Bartering in China?
Feb 15th, 2005, 12:52 PM
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Bartering in China?
How do you know where bartering is acceptable in China? All the stores or just the smaller ones? At what price do you start out? 1/2 of the marked price? In the 5 star hotels, is there no bartering?
Thanks!
Thanks!
Feb 15th, 2005, 05:24 PM
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Well, there are some reasonably obvious places where you wouldn't barter (unless I missed something!) - department and convenience stores, restaurants, bookshops, pharmacies and so forth come to mind.
Most transactions though are fair game, certainly clothing, souvenirs and so forth. And I can't see why 5-star hotels would be exempt from the rule that it's better to get some reasonable price for a room than have it empty. Normally it wouldn't be unreasonable to offer half the asking rate for a hotel room if you present yourself in person. Air fares can also be bargained at travel agencies.
When shopping it will depend on the conditions on the day, how keen the vendor is to make a sale, how outrageous his asking price is. In a very touristy part of Shanghai's Old Town, for instance, we found shopkeepers disinclined to bargain because there were lots of prospective marks wandering around. A few blocks away in the 'antiques' market business was quiet and it was a different story.
I've read (in this forum I think) that traders in areas popular with foreign tourists may quote an asking price as much as 15 times what they can accept. Simple observation has taught them that foreigners with no real idea of what something can be bought for will be happy if they get it for half the original asking price - in which case why not quadruple?
Whatever the case, bargaining should be conducted politely and with a smile. If the seller allows you to walk away without offering a lower price, that's as good as you're going to do.
Most transactions though are fair game, certainly clothing, souvenirs and so forth. And I can't see why 5-star hotels would be exempt from the rule that it's better to get some reasonable price for a room than have it empty. Normally it wouldn't be unreasonable to offer half the asking rate for a hotel room if you present yourself in person. Air fares can also be bargained at travel agencies.
When shopping it will depend on the conditions on the day, how keen the vendor is to make a sale, how outrageous his asking price is. In a very touristy part of Shanghai's Old Town, for instance, we found shopkeepers disinclined to bargain because there were lots of prospective marks wandering around. A few blocks away in the 'antiques' market business was quiet and it was a different story.
I've read (in this forum I think) that traders in areas popular with foreign tourists may quote an asking price as much as 15 times what they can accept. Simple observation has taught them that foreigners with no real idea of what something can be bought for will be happy if they get it for half the original asking price - in which case why not quadruple?
Whatever the case, bargaining should be conducted politely and with a smile. If the seller allows you to walk away without offering a lower price, that's as good as you're going to do.
Feb 15th, 2005, 07:39 PM
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Interesting. We are using United Vacations. Thus, we couldn't bargain for a lower rate for the hotel room once we get there, right? (Since everything is pre-paid). Wonder if we could ask for a free upgrade though. One of the forum writers suggested that. It's hard to determine (since this is our first time in China) what to start the bargaining with. I read that some of the local Chinese get very irate if you try to bargain too low. How about the souvenir shops in the hotel? Are they off limits?
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Thanks!
Feb 16th, 2005, 02:38 AM
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If no bargaining is allowed, there is generally a sign posted in the window or elsewhere which says “fixed price” in English. Department stores, grocery stores, fast food restaurants, shops in most western-style shopping malls and hotel gift shops are virtually all fixed price (i.e. you can’t bargain for the real Prada bag, but can for the fake in the street market...). You may be able to bargain a bit in smaller family-owned fixed price stores by offering to pay cash versus credit card, but generally I don’t think this is worth the effort.
The point above about merchants in heavily touristed areas not being into bargaining is a good one; but keep persisting with it. If you are not getting your price, walk away, you will undoubtedly see the same item down the street, or the merchant may follow you out of the store. Cash works best in all bargaining, if you plan on paying by credit card, make this clear as you begin your bargaining. Buying in volume deserves a volume discount.
It is hard to give advice on how low to go, I would generally say at least 50 to 60% below the offering price, as long as the offering price does not seem outrageous to begin with. Learn to bargain in local currency rather than US dollars. At the end of the day if you really want an item it is not worth struggling too much over bargaining esp. if you are talking abut a few dollars. We are not talking about antique rugs and furniture, we are talking about souvenirs and fake plastic pearls, not a big deal.
I would generally be careful about buying silk and cashmere as there are many fakes. Do some shopping at home to get an idea of quality and price so you know a genuine bargain when it is offered.
In my experience, Chinese do not get angry about bargaining, as it is an accepted practice. I could see that some merchant may try this on in more heavily touristed areas because they know that a westerner may agree to a price to avoid an angry scene. As long as you do not get angry and have fun with the bargaining, there should be no issue. If the merchant grumbles that your price is to low but accepts it, then you may have an indication that you got a bargain, or it may all be part of the game to make you think you got a bargain. . . .
I believe all cabs in Beijing are fixed price. If you want to hire a cab for a whole day or a trip out to the Great Wall, you may be able to work out an off-meter deal, I have no experience with this.
The point above about merchants in heavily touristed areas not being into bargaining is a good one; but keep persisting with it. If you are not getting your price, walk away, you will undoubtedly see the same item down the street, or the merchant may follow you out of the store. Cash works best in all bargaining, if you plan on paying by credit card, make this clear as you begin your bargaining. Buying in volume deserves a volume discount.
It is hard to give advice on how low to go, I would generally say at least 50 to 60% below the offering price, as long as the offering price does not seem outrageous to begin with. Learn to bargain in local currency rather than US dollars. At the end of the day if you really want an item it is not worth struggling too much over bargaining esp. if you are talking abut a few dollars. We are not talking about antique rugs and furniture, we are talking about souvenirs and fake plastic pearls, not a big deal.
I would generally be careful about buying silk and cashmere as there are many fakes. Do some shopping at home to get an idea of quality and price so you know a genuine bargain when it is offered.
In my experience, Chinese do not get angry about bargaining, as it is an accepted practice. I could see that some merchant may try this on in more heavily touristed areas because they know that a westerner may agree to a price to avoid an angry scene. As long as you do not get angry and have fun with the bargaining, there should be no issue. If the merchant grumbles that your price is to low but accepts it, then you may have an indication that you got a bargain, or it may all be part of the game to make you think you got a bargain. . . .
I believe all cabs in Beijing are fixed price. If you want to hire a cab for a whole day or a trip out to the Great Wall, you may be able to work out an off-meter deal, I have no experience with this.
Feb 16th, 2005, 06:24 AM
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Cicerone and neil have given you some excellent tips.
Generally, you do not bargain with taxis for short trips. Be sure to take only metered taxis. You may, however, arrange to "hire" a taxi for an entire day or for one trip - like to the Ming/Ching Tombs - then, you would arrange a fixed fee that is agreeable to both parties.
I also do not recall ever having bargained in restaurants. The food is so cheap mostly. I also don't remember ever seeing the Chinese bargain in a restaurant.
I don't know where the United Vacations package will take you in terms of other stuff to buy. However, I would suggest that you NOT buy anything at these locations, since there's likely a kickback to the tour operator and since the prices will be outrageous anyhow.
In the street stalls, like the old Silk Market in Beijing, those are the places where you do the most bargaining. If you pay 1/2 the asking price, you've paid too much.
Knockoffs are especially cheap. If I pay $5 US for a pair of ordinary pants, I know both the merchant and I are walking away from the transaction happy.
The thing about bargaining is that you don't have to immediately counter with a price of your own. If the merchant names a price, you just shake your head and say, "too much, too much". The merchant will press you for a counter price, but you can continue to shake your head and say "too much, too much". Wait for the merchant to come down in price, then name a counter price.
Another thing about bargaining is not to zero in on the item that you want to buy and hang on to it for dear life. Look around, ask the price for several items. Mystify the merchant as to what really interests you. Then bargain for several different items. In the end, purchase only the item that really interests you.
Bargaining can be a lot of fun. Just remember that you don't have to buy anything. Most of all, avoid the touristy areas as the others have suggested.
Generally, you do not bargain with taxis for short trips. Be sure to take only metered taxis. You may, however, arrange to "hire" a taxi for an entire day or for one trip - like to the Ming/Ching Tombs - then, you would arrange a fixed fee that is agreeable to both parties.
I also do not recall ever having bargained in restaurants. The food is so cheap mostly. I also don't remember ever seeing the Chinese bargain in a restaurant.
I don't know where the United Vacations package will take you in terms of other stuff to buy. However, I would suggest that you NOT buy anything at these locations, since there's likely a kickback to the tour operator and since the prices will be outrageous anyhow.
In the street stalls, like the old Silk Market in Beijing, those are the places where you do the most bargaining. If you pay 1/2 the asking price, you've paid too much.
Knockoffs are especially cheap. If I pay $5 US for a pair of ordinary pants, I know both the merchant and I are walking away from the transaction happy.The thing about bargaining is that you don't have to immediately counter with a price of your own. If the merchant names a price, you just shake your head and say, "too much, too much". The merchant will press you for a counter price, but you can continue to shake your head and say "too much, too much". Wait for the merchant to come down in price, then name a counter price.
Another thing about bargaining is not to zero in on the item that you want to buy and hang on to it for dear life. Look around, ask the price for several items. Mystify the merchant as to what really interests you. Then bargain for several different items. In the end, purchase only the item that really interests you.
Bargaining can be a lot of fun. Just remember that you don't have to buy anything. Most of all, avoid the touristy areas as the others have suggested.
Feb 16th, 2005, 01:08 PM
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easytraveler's advice on cabs is spot on. We found cabbies in all the cities we visited efficient, honest and good-humoured - except for the one occasion when I slipped up and took an unlicenced cab, to my shame. (In retrospect I should have noticed that he had no licence+photo displayed on the dashboard, and the dodgy meter was attached to a cable rather that fixed.)
The one time we bargained an off-meter price for a 1-hour sightseeing trip, the metered price turned out to be lower - so much for our haggling skills...
Cab drivers, like other Chinese, do not expect a tip. They'll print out a receipt for you, and it's worth hanging on to, just in case you've left something in the car.
I wouldn't be deterred from bargaining in a hotel souvenir shop - it may not work, but then again, it may. It did for me, although the owner did claim to be running a closing-down sale.
The one time we bargained an off-meter price for a 1-hour sightseeing trip, the metered price turned out to be lower - so much for our haggling skills...
Cab drivers, like other Chinese, do not expect a tip. They'll print out a receipt for you, and it's worth hanging on to, just in case you've left something in the car.
I wouldn't be deterred from bargaining in a hotel souvenir shop - it may not work, but then again, it may. It did for me, although the owner did claim to be running a closing-down sale.
Feb 16th, 2005, 01:28 PM
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Thanks for the info!
This is where I got some of my info:
http://www.thebathroomdiaries.com/china/index.html
After reading this, it dampened my interest somewhat.
This is where I got some of my info:
http://www.thebathroomdiaries.com/china/index.html
After reading this, it dampened my interest somewhat.
