Hello all - this is my first fodors post. I was hoping some of you seasoned Thai travelers can critique my 17 day itinerary for Thailand in July 2007 (first time trip):

Days 1,2: Travel to Bangkok.

Days 3, 4, 5: Bangkok (day 3 at leisure; day 4 landmark tour (incl. Royal Grand Palace, Emerald Buddha, Wat Pho, Marble Temple, Wat Trimitr, Vimanmek Mansion) and dinner cruise; day 5 tour of floating market/crocodile farm/rose garden)

Day 6: Fly to Chiang Rei (balance of day at leisure)

Days 7, 8: Chiang Rei (day 7 Chaiangsaen & Golden Triangle tour; day 8 Doi Mae Salong & Santikiri Village tour)

Day 9: Morning drive to Chiang Mei (balance of day at leisure)

Days 10: Chiang Mei (1/2 day Chiang Mai City & Temple Tour; balance of day at leisure)

Day 11: Fly to Bangkok and drive to Hua Hin

Days 12-15: Hua Hin (day 12 Hua Hin by night tour; day 14 River Kwai & Elephants tour) Rest of days at leisure.

Day 16: Afternoon drive to Bangkok

Day 17: Early flight home

Also, here are my potential hotel choices. We are looking for honeymoon-type luxury rooms (any input, good or bad, would be helpful!)

Bangkok - The Oriental
Chaing Rai - The Legend Resort (1 bed river villa w/pool)
Chaing Mai - Four Seasons (Rice Terrace View Pavilion)
Hua Hin - Wora Bura Resort (1 bed villa)
Bangkok (last night) - Amari Airport Hotel (our flight is at 6am the next day)

THANKS!
Anne

Note that certainly by July 2007 the new bangkok airport will be open and the Amari will be far, far away from the new airport.

From your itinerary, it looks like you are doing group tours in various places. Personally, I find group tours deadly, so always recommend against them. You know what you like. If you like group tours, fine, if not, you can hire a driver (or guide) to facilitate your sightseeing or can go it alone.

Your day 5 incudes the floating market which people either love or hate (personally, I wouldn't waste the time) and the crocodile farm and rose garden which are very touristy. I don't know that I've ever heard someone say they were glad they went to those two places. If you are really interested in the Floating Market, go, but give yourself the afternoon to explore Bangkok. Your really don't have much time in Bangkok which has many, many things to see and do.

I'd suggest you choose either Chaing Mai or Chaing Rai, not both. You really don't have much time either place and you'll spend a lot of time in transit. If you opt for Chaing Rai/Golden Triangle I'd suggest the Anantara at the Golden Triangle. If you opt for Chaing Mai, do realize that the Four Seasons is way out of town. You are payng a lot to stay there, so do you really want to spend one afternoon at the resort and the rest of the time driving around? If you are interested in Chaing Mai, stay in town.

From Hua Hin, the River Kwai is a very long day trip. If you are really interested in the River Kwai, go, otherwise, cross it off your list. You'll spend almost all of your day in a car. I also can't imagine doing a "Hua Hin by night" tour. Relax and enjoy your time in Hua Hin. You don't need a tour to find a club with live music or a nice bar or restaurant.

General comments: your plan has you spending way too much time in a car; the group tours are unnecessary and will likely detract from your enjoyment, you have too much scheduled. Some of your best expereinces will not have been scheduled in advance, but are things that happen when you allow yourself to be in a new place.

Kathie,

Thanks for the great input! I also don't like "group tours." I thought the "tours" I found on the internet (as stated in my post) were individual, private tours (ie: myself, my fiancé, and a guide). That said, I am not tied to them by any means. I just thought it would be a good way to see things when we don't know where we're going. Is it possible to do Thailand completely "on your own" w/o guides? We are very willing to do so if it is not too difficult/stressful.

As for Chiang Rei and Chaing Mai - which do you suggest? It would be fine for us to do just one. Less bouncing around hotels is always more relaxing anyway.

I'll definitely cross off the rose garden and crocodile farm in Bangkok, as well as the Hua Hin night tour. Maybe we'll take in the floating market on our own. Still debating on the River Kwai (we are kind of history buffs...)

Thanks for the tip on the new airport - didn't know they were building one.

Thanks again!
Anne

It's certainly very possible to do Thailand without any guide. Some people like a guide for particular things. If you want a guide, hire a private guide from among those recommended often here. (The internet booked tours generally are MUCH more expensive.) Another option is to hire a driver for some things. In Bangkok, I don't hire a driver, I use a combination of public transport and taxis, but some people on this board love having a driver. Your choice. You will need a driver to get to the Floating market.

Personally, I loved the Golden Triangle area and would tend to choose it over Chaing Mai. The Anantara is a stunning property! However, Chaing Mai has good shopping and Doi Suthep is a beautiful wat, so it depends on what you are interested in. I will be in CM in November and chose the Yaang Come Village for my stay.

There have been lots of recent posts about the new Bangkok airport here. Do a search. It's supposed to open Sept. 28th.

Hi, annemrhodes!

An interesting, and ambitious, itinerary you shared with us. You'll certainly see a lot.

As previously mentioned, by the time of your visit to Bangkok the new airport may be opened in a different part of town; thus one needs to have lodging at a new hotel near the new airport. If planning on your own, check out the Sawadee.com website for the Bangkok New Airport. Otherwise, work through your tour operator or agent.

With regard to taking or being on day tours, feel free to disregard the callous remarks of the previous poster. Many experienced travelers, unfortunately, seem to forget what it was like when visiting a new locale for the first time.

After all, you are a first time visitor to Thailand and your first priority is to see and do things in a pleasant environment. You certainly can see and do a lot of things in a group on a tour, plus you obtain the benefit of the guide's commentary. I myself do it on occasion.

Believe me: you do not need to walk around all alone all day long by yourself simply because an experienced person feels you should do that.

After all, this is YOUR vacation & you've a right to enjoy it. It is NOT an endurance contest.

Wherever your travels take you, do enjoy yourself and let us know how you made out. Bon voyage.

I was thinking along the same lines that Kathie already wrote.

We've done an organized tour, had a private driver, and been entirely on our own in Bangkok. The organized tour, though it was just us (so private), was a set itinerary and a set price per person. We booked it through the concierge at the Peninsula. On the flyer, it looked good. The reality was we were rushed through every site we went to, even skipped one place because our guide told us it was closed (turned out it wasn't). At the end, we were finished well before the published finish time (no surprise, as we were rushed through Wat Arun, had a klong tour at breakneck speed, rushed through the market and the Grand Palace). At the end, we were brought to some horrible government (?) shop to buy overpriced necklaces and silk...we bought nothing and the guide was visibly angry.

Upon return to the Peninsula, I complained to the concierge about the skipped Royal Barge Museum, the speed of the tour and the forced shopping stop. We were refunded all of our money right away, and we in turn booked a car for the next day to go to Ayuthaya.

That was the best thing we could have done. The driver, while not a tour guide, was friendly and knew a lot that he shared with us. We went at our pace, stopped where we wanted to stop, and nowhere else. We had a fantastic lunch together with him at a little local place...he ordered for us and ate with us, and the cost was under US $10.00 for the 4 of us.

We also took the same car and driver to the floating market and loved it...we got there very early, well before the tour bus crowds, and really enjoyed it. While there, we took a boat through the klongs there and it was beautiful and very interesting. The Rose Garden and Crocodile farm are really tour bus destinations that even our driver discouraged us from visiting.

We've also been on our own, and though it is not difficult to navigate on your own, it is far easier to leave the navigation up to someone else.

Next trip (our 5th), we will very likely hire Tong to be our tour guide. Having a guide is a step beyond having a driver, and from the recent reports, Tong is outstanding and can really help make your trip special. You might do a search on her name here. Most recently, offwego posted a report of her time in Bangkok with Tong. Definitely read that.

I don't know whether you have booked group tours or a private guide. I would strongly recommend a private guide over a group tour, or even an organized private tour.

Why? Because a private guide can and will take you places not included on an organized tour, whether it's private or group. A private guide will certainly make recommendations for you, but will also customize the day to be exactly what you want. You will also have the flexibility to change your plan midway if you see something that strikes your interest. You will not be brought to any shops you don't want to go to.

Also, we found that it was less expensive for us to have a private car than for the 3 of us (one child) to go on a tour. Given that, and that we enjoyed the flexibility of the private arrangement, we'd never take an organized tour again.

<<Believe me: you do not need to walk around all alone all day long by yourself simply because an experienced person feels you should do that.>>

I don't see anywhere that Kathie sugests that they walk around all day! She certainly qualifies as the "seasoned traveler" the OP has asked for, and has given some excellent tips for a first timer.

Public transport, taxis, private drivers, or drivers with guides are all easy wasy to get around Bangkok without having to resort to signing up for a group tour, especially since the OP also indicated they don't like group tours.

Group tours are not always a bad way to go; just that there are much better ways to "see" Bangkok.

I have never hired a driver for the day in Bankok, but may do this next time. On previous trips, we found a combination of the skytrain, subway, and taxis got us to our destinations quickly and on our schedule.

easywalker, that was a very unfair remark. Kathie has been incredibly helpful to lots of people on this post and has shared plenty of her experiences. Her remarks could not possibly be interpreted as callous. She simply shared what she does but left the options open to annemrhodes to make a personal decision.
Kim, not sure when you did that tour but I was in Bangkok last month and on one day we shlepped to the Barge Museum only to find that all the barges were somewhere else being renovated! LOL! We got lots of good suggestions from you too for which we are grateful. That's what this post is about...getting help from others and giving it where we can. Cheers!

I think you have planned too much for day 4. After doing the Grand Palace, Emerald Buddha, and Wat Po - you'll be ready for a rest. I'd suggest a klong tour that afternoon for something more relaxing.
You could probably do the Marble Temple and Wat Trimitr and Vimanmek mansion on day 5 if you keep the floating market tour short and skip the crocodile farm/rose garden and go straight back to Bangkok.
Also, I notice you don't mention the Jim Thompson House - I'd rank it high on any Bangkok sightseeing trip. You might want to do that during day 3. It's easy to get to because you can walk from the Skytrain.
Agree with Kathie that you'd probably be better off to pick either Chiang Rai or Chiang Mai. If you go to Chiang Mai, don't miss Doi Suthep. And in either case, make some time to see some elephants.
Have fun!
Karen

We did our tour that should have included the Barge Museum 6 years ago. The concierge called the museum when I complained and confirmed that it was indeed open, and our tour guide had misinformed us and just skipped it.

I was feeling the need to come to Kathie's defense about easywalker's remark regarding Kathie's "callous remarks" but I can see that others who value her input have already done so.

I also agree that a visit to the Jim Thompson House is worthwhile, if only for the incredible lunch served in the cafe. Prior to my trip in Feb. I couldn't get the picture of a typical cafe out of my head. I couldn't imagine going to a "cafe" and having the food be outstanding. It is a beautiful restaurant and the food is delicious!

I would also cut out Chiang Rai (although, admittedly, I haven't been there). I really enjoyed Chiang Mai and it seems that it is favored over Chiang Rai on this forum.

Enjoy your trip and let us know if you have additional questions.

Cheers!

We were in Thailand last Feb. for our first time and we were with a tour group. We got lucky because there was only 6 of us in the group. In Bangkok that was a blessing and a curse. The Blessing -for our tour of the Grand Palace we were lucky enough to go only with our group of six - the curse because we were only a group of 6, for the 2 other days of sightseeing they put us with other groups and we ended up on a large bus full of people. We ended up constantly waiting for people who were late getting back to the bus and listening to rude people who would not stop talking while the guide was talking. Both can totally ruin an excursion. I also like to take guided tours the first time I visit any new place but Bangkok is so easy to do it all on your own. My recommendation would be to hire one of the drivers/guides recommended on this board and plan a day to do exactly what you want to do. On a hot Bangkok day it is so nice to have a friendly driver who will do anything to make your day enjoyable, have cold water and cloths waiting for you and really expose you to what a wonderful city Bangkok is. While I loved our tour with Pacific Delight Tours we were there for 18 days and only did Bangkok and the Golden Triangle. We had enough free time to enjoy each city on our own after our tours each day but were busy enough that I can't imagine trying to squeeze enough time in to fly to another city in the south in only 17 days. We enjoyed ourselves so much last year we are returning again this year visiting Bangkok, Chiang Mai(the best for shopping I found) and going down to Phuket to do some exploring for future trips. Don't try to squeeze too much in - with their heat it just does not work. Slow down and pick 2 or 3 cities and really enjoy them. There is too much to see in Bangkok to do it in a hurry.

I appreciate the comments of those of you who have found my advice helpful. Apparently, easywalker felt I was too hard on group tours. To each their own. I hope I give clear indications of my biases so others can use or discard my advice as appropriate to them.

i agree that a tour in not necessary in thailand but i also remember my first two trips when i was really feeling my way around, especially in bangkok and that was before i had the benefit of fodors.com....and it is a huge help!!

i think you would get great benefits from hiring a driver both in bkk and in CM or CR....someone like cherry in bkk or tong or ratt and ratt's sister in CM....they tailor the trip to your interests and lead you around so that you do not make mistakes and waste your limited time and also move at a pace you are comfortable with...on average a long day with them might cost +/- $100...you would see the best of the best..

kathie is basically on the $$...as usual...

i do think however that you, as young people, might prefer chiang mai over chiang rai .....and as most know i do not like CM much...just more to do and shop....four seasons is way out of town, not just outside, but way outside....you might look at the new mandarin oriental right in town...

i prefer the peninsula to the oriental also but you would not be disappointed with either...

keep asking us questions

Thank you to everyone for your invaluable advice! Based on your comments and on a bit more lurking around in other posts I have revised our itinerary as follows:

Days 1-2: Travel
Day 3: Bangkok (Oriental) Relax, klong tour, night market.
Days 4-5: Hire driver recommended on this board for two day touring (Grand Palace, Emerald Buddha, Chinatown, Marble Temple, Wat Trimitr, Vimanmek Mansion, Jim Thompson house) [If time allows possibly Wat Ben, Erawan Shrine and floating markets...but I realize the days will be full already.]
Day 6: Travel to Chiang Rei, relax (Anantera)
Days 7-10: Golden triangle, elephants/trekking, and hilltribe villages.
Day 11: Fly to Bangkok, drive to Hua Hin (Wora Bura)
Days 12-15: Hua Hin at leisure
Day 16: Morning drive to Bangkok (shopping & maybe a site missed in previous days) Overnight at Novatel airport hotel.
Day 17: 6am departure for home.

Does this look better? It’s split 4 nights Bangkok, 5 nights Chiang Rei, 5 nights Hua Hin. We are looking for a good balance of culture and relaxation. While there is so much I want to see, we don’t want to be running from place to place either b/c we want to really enjoy the places we see. Is there anything huge absent from this itinerary that we’ll regret missing? Anything to cut?

What I am still not sure about is whether to cut one day at Chiang Rei and add it to Bangkok. Any thoughts?

There is so much to do and see in Bangkok, I would cut one day from the Golden Triangle and move it to Bangkok. You'll still have plenty of time to enjoy the Anantara.

It will be a wonderful trip!