Hi fellow travelers!

I'm new to this and am writing to ask your help with an itinerary for a 3 week holiday (longest ever for me!) in India over December later this year for my girlfriend and I. We are in our 30s, adventurous, energetic and very enthusiastic to make the most of every minute of this trip...riding, cycling, hiking, climbing, visiting, shopping (for my good lady, she deserves it as she'll be joining me 3 days late after an exam she has to sit...that explains the 3 days in Delhi at the outset). Any help / guidance / feedback you could give would be much appreciated.

Below is the itinerary as provided by a travel agency I found recommended elsewhere on this website and who had been really prompt and helpful to date. I don't mention their name as I also show the full price below and I don't think it's fair to them to have their quote so openly displayed. If at the end of the holiday they prove to be as good as their initial service I'll happily come back to this website and recommend them.

My one concern is the vast amounts of time wasted through driving. I've asked the travel service to indicate to me the distances traveled and time spent in doing so and they assure me this won't be lost time as there's plenty to do on the way...is that true or are they selling me a dud here? Otherwise it looks fabulous apart from the fact that I don't know what it's actually like to visit any of these place in a country I've never been to and this is where I would be extremely grateful for your help. I've traveled many other places and continents (gorillas in Africa, Machu Picchu, Vietnam, Kilimanjaro, etc) so am looking for something which will match these kind of experiences albeit in a completely different setting.

The total cost for the package comes to

US$2,700 for 5 star hotels
US$1,860 for 4 star hotels

plus US$320 for 3 flights, and include all guides, taxes, rides, entry fees, etc.

Is this reasonable in your opinion and experience?

Many thanks in advance for your help!

H&I

6 Dec. 09 – Arrival Delhi

7 Dec. 09 – Full day visit of the beaten monuments of Delhi such as Purana Quila(Old Fort), Safdarjung Tomb, Lodi Gardens, Lotus Temple, Tuglugabad etc. These are all the different cities stablished by different dgnesties at same site which makes the Delhi was stablished at the same site 7 times.

8 Dec. 09 – Drive to Sariska (Wild Life Sanctuary) ride by jeep into the sanctuary.

9 Dec. 09 – Drive back to Delhi.

10 Dec. 09 : Delhi Sightseeing + Drive Delhi to Agra - 200 KMS - 4 hrs
After breakfast proceed for sightseeing tour of Old Delhi visiting the Raj Ghat, the site where Mahatma Gandhi was cremated; Jama Masjid - the largest mosque in India; and the Red Fort - once the most opulent fort and palace of the Moghul Empire. In the afternoon take a sightseeing tour of New Delhi visiting the Humayun's Tomb, the Qutub Minar. Drive along the ceremonial avenue - Rajpath, past the imposing India Gate, Parliament House and the President's Residence. Later drive to Agra and check in the hotel. (Overnight at hotel)

11 Dec. 09 : Sightseeing Agra + Drive Agra to Ranthambore via Fatehpur Sikri - 300 KMS - 6 Hrs
After breakfast drive to Agra and check in to hotel. Later visit the magnificent Taj Mahal - one of the Seven Wonders of the World surely the most extravagant expression of love ever created. 20,000 men labored for over 17 years to build this memorial to Shah Jahan's beloved wife. Also visit the Red Fort - the rusty and majestic red-sandstone fort of Agra stands on the banks of the river Yamuna. Afternoon drive to Ranthambore en-route visit Fatehpur Sikri - built by the Mughal Emperor, Akbar in honor of Saint Salim Chisti, who foretold the birth of 3 sons to Emperor Akbar, an example of robust stability combined with originality. Each important edifice here represents a type by itself. Notable among them is the Diwane Khas, Punch Mahal, The Tomb of Salim Chisti, and the Buland Darwaza. After a short cycling of 35 to 40 minutes continue drive to Ranthambore and check in to hotel. (Overnight at hotel)

12 Dec. 09 : AM Sanctuary visit + PM Drive Ranthambore to Jaipur- 180 Kms - 3 hrs
Early morning enjoy the visits of sanctuary to see Tiger, Panther, Hyena, Jungle Cat, Civet, Sambar, Chital, Nilgai, Bear, Wild Boar, Partridge, Green Pigeon, Red Squrfowl etc. Return hotel for breakfast. Afternoon drive to Jaipur and check in the hotel. (Overnight at Hotel)

13 Dec. 09 : AM Amber + PM City tour
After breakfast excursion to Amber - the old capital of Jaipur rulers. Ride on the back of an elephant from the foots of the hill upto the gates of the fortress. Afternoon sight seeing tour of Jaipur including Maharaja's Museum and Jai Singh's Astronomical Observatory and Hawa Mahal. (Overnight at hotel)

14 Dec. 09 : Drive Jaipur to Bikaner + Sightseeing - 350 Kms/ 5 hrs
After breakfast at hotel drive to Bikaner and visit the Junagarh Fort, Lalgarh Palace, Museum and The Camel’s Breeding Farm. (Overnight at hotel)

15 Dec. 09 : Camp With Camel Safari
After breakfast at hotel drive to a point there your camel awaits you, mount the camel and ride in to the camp. Evening enjoy the dinner at camp. Ride on caamel back traverresing the Thar Desert see the reptiles life also visit local desert villages and the colourful local people. Evening enjoy dinner in camp. (Overnight at camp)

16 Dec. 09 : AM Drive Bikaner to Jaisalmer + PM Sam Sand Dunes - 300 Kms/5 hrs
After breakfast at camp ride to a point where your transport awaits you, and drive to Jaisalmer and check in the hotel. Afternoon excursion to Sam Sand Dunes here you will enjoy the camel ride and witness the sun set against the sand dunes. (Overnight at hotel)

17 Dec. 09 : AM city tour + PM Drive Jaisalmer to Jodhpur & Bishnoi Village - 300 kms-5 hrs
After breakfast sight seeing of Jaisalmer includes the visit of Jain Temples, Gadisar tank, Fort, Patewon ki Haveli, Nathmalji-ki Haveli and Salim Singh’s Haveli. Later drive to Jodhpur and check in the htoel. Evening visit the Bishnoi village by Jeep viewing artisince such as Black smith, Gold Smiths, Cobllers etc at work. (Overnight at hotel)

18 Dec. 09 : AM Sightseeing Jodhpur + PM Trekking - 150 Kms - 3 hrs
After breakfast take city tour includes the visit of wonderful Mehrangarh Fort and Jaswant Thada (the royal Cenotaphs of Maharaja Jaswant Singh). Later drive to for the starting point of Trekking en-route visit of wonderful Mehrangarh Fort and Jaswant Thada (the royal Cenotaphs of Maharaja Jaswant Singh). After visit continue drive for the trekking point. Start trekking in the aravali ranges. Visit tribal villages. arrice at the camp site (dinner +o/n camp)

19 Dec. 09 : Trekking
Breakfast at camp site .start trekking . Lunch hault and dinner at camp. (Overnight at camp)

20 Dec. 09 : Drive to Udaipur + City Tour & Boat ride - 100 Kms - 2 and half hrs
After breakfast at camp treke to the point where your transport awaits, drive to Udaipur and check in the hotel. Afternoon take city tour of Udaipur includes the visit of Palace Museum- made of granite and marble with filigreed balconies, ornate windows and craftsmanship in glass. Each palace within is an outstanding creation of art, Sahelion Ki Bari - a garden with fountains, once used for the enjoyment of royal ladies. Bhartiya Lok Kala Mandal- a folk art museum, Jagdish Temple. Afternoon enjoy boat ride on lake Pichola. (Overnight at hotel)

21 Dec. 09 : Fly Udaipur to Goa
After breakfast at hotel in time transfer to Udaipur airport for your flight to Goa. On arrival at Goa you are met and transfer to hotel. (Overnight at hotel)

22 Dec. 09 : At Goa
After breakfast, day free to relax on the beaches. (Overnight at hotel)

23 Dec. 09 : At Goa
After breakfast, day free to relax on the beaches. (Overnight at hotel)

24 Dec. 09 : At Goa
After breakfast, day free to relax on the beaches. (Overnight at hotel)

25 Dec. 09 : Fly Goa to Mumbai
After breakfast at hotel in time transfer to Goa airport for your flight to Mumbai. On arrival at Mumbai you are transfer to Mumbai International airport for your flight to back home.

Please can you help me guys...not sure why I've not had a response but would very much appreciate it if someone could have a look at let me know their experiences / advice...thanks.

I've only been to India once, so I'm a novice, but I think your itinerary is beyond crazy. They have you going from Agra to Ranthambore for one game drive?! You'll spend all of your time exhausted in the car. We went at a fast clip but compared to your proposal it was a leisurely meander. Too bad our expert is attending tribal festivals in India, he'd sure set you straight!

My meager advice is not to worry about the price at this point but to put together a realistic itinerary. Read some of the India trip reports on this site and see what places appeal to you. Then figure out what's feasible.

The itinerary above is totally crazy. You guide has you doing drive-bys, I'm sure, as there is no way you could possible visit all the sights in Delhi, then make it to Agra.

The ride to Agra CAN be 4 hours. It can also be 6 hours or 8 hours, and yes I've driven it four times. You do not want to be on the road after dark.

Your guide seems to be estimating an average speed of 50-60 kilometers per hour. Good luck, and take lots of valium if you have a driver who can actually achieve that!

I'm sorry, but I am so overwhelmed by the first few days, I can't really offer any other suggestions.

Herminator -- I also have only been to India once, so I'm not sure how much help I can be. I don't think the price sounds too bad, but it does cover an awful lot of ground in a short period of time. You may want to cut back on the number of places and slow down a bit. We drove between some of the cities we visited, and didn't mind it at all -- I like it because you get to see the countryside. However, it does take time. Flying is an option -- its not terribly exensive to fly domestically in India (I recommend Kingfisher, as have others on this board -- and Jet is good as well), but sometimes that takes just as long as driving, by the time you get to the airport check in, security, delays, etc. Personally, I happen to like throwing my bags in the back of the car and not having to constantly check them through security. Also, while it takes some effort, we made all our own arrangements -- booked transporation, hotels, car and driver, so it is possible, and you can save some money doing this. You take on all the risk yourself, but if you plan well and give yourself plenty of room for error you will be fine. I don't mind blaming myself for a screw-up, but if I am paying someone else for the service, the aggravation can close to spoiling a trip. I speak from my wn experience, of course. You've got plenty of time to work on this -- keep refining it and definitely come back for more input. People here were very helpful to me -- they give good advice.

I too have only been to India once, but it was 10 weeks on my own traveling by train. I have to say, I gave up reading this itinerary round about Jaipur, because I really couldn't imagine anyone taking it seriously. It isn't even written in good tour guide English, and it clearly gives you no time anywhere to do more than glance at the "sights". Part of the point of being in India is to experience the country, not check off a list of sights. Also, travel in India can be exhausting as well as exilarating, and you can't keep up this kind of pace for three weeks.

I suggest:
1. Dump whatever outfit came up with this
2. Spend some time reading trip reports here, browsing illustrated guide books, reading non-illustrated guide books
3. Come up with a list of what YOU want to see - and do, since you say you are energetic - maybe you'd like to hike in the Himalayas?
4. Cut it down to what will fit in three weeks without rushing around all the time - consider trains (see seat61.com) and planes as well as a car and driver. And make sure you're not driving at night when you are traveling by car.
5. Come back with some specific questions.

I agree with the above comments. I can't imagine spending all that driving for so many one night stops.

We traveled independantly in India 3 years ago for 3 weeks and I would not have wanted to do it any other way. Here is what we did in 3 weeks, and even this was fairly rushed.

Delhi 2 nights, evening train to Agra
Agra 1 night, Taj at sunrise, then private driver to Fathpur Sikri, Agra Fort, Baby Taj
Night train to Varanasi, Varanasi 2 nights
Night train Jaipur, Jaipur 2 nights
Evening train to Ranthambhore, 3 nights
Night train to Udaipur, 3 nights
Driver to Jodhpur (stop at Kumbhalgarh and Ranakpur on the way) 2 nights
Driver to Jaisalmer, 2 nights
Night train back to Delhi, 1 more night (2 days) before 2 am departure.

Have a good trip !

It's not just the driving alone. It's the condition of the roads that is exhuasting. Plus, the tour doesn't even give you a day to catch up from your flight. I assume your flight arrives late at night and then - BOOM - you're out zipping all around Delhi.

Many of these driving routes (any over 2 hours) should be done by train (first class cars) or flight. The fast pace that this tour has you going at will not allow you to enjoy much of what you are seeing. They are putting QUANTITY over QUALITY.

There is a substantial amount of India information here from people who have done the same places that you are looking to do.

You really need to exploit that information and read back through the Asia Forum for about the past year.

You will find itineraries and even reccomendations of tour companies.

We went to India in Dec. 2008. We hired a car with driver for 11 days. Started in Delhi (2 nights) Mandawa (1) Jaipur (2) Ranthambore (1) Agra (2) Orchha (1) and Kajaruro (2) then flew to Varanasi for 1 night. Ranthambore was a waste of time and the driving was the worst. I didn't expect to see tigers but thought we would see other animals. Only saw 2 wild boar, 1 monkey, a few birds and many deer. I didn't mind the long drives as we saw daily life with small villages and farms along the way. We really liked having our driver and felt safe as he was looking out for us (2 women). I wanted to see as much as possible in the time we had and felt that we did. I know others like to spend alot of time in each place, but thought we spent the right amount of time in each place. The only thing I would change would be 1 night in Krajaruho and 2 in Varanasi. My favorite place was Orchha. Loved the village and sights. We enjoyed the weather in December. Not too hot, only wore a jacket one or two nights.

Another thought. We booked the car with an agent in India, but booked most of the hotels ourselves. I think we saved alot of money doing it this way. The few hotels the agent booked for us were more expensive. I booked our domestic flights on line with Kingfisher. The agent would have charged more than what we paid. All our hotels included breakfast and were all pretty clean and nice (not 5 star). We ate dinner at some of our hotels and didn't have a bad meal.

Yep, this is seriously overloaded... and do you really want to do so much of Rajasthan - the palaces will all start to look the same after Jaisalmer!!!
I would rather recommend Varanasi or even Rishikesh to get some varied flavour of India.
And dont forget the heat (Its already hitting 35 C+ across India)- between that & the roads you will be quite exhausted. Pls explore trains - the best way to travel across India if not by air

Thanks vvv much for all the input, it's really helpful. The driving had me worried, so I'll take advice for sure and explore trains instead of driving too much, consider flights, and cut out Ranthambore perhaps and make the itinerary more focused. Perhaps book everything myself even, from the advice I've read. Thanks v much, I might be back with more specific questions but the general theme of advice is understood!

Herman

Hello Herminator, Read my post about our trip to Delhi, Agra, Jaipur and Ranthambore and hotels in Agra. We received a lot of good advice from everyone on this forum. After reading their posts we gave up the idea of a car and are travelling by train between these places. For example we found a train from Delhi to Agra early in the morning that gets there in 2 hrs. One thing we were told to remember was that Taj is closed on Friday.

Also, in Goa it is nice to relax on the beaches but there are a lot of pleace s you can visit. Fishing nets, church, old fort and many such places.

In addition to Kingfisher, Indigo is another good airline. Not many routes covered but good prices on the ones they have.

Your day in Delhi, visiting the various sites---Reminding you that the traffic in Delhi is horrendous. If any place is even 10 km. away. Just plan a good 2 hours or more depending on the time of day. Remember it is a very crowded city, people on the road are not only in cars and trucks, but also on cycles, scooters as well as pedestrians. Everywhere there is a chaos on roads as the traffic rules are not followed anywhere. In addition, you may even see a cow wandering right in middle of the traffic.
So, you can plan to do a lot, but remember that you may not accomplish everything on any given day as you may be sitting in the traffic at every light or even behind a wedding procession!

Delhi is really spreadout also so some points of interest are quite far from the center city and with the traffic chaos everything feels like it is long distance travel even though you may be still just in Delhi.

I am excited that you are going there, as it is a lot of fun. Just be prepared and take it easy and bring your humor as well as patience.

Nothing is fast in India, so enjoy the moments fully and do not get stressed. All the board members have given you good advice. So, get prepared mentally as well as physically.

Happy planning.

Delhi traffic can be very clogged, but many of the sights are either lumbed in South Delhi or north by the fort.

get a map and do things like Humayan's tomb, Qtab Minar, Khan or Santushti Markets, etc in the morning, then do the Fort Chadni Chouwk, JamaMashid in the afternoon or the next day.

Be aware of opening times. Some spots open very early, others late. Nothing like killing your very limited time in the car...especially if the next sight is way far away.