shj

Can anyone help me with information on this train route. I cannot make head or tail out of the website! We want to know the most comfortable option, the length of the journey to Dunhuang, and if there is a direct train.
I am planning on buying the tickets in Beijing a few days before we leave in August.
Any advice welcome.
Thanks

gearsau

I presume you mean Dunhaung, in Gansu. I think you would have to take the train from Beijing to Jiayuguan and transfer from there.
In March, I did a trip from Beijing to Jiayuguan, and it takes 33 hours. You should book way ahead,as, you would require a soft sleeper seat,and there are only a certain number available on each train. From my observations, there would only appear to be one car per train that is soft sleeper, and it has about 32 berths. Four berths per cabin, and 9 cabins per car, but, one cabin apears to be reserved as crew rest.

You would not want a hard sleeper .. I looked in the next car, and it didn't look that appealing to me.

I dealt with this firm for the tickets.

http://www.nihaochinatours.com/train.asp

Dont think you will just rock in and get seats a few days before the trip.

Let me know if I can help any further..

thursdaysd

The most comfortable option on any Chinese train is soft sleeper - see seat61.com for info on the classes on Chinese trains. I would expect that at a minimum you would change trains in Xi'an, which is an overnight trip from Beijing. When I did this journey there was no train to Dunhuang - the nearest station was a couple of hours north at Liuyuan. My group took the train (another overnight) from Xi'an to Jiayuguan and a bus from there. A quick google suggests there may now be a station in Dunhuang, but I don't know whether there would be a direct train from Xi'an. I suggest you look for a guidebook, maybe Lonely Planet.

thursdaysd

You cannot buy tickets on Chinese trains "way ahead" as they do not go on sale until at most 20 days in advance. Any agency that tells you it will get you tickets earlier than that is gambling on its ability to buy them when they become available. Provided you are not traveling during a major holiday you should indeed be able to buy them a few days ahead. And I've traveled in hard sleeper, and it's not that bad.

gearsau

There are trains from Jiayuguan to Dunhuang, and also trains from Xian to Dunhuang. If you use that link that I posted , and type in the start and finish stations, you will see if trains are available,and then, you tick on the box to order.
It will then take you to the next page, where you have the options of Soft Seat, Hard Sleeper Lower Berth, or Soft Sleeper Lower Berth. Pricing is shown as well.

You will pay an agents fee, and delivery charge for the tickets too. I would not like to get to China, and then have to worry about going to a tran station and try to purchase tickets when I was on holidays. Too much time wasted.

If you fill in your name and details, the travel agency will contact you. I found them to be very professional, and I was able to pay via PAYPAL as well.

As "thursdaysd" pointed out, you cannot purchase tickets months in advance, but, I would not like to wait until the last moment before purchasing.
I recently did Shanghai -- Beijing, Beijing -- Jiayuguan, Jiayuguan-- Urumqi, Urumqi--Shanghai by train over a two week period in March. Certainly was interesting. 8,874 KM in total.

If you went to Jiayuguan, you could take in the FORT there, and the Hanging Great Wall.
Unfortunately, when I was there in March at Jiayuguan, it snowed heavily, and it was not as pleasant.

shj

Thanks to both of you. I just ad a look at the train schedules and it seems I could also go by Lanzhou. 19 hrs from Beijing.Then change to a 12 hour overnight to Dunhuang.
But maybe either of you could recommed and overnight stop on the way. Jiayiguan sounds a possibility. Not the terracota army though.
We are two peopl, and will be doing this at the end of a month in Mongolia. We will do a time share swop to Dunhuang! I know it will be hot but we should manage and really be in the Gobi. It was either a coast resort or Dunhuang.
We can sort out the tickets on our way into Mongolia, I expect. I wish we couls go on all the way. I'd love to see Tashkent.
Thanks for you help and hello from Spain

gearsau

Looking at the train schedule from Beijing to Jiayuguan, they list two trains daily. Both get in at night,and then there is a train from Jiayuguan to Dunhuang at 3:33 AM , 4:45AM, or 7:22AM.

You would hardly have time to check in at your hotel before heading off to the station.
Depends if you want to spend two nights at Jiayuguan to see the Fort, Hanging Wall etc., or skip it, and spend a few hours sitting at Jiayuguan station. The waiting room there is a typical old style Chinese station.
I was booked on a 4:00AM train to Urumqi, and got to the station at 3:00AM. Due to the snow in March, my train was delayed,and I didnt leave Jiayuguan until 9:00AM.

A nice 6 hours at the station....

thursdaysd

There is more to Xi'an than the terracota warriors - I've been there three times, and the second time I didn't even visit the warriors. For my TR for a trip that included Dunhuang on the way from Beijing to Islamabad see http://wilhelmswords.com/asia2001/index.html and for pix see http://kwilhelm.smugmug.com/Travel/Asia-2001

I would certainly prefer Xi'an to Jiayuguan, which has much less to see, and Lanzhou doesn't sound too attractive in the guidebooks. BTW, I think of Dunhuang as being on the edge of the Taklamaklan rather than the Gobi, but won't you see plenty of Gobi in Mongolia?

"I would not like to get to China, and then have to worry about going to a tran station and try to purchase tickets when I was on holidays." - the other option is to wait until you get there and go to a local travel agency (NOT one in a fancy hotel). The site I linked also has suggestions for some other agencies: http://seat61.com/China.htm#How%20to%20buy%20tickets If you are on a short trip, I might want to go the way gearsau recommends, but on a long trip I would (and have) bought on the fly.

PeterN_H

Until relatively recently, the nearest station for Dunhuang was Liuyuan, some distance away, and requiring a minibus or taxi journey to complete the trip. Dunhuang now has its own station about 15km outside town, but no trains from Beijing go there directly. You would need to change at Xi'an or Lanzhou, for instance.

There is only one direct train to Liuyuan from Beijing, which is the T69, leaving Beijing at 18.36 daily, and arriving at 01.18 approximately 31 hours later.

The time in advance that tickets may be bought within China varies from bureau to bureau and from train to train, with the majority (and almost certainly this train and most others you might catch to intermediate destinations and then change--Xi'an being the obvious choice) only available 12 days in advance including day of travel. The observation, 'I wouldn't like to do this,' or similar, does not constitute much of an argument against booking tickets when in China since this is how China works, and booking in this manner is normal procedure. As remarked above, local agencies or your hotel can be used for very small fees to obtain tickets, and while satisfaction is not guaranteed I note from a quick on-line check that there are still six soft sleeper berths left for tonight's departure of that train.

Surprisingly (and this is unusual for Chinese travel company sites offering train tickets), the Nihao information on the T69 appears to be accurate, and the price quoted for a lower soft sleeper berth is also accurate. The site is, however, worryingly coy about what its service fee is going to be, and in general sites of this kind should in no way be trusted for accurate information or honest pricing.

While the Seat 61 site is an heroic effort to present train travel around the world, its chances of keeping up with changes in China are slim, it relies to some degree on user contributions, and its record on China is patchy, although the photography in particular is useful to those wanting a preview of their China rail experiences. However, the agencies the site blithely recommends are highly avoidable, their surcharge on a few randomly chosen journeys ranging from 40% to as much as 70% of the face value of the ticket. The page on 'how to book tickets' is inaccurate and incomplete.

Best option: Take one of several fast overnight trains from Beijing to Xi'an with late afternoon/early evening departures. Book in Beijing, either doing it yourself or with a local agency. Main stations have special ticket windows for foreigners, marked as English-speaking in some cases (although that isn't necessary), and note additionally that you may book the tickets for trains in this case from Beijing West from ANY Beijing station as well as from dozens of agents with computers on the railway system whose fee will be...

¥5.

Typically under 1% of the ticket cost. Hotels and other agencies (who will just walk round the corner to the ¥5 agency) will charge typically about ¥20. A lower berth on the super-duper soft-sleeper only Z19 is ¥417. There are currently no berths left for tonight's departure, but 99 left for tomorrow night's. There are nine other departures that would suit you, and your chances of not being to board one of them even buying the same day are slim.

From Xi'an there are 11 options to Liuyuan, but the 10.56 K591 to Dunhuang, arriving conveniently at 09.30 the next morning, is probably your best choice, whether you choose to break your journey in Xi'an or not. You won't be able to buy tickets for the K591 when in Beijing because it is run by a different railway bureau, but for the departure in just over two hours (as I write) there are 8 remaining soft sleeper berths, and 135 hard sleepers. A lower berth soft sleeper is ¥584.

On the other hand, the timings for Jiayuguan seem reasonable, two nights and one day being adequate for viewing the town's main sights. The most convenient 7.22am departure from there for Dunhuang may be a more simple train, although for merely five hours this may not matter. But direct buses from Jiayuguan to the centre of Dunhuang are anyway a better choice than the train.

Peter N-H

gearsau

Peter N-H,

Interesting information. I used the NIAHO TRAVEL AGENCY.. Found it when I was Googling to get information. I felt that some fees were a little bit on the high side, but, as I was on holidays, and did not want to spent time trying to sort things out at train stations, I was happy to pay the fees.
I had good correspondence with NIAHO TRAVEL, and the tickets were always delivered to my hotel.

That is something that one would have to consider. Do you want to spend hours going to Chinese Train stations, or, enjoy your holiday?
I flew into Shanghai on a Wednesday, and the train tickets were at my hotel on the Friday, for a Saturday night departure to Beijing.

What is the web site that lists the availablity of seats?

PeterN_H

Using Chinese travel organisations found by random Internet searches is the most direct route to losing money since the instruction to go directly to jail without passing 'Go'.

> That is something that one would have to consider. Do you want to spend hours going to Chinese Train stations, or, enjoy your holiday?

This is a false dichotomy, in addition to assuming in its premises the conclusion it wants to reach.

1) It has already been explained that agents or your hotel may supply the tickets. This will typically take minutes not hours to arrange.

2) Going to a train station need also not take hours, and will typically not do so.

3) Some people would consider tackling the railway station themselves to be part of their experience of China, and so part of their holiday.

Some people may also consider the difference between a commission of ¥0, ¥5, or ¥20 and a commission amounting to tens or hundreds of yuan to be well worth the effort of simply asking their hotel for assistance, popping into an agent, or going to the nearest station.

> What is the web site that lists the availablity of seats?

The site for China's Railways is in Chinese only. There's a useful English-language iPhone China Railway timetable application, however, linked directly to the Chinese Railway databases.

Peter N-H

thursdaysd

"Some people would consider tackling the railway station themselves to be part of their experience of China, and so part of their holiday." - right. Although I used travel agencies. But I suppose that depends partly on how long you're gone for. If it's just a couple of weeks you might have a different view to someone on a longer trip. But the OP IS on a longer trip and travel agencies are quick and easy.

gearsau

Peter N-H
While I see your point, I do not read Chinese, and, even though I have been to China on many occasions, for business, I was doing this trip on my own.

My hotel in Shanghai does not have a travel agent,and, I prefer to come into a country and have things organised BEFORE I get there, not get to a place, then have to sort things out.
As I mentioned, I got into Shanghai on a Wednesday, and travelled to Beijing on the following Saturday night. Hotel was already booked in Beijing, so, what happens if there are no seats available. Wait the next day? No way was I going to take a hard sleeper or regular seat from Shanghai to Beijing and then onto Jiayuguan. I saw the absolute bun fight it was getting onto a train in Beijing. I pity those people travelling in regular cars.

Maybe we agree to disagree.

PeterN_H

There is no disagreement, except that an argument that amounts to no more than 'I personally prefer X' is one that is persuasive to others. The desire to assume difficulty in alternative Y without having actually tried Y is also not persuasive.

There are of course those who will prefer to pay rapacious fees to third-party agents and that's up to them. But those aware of the alternatives will likely be less inclined to do so, and those yet to travel need to be aware what their options are. This is a public conversation with a long on-line life, and likely to be seen by dozens of readers, and is not a debate about a particular individual's preferences.

'My hotel in Shanghai does not have a travel agent,' is not a persuasive argument since travel agencies outside hotels (and indeed inside other hotels) are numerous (as has been repeatedly pointed out), Shanghai railway stations have ticket windows for foreigners, and the hotel reception desk that will not obtain rail tickets is a rare beast indeed. Whether there is officially a travel agent in a hotel is not necessarily relevant.

Lack of Chinese is no obstacle to booking tickets at a railway station or anywhere else for anyone with only a little gumption (it merely involves getting someone at the hotel--in the uncommon event they really won't tackle the problem--to write down the destination, day of travel, and class of seat wanted.) Tens of thousands of journeys are made independently by non-Chinese speakers every year, but again, Shanghai stations have windows for foreigners anyway.

The rest of the argument again speaks of personal preference and is not relevant to the OP, who is taking a different journey under different circumstances. It also repeats the desire to assume difficulties in its premises it wants to reach in its conclusions.

But the short answer is (other than anyone may of course book by whatever means they please) is that it is unwise in China to lock yourself into a schedule in which certain things must happen on certain days, that there are many trains between those two cities, that there are many flights a day whose prices often differ little from soft sleeper prices, and that distant observation of 'bun fights' tells you nothing about the realities of seat availability at all. Pushing and shoving is normal for railway stations in China in general even in cases (on very many trains now) when boarding is not permitted without a reserved seat.

Not wanting to book once in China is entirely fine. But there's precious little here that constitutes a persuasive argument against doing so in general.

Peter N-H

shj

Thank you all for your input. The seat availabilty site would be interesting to have, PeterN-H.

I think we will choose to go by Xi,an. Spend two nights there and then go on to Dunhuang.

Thursdaysd, we don't have time for the main Gobi in Mogolia and also we are interested in the caves in Dunuang.I will enjoy your trip report later! I bet it was geat.

We can clearly pick up our tickets in Beijing a few days before.Not worried about that.
Any ideas on a middle place to stay in Beijing near the Forbidden City, and in Xi,an?

Thanks to you all