, especially with the forwarding of luggage, but the second two one nighters at the end was tiring, in part because it was cold and rainy in Matsumoto. We enjoyed seeing the castle in Matsumoto, but it was a bit anticlimatic after Himeji. Better I think to see Matsumoto first.
I agree that our two 1 nights in a row early in the trip were not a problem, especially with the forwarding of luggage, but the second two one nighters at the end was tiring, in part because it was cold and rainy in Matsumoto. We enjoyed seeing the castle in Matsumoto, but it was a bit anticlimatic after Himeji. Better I think to see Matsumoto first.
Jul 25th, 2015, 10:26 PM
#24
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"Your itin will give you a variety of experiences of Japan which seems to be your primary goal. It is a good goal, imo, and adding time to Kyoto does not help with that."
I think mrwunrfl has identified some outstanding options for you. And you have other options, too, that depend on what you do with your time in Kyoto. As already mentioned, your could visit Himeji from Kyoto, or Osaka, or other places that would add to the diversity of your experiences while affording the option to explore Kyoto / Nara further <b><u>if</b></u> you want to. Options from Kyoto that don't seem to have been mentioned already include the Miho Museum, Ohara, Uji... And even in Kyoto itself, it isn't all about temples -- there are shrines and gardens and craft centers and palaces and pleasure districts and vibrant centers of current life.... Just something to consider.
I think mrwunrfl has identified some outstanding options for you. And you have other options, too, that depend on what you do with your time in Kyoto. As already mentioned, your could visit Himeji from Kyoto, or Osaka, or other places that would add to the diversity of your experiences while affording the option to explore Kyoto / Nara further <b><u>if</b></u> you want to. Options from Kyoto that don't seem to have been mentioned already include the Miho Museum, Ohara, Uji... And even in Kyoto itself, it isn't all about temples -- there are shrines and gardens and craft centers and palaces and pleasure districts and vibrant centers of current life.... Just something to consider.
Jul 26th, 2015, 04:15 AM
#25
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As always, I really appreciate the advice and suggestions. I will sketch out a couple of alternatives for the first 2/3 of the trip based on the input so far. We do have one night reserved in Kyosan (Shojoshin-in) and 4 nights in Kyoto (Mume) at the end of the trip. I'll keep fiddling with the middle section based on more reading and more input from my Fodor friends.
Jul 26th, 2015, 05:04 PM
#26
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You have a whole team of seasoned experts to help. So I will just add this:
when we did our trip, I decided to have us start in Kyoto and finish in Tokyo, departing from Haneda airport. Haneda is a snap to get to from downtown Tokyo. So in lieu of an overnight near Osaka airport (yawn), you could have a night in Tokyo.
Otherwise, if you prefer to do it in the order you have, I am a little concerned: it seems you are stepping off the plane in Tokyo and heading immediately to Lake Kawaguchi - or have I misunderstood?
when we did our trip, I decided to have us start in Kyoto and finish in Tokyo, departing from Haneda airport. Haneda is a snap to get to from downtown Tokyo. So in lieu of an overnight near Osaka airport (yawn), you could have a night in Tokyo.
Otherwise, if you prefer to do it in the order you have, I am a little concerned: it seems you are stepping off the plane in Tokyo and heading immediately to Lake Kawaguchi - or have I misunderstood?
Jul 27th, 2015, 02:22 AM
#27
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Sue, thanks for your concern! No, we plan to spend at least 2 days in Tokyo at the beginning, I didn't include them in the questions I threw out there. We really enjoyed our few days in Tokyo last June but there were many things we felt we missed so we want to spend more time there on this trip. I like the idea of being in Tokyo at the beginning because we will be familiar with getting around. Unfortunately, We can only fly into NRT. And I'm thinking about eliminating lake kawaguchi as an overnight or maybe only doing a day trip.
On our last night, I'm thinking we will spend pretty much the whole day in Kyoto and just get to an Osaka airport hotel for sleeping, we have a domestic flight to NRT very early, then home.
On our last night, I'm thinking we will spend pretty much the whole day in Kyoto and just get to an Osaka airport hotel for sleeping, we have a domestic flight to NRT very early, then home.
Jul 27th, 2015, 04:12 AM
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Ah, now I see.
re Hida no Sato. The really interesting part for me was learning about the incredibly hard life of rural Japan, prior to universal electricity. This is the downside of S-go; it is 'working' but it is also modernized. In HNS, I let my imagination wander. It was also a day off from (long-distance) buses and trains (we splurged on a taxi, all of maybe $10, walked to the nearby art gallery for lunch, and took the public bus back.)
I am very interested in your Lake Kawaguchi puzzle. Like you I have often wondered - how to do it as a day trip. One possibility: Overnight in Mishima, rent a car, drive (it's only an hour and a quarter to Lake K.)
If you are laughing hysterically at the idea of driving (and I admit, I am too - not to mention a one day rental could be quite expensive, and parking difficult during a festival) here's the website showing access:
http://www.shibazakura.jp/eng/access/
The main headache is to avoid a weekend, when I suspect buses and trains will be packed. Reservations will be a must at the JR office as soon as you touch down. If you plan it as a day trip and it falls through, well, there are always other things to do in Tokyo as you mentioned.
re Hida no Sato. The really interesting part for me was learning about the incredibly hard life of rural Japan, prior to universal electricity. This is the downside of S-go; it is 'working' but it is also modernized. In HNS, I let my imagination wander. It was also a day off from (long-distance) buses and trains (we splurged on a taxi, all of maybe $10, walked to the nearby art gallery for lunch, and took the public bus back.)
I am very interested in your Lake Kawaguchi puzzle. Like you I have often wondered - how to do it as a day trip. One possibility: Overnight in Mishima, rent a car, drive (it's only an hour and a quarter to Lake K.)
If you are laughing hysterically at the idea of driving (and I admit, I am too - not to mention a one day rental could be quite expensive, and parking difficult during a festival) here's the website showing access:
http://www.shibazakura.jp/eng/access/
The main headache is to avoid a weekend, when I suspect buses and trains will be packed. Reservations will be a must at the JR office as soon as you touch down. If you plan it as a day trip and it falls through, well, there are always other things to do in Tokyo as you mentioned.
Jul 27th, 2015, 09:35 AM
#30
>>MrW, just reread your post, you meant visit Matsumoto during the day, then spend the night in Nagano and visit Zenko-Ji?
Yes, that's the idea. It is an option.
Overnighting in Matsumoto makes that day easier. Your luggage spends its time in a Matsumoto hotel room and next day in a coin locker at Nagano station if you decide to visit Zenkoji.
Overnighting in Nagano makes the next day easier. Your luggage spends its time in Matsumoto in a coin locker, night and next morning at a Nagano hotel.
Shinjuku- Matsumoto is 151 min on a Super Azusa L'Ex
Kawaguchiko- Matsumoto is 163 min with one change at Otsuki from the Fukikyu train to an Axusa L'Ex
Matsumoto- Nagano is 51 minutes on a Shinano L'Ex.
So, travel time is about 3.5 hours, maybe a bit more. Call it 4 hours.
I would consider not booking that night's hotel room in advance. JR Matsumoto station is big enough to have a travel agent that could book the night in Matsumoto or Nagano. I arrived in Matsumoto by bus and had a choice of hotels that were very nearby, within a block IIRC.
These are options that I would consider but maybe it is just complicating your plan instead of helping. Skipping Matsumoto is another option, mentioned above, if you are visiting Himeji-jo.
Yes, that's the idea. It is an option.
Overnighting in Matsumoto makes that day easier. Your luggage spends its time in a Matsumoto hotel room and next day in a coin locker at Nagano station if you decide to visit Zenkoji.
Overnighting in Nagano makes the next day easier. Your luggage spends its time in Matsumoto in a coin locker, night and next morning at a Nagano hotel.
Shinjuku- Matsumoto is 151 min on a Super Azusa L'Ex
Kawaguchiko- Matsumoto is 163 min with one change at Otsuki from the Fukikyu train to an Axusa L'Ex
Matsumoto- Nagano is 51 minutes on a Shinano L'Ex.
So, travel time is about 3.5 hours, maybe a bit more. Call it 4 hours.
I would consider not booking that night's hotel room in advance. JR Matsumoto station is big enough to have a travel agent that could book the night in Matsumoto or Nagano. I arrived in Matsumoto by bus and had a choice of hotels that were very nearby, within a block IIRC.
These are options that I would consider but maybe it is just complicating your plan instead of helping. Skipping Matsumoto is another option, mentioned above, if you are visiting Himeji-jo.
Jul 27th, 2015, 09:47 AM
#31
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MrW - - I'll have to look into that 163 min option, thanks. I have to turn this over in my mind - - whether to try again for a glimpse of Fuji-san or put in an extra day elsewhere. We were so disappointed last year but at least the ryokan made up for some of it.
I did read about the moss festival in Lake Kawaguchiko in May, which is what made me think about going to that area again, but I haven't gotten any feedback about it so I am wondering if the reality is anything like the pictures on Japan guide.
I did read about the moss festival in Lake Kawaguchiko in May, which is what made me think about going to that area again, but I haven't gotten any feedback about it so I am wondering if the reality is anything like the pictures on Japan guide.
Jul 27th, 2015, 01:37 PM
#32
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Warm, early morning greetings from our fine home of Singapore to the OP, FromDC; glad you are returning to Japan. Love that country for work and the occasionally brief holiday.
Not much to add to the kind suggestions you have already received, as most of my Japan trips are business related and consist largely of hotels, office buildings and the Haneda and Narita airports. Did notice on your profile page that your favourite hotel is a property I have cherished from childhood, the Mandarin Oriental, Bangkok. With that, will suggest one of her sublime sisters, the MO, Tokyo. Had the priviledge of an extended Tokyo business travel stay with her in March / April of '14. Such gracious service and a particularly memorable "Deluxe Corner Room" on her 36th floor. Would be honoured to suggest other Tokyo lodgings I've experienced during business trips and the occasional weekend rendezvous.
[Regarding your (FromDC) profile page, noticed we also share an appreciation of Australia and New Zealand. Concerning your destination wish-list of Bhutan, we recently (earlier this month) experienced a truly special time in that region. Perfect conclusion to our reunion and assistance week in Nepal. Will eventually post some brief reviews on my profile page.]
Appears you are sorted with flights; if not, pleased to offer suggestions for an airline I'm flying for work today, our good old Singapore Airlines.
Savour your planning, DC; should be another fine Japanese journey. Warm Tuesday wishes to you and all from Singapore,
robert
... Singapore Girl, You're a Great Way to Fly ...
Not much to add to the kind suggestions you have already received, as most of my Japan trips are business related and consist largely of hotels, office buildings and the Haneda and Narita airports. Did notice on your profile page that your favourite hotel is a property I have cherished from childhood, the Mandarin Oriental, Bangkok. With that, will suggest one of her sublime sisters, the MO, Tokyo. Had the priviledge of an extended Tokyo business travel stay with her in March / April of '14. Such gracious service and a particularly memorable "Deluxe Corner Room" on her 36th floor. Would be honoured to suggest other Tokyo lodgings I've experienced during business trips and the occasional weekend rendezvous.
[Regarding your (FromDC) profile page, noticed we also share an appreciation of Australia and New Zealand. Concerning your destination wish-list of Bhutan, we recently (earlier this month) experienced a truly special time in that region. Perfect conclusion to our reunion and assistance week in Nepal. Will eventually post some brief reviews on my profile page.]
Appears you are sorted with flights; if not, pleased to offer suggestions for an airline I'm flying for work today, our good old Singapore Airlines.
Savour your planning, DC; should be another fine Japanese journey. Warm Tuesday wishes to you and all from Singapore,
robert
... Singapore Girl, You're a Great Way to Fly ...
Jul 28th, 2015, 05:51 AM
#33
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"whether to try again for a glimpse of Fuji-san or put in an extra day elsewhere."
DC, you probably know about this, but here goes: if you just want a glimpse, you could always figure in a shinkansen journey that takes you near Odawara and Mishima - sit in the D/E seats, you have a good 15 minutes total to see Fuji. Okay, so the mountain is in the distance, the time overall is short, but on the other hand, you haven't expended any particular energy or time to see it in the event it is clouded over. Which, as you found out, is apt to happen.
DC, you probably know about this, but here goes: if you just want a glimpse, you could always figure in a shinkansen journey that takes you near Odawara and Mishima - sit in the D/E seats, you have a good 15 minutes total to see Fuji. Okay, so the mountain is in the distance, the time overall is short, but on the other hand, you haven't expended any particular energy or time to see it in the event it is clouded over. Which, as you found out, is apt to happen.
Jul 28th, 2015, 05:30 PM
#34
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Sue_xx_yy wrote: "re Hida no Sato. The really interesting part for me was learning about the incredibly hard life of rural Japan, prior to universal electricity. This is the downside of S-go; it is 'working' but it is also modernized."
Interesting point! Thanks.
Interesting point! Thanks.
Jul 29th, 2015, 02:38 AM
#36
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Robert, th las for the input. We are thinking about the MO in Tokyo, we stayed at the Shangrila last trip on a one free night package. Hoping to hear about your Bhutan adventure. Sue, thanks for the tip about the train, hadn't thought about that.
Jul 29th, 2015, 04:19 AM
#37
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"Sue_xx_yy, when you visited Shirakawago was it a pass-through, day trip from somewhere, or an overnight?"
Mr. wunrfl, stop, stop! Mercy! Put down the samurai sword!
I have erred, and most grievously. I should not have inflamed any kind of debate as my observations were and are, based on incomplete experience; I stated that disclaimer at the start, and then succumbed to the temptation to speculate on the basis of actual experience in only HNS, and only photographic 'experience' of S-go. I could have, and should have, confined my remarks to saying that choices can be difficult, when one is pressed for time, and when necessary, one can use one's imagination to compensate, when choices must be made. While I maintain I was correct in principle, I was completely wrong to use the comparison that I did as an example. I got carried away, and not to a wise place. Please, mercy wunrfl-san.
Mr. wunrfl, stop, stop! Mercy! Put down the samurai sword!
I have erred, and most grievously. I should not have inflamed any kind of debate as my observations were and are, based on incomplete experience; I stated that disclaimer at the start, and then succumbed to the temptation to speculate on the basis of actual experience in only HNS, and only photographic 'experience' of S-go. I could have, and should have, confined my remarks to saying that choices can be difficult, when one is pressed for time, and when necessary, one can use one's imagination to compensate, when choices must be made. While I maintain I was correct in principle, I was completely wrong to use the comparison that I did as an example. I got carried away, and not to a wise place. Please, mercy wunrfl-san.
Jul 29th, 2015, 09:13 AM
#38
Sue_xx_yy, you are right that S-go is modernized. It is because the village is alive. People live there and want indoor plumbing, electricity, and paved roads. Visit the village and then take the footbridge to cross the river to the open-air museum. Then the shuttle from there to the viewpoint. HNS is not alive. It is a very nice museum collection of buildings from around the region. You won't meet any proud owners of a gassho zukuri and their family at HNS.
I couldn't fit S-go into my plan the first time that I visited that region, so I saw HNS and it was better than I expected. I was headed east from Takayama to Kamikochi and Matsumoto. The OP is headed in the opposite direction to Kanazawa. Going by bus with stop in Ogimachi, Shirakawago, fits extremely well. I recommend staying the night.
I couldn't fit S-go into my plan the first time that I visited that region, so I saw HNS and it was better than I expected. I was headed east from Takayama to Kamikochi and Matsumoto. The OP is headed in the opposite direction to Kanazawa. Going by bus with stop in Ogimachi, Shirakawago, fits extremely well. I recommend staying the night.
Jul 29th, 2015, 10:12 AM
#40
> ... choices can be difficult ...
I agree with you again Sue_xx_yy.
Another option to choose from that has not been mentioned is Gokayama. http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e5950.html
I agree with you again Sue_xx_yy.
Another option to choose from that has not been mentioned is Gokayama. http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e5950.html
