Planing a 2wk vacation in April/May, thought of China as a destinations for myself and wife. I've seen similar threads, but not exactly the same. Excuse me and point me to a link if it's been discussed.

I think we have a fairly good idea where to visit, based in Beijin and Shanghai, with day trip to surrounding cities (Great Wall, water city, etc..). Visiting the major sites, and doing a little shopping on the way. My question is how should I arrange the trip. Sad to say, we are not the adventurous-go-anywhere with a map and back-pack types as many of you. I've been too couple cities in Europe, mostly self guided following local bus tours, also did Japan a couple of times self guided. But those appear much easier than China.

We are wary of having to constantly bargin, looking out for scams. BTW, we speak a little Mandarin, so language is not a problem. For us convenience/comfort would definitely be more important than budget.

We would prefer self-guided, but after reading some of the more adventurous trip reports, don't know if we can handle the logistics. Is it do-able without a local tour guide? Our first choice would be arranged day trips out of Major Hotels since I assume don't have to worry about price-negotiation /itinerary /transportation / dependability. Would this be a model we can follow?

We could do local-tours with self arranged hotels, or an all inclusive vacation package. But would really prefer not to, simply because of the military regiment and the limited lodging and scheduling choices. And not sure how to arrange a dependable local guide.

thanks to all in advance.

planning

We went to China alone last year and really didn't have any problems with arrangements. Here's a link to our trip report which includes a lot of info on arrangements:

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34682619

tangelo, except for a 1-day tour to the Great Wall and Ming Tombs we made all our own arrangements in Beijing and Shanghai and found them easy cities to get around. As for scams, just exercise common sense - I think a good rule is to ignore any unsolicited offers you get on the street. We didn't find them a major problem. I've posted a few times with more detail - if you click on my user name you can easily find the relevant threads. Definitely check Marija's reports, and you could also run a search of this forum using the box above.

No need to bargain unless you want to shop in street markets. Beijing & Shanghai both have metered taxis and easy metro systems. You could arrange your hotels through a travel agent such as CITS or CTS which might get you better rates. They can also arrange tour guides & drivers if you want that. If you read Mandarin you should be able to find Chinese language hotel sites with good rates on the 'net. My first two trips to China I went on tours, but last time i did seven weeks solo despite not speaking Mandarin - you should do fine.

There aren't a lot of backpackers on this site, but there are plenty of people who have done China on their own. I don't think you'll have a problem. You know where you want to go, and even speak a bit of Mandarin!

Thanks for all the replies so far.

Marija: your trip report was exactly the "adventurous report" that got me a little worried. The fact that you arranged local tours ahead of time, airport pickups, on-the-fly arrangements with locals, and some feedback that cts sometimes try to squeeze money out of folks. I was extremely impressed with how much research and preperation you've obvjously done, and your travel savvy.

Neil_Oz: I see quite a bit of contribution from you, I'll see if I can catch the more China related posts.

Do the Major Hotels have well organized day-tours that I can sign up upon arrival (Like the European cities, or even Japan)? Why do people arrange guided tours ahead of time through the web, for the personal touch? price? bang for the buck?

Any more inputs greatly appreciated.

"Do the Major Hotels have well organized day-tours that I can sign up upon arrival" - well, backpacker-type hotels do, don't know about the more upmarket ones. You could check local travel agencies too - should be listed in your guidebook.

There are few or no organized day-tours. If there are, please don't join, as they'll waste your time at "shopping stops".

The more popular way is simply to get a car and driver for the long day trips, like to the Great Wall from Beijing; or the watertowns from Shanghai.

Our 3* Beijing hotel, which had few other foreign guests, offered organised day tours, and we took one to the Wall and Ming Tombs. Yes, there were some shopping stops, but they weren't onerous, and at Y160 (US$20) pp, lunch included, we had no complaints. Maybe not so good for the customers they picked up at a couple of 4/5* western-style hotels, who paid Y300. I think this was a local tax on foreign self-indulgence.

Actually there's nothing to stop anyone calling in at a hostel and taking advantage of the tours offered.

As long as you have your hotel's name and address written in Chinese you don't need to pre-arrange an airport pickup - any cab will get you there, without the markup added by the hotel.

tangelo - take it from me, you wouldn't describe us as seasoned world travellers, and we didn't find China particularly difficult. If you can speak a little potonghua you're miles better equipped than we were.

Tangelo, we're certainly not particularly adventurous, and certainly not back-pack types. We made some arrangements in advance when we knew we had complicated plans for a day. For example, we arranged guides in Xian and Chongqing in advance since we wanted to be picked up at an airport and then taken touring before being dropped off at hotels/boats. If we had more time in these cities I wouldn't have bothered with advance preparations. Hotels will make whatever arrangements you want when you get there.

Please don't let my trip report discourage you from traveling on your own! It was supposed to show that it's easy and fun!

Thanks all, Marija, Upon more research, I'm finally understanding that the Chinese travel industry and tours are not as open or as developed as other "tourist" locations (even comparing to other less developed Asian countries). And therefore some self-arrangements and loopholes have to be jumped through (different prices for same thing starting at different hotels, arranging personal guided tours). This is an eye opener for myself.

That aside I see many here have found ways to have an enjoyable time. I don't think we want to attempt to drive ourselves for a day trip as rkkwan suggested. That's beyond our comfort level in China. I see people suggesting finding a local tour guide (as apposed to a tour-bus type of operation as those may lead to money hungry shopping trips). Arranging the tour guide either through the hotel or through websites ahead of time, and again, the pricing would be uncertainly depending on where/how/who we arrange it with, and the quality of the guide I assume will be hit or miss.

I'm just putting down my understanding of the situations so far. Agreement, disagreement, or feedback is absolutely welcomed. I know China has a lot to offer, and to some, this is probaly part of the adventure.

No, you don't drive yourself in China, the car comes with a driver and optionally a guide. If you have a good guidebook, especially as you have some knowledge of Mandarin, a guide is not essential although sometimes desirable. You can visit the Forbidden City, for instance, with an English-language audio guide rented on site. I can't see that a guide adds a whole lot to the Great Wall or the Terracotta Warriors (where there is a good surround-movie included with the admission).

No, you can't drive in China. I suggested getting a "car and driver". Maybe I should have said "car with a driver". Your earn a lot of flexibility in the amount of time you want to spend at each place.

ok, sorry for the misundertanding, get a car+driver through the hotel or pre-arranged

There are advantages in getting a non China Travel Service (CTS) driver/guide, which is what hotels often arrange for you. In Beijing, for the trip to the Great Wall and Sacred Tombs, we hired a private driver who spoke good English. We didn't need a "guide." We found Jerry on the web. We didn't make "shopping stops" and we felt that we encouraged independent non-government enterprise. The same was true in Xian and Chongqing.

Likewise the Summer Palace is no trouble at all to see on your own - a taxi will get you there in 30-45 minutes, usually, for less than 80 yuean or US$10 (we paid Y60) -pay your admission, buy a guide book and off you go. Get a cab at the gate when you're finished, but from the taxi rank in the street - don't fall for anyone touting a "metered taxi", it'll be an unlicenced rip-off. Regular Beiing cabbies are great.

Not only are the Beijing (and other city) taxi drivers great, you don't tip them!