US - AA merger on the horizon?
Apr 20th, 2012, 08:50 AM
#1
US - AA merger on the horizon?
US Airways has filed papers with the Security and Exchange Commission indicating it is starting the process of merging with American Airlines (now in bankruptcy protection.) US has negotiated agreements with the three principal unions representing AA workers (including pilots and cabin crew) who have all announced their support for the deal. AMR's leadership, which has been promoting a "go it alone" strategy, seems to have been bypassed in the process.
So fasten your seatbelts and stow your tray tables, laddies and lassies, it looks like we're flying into some considerable chop.
So fasten your seatbelts and stow your tray tables, laddies and lassies, it looks like we're flying into some considerable chop.
Apr 20th, 2012, 09:07 AM
#2
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Well, the UA/Continental merger has done nothing but make a good airline (CO) terrible. I certainly hope that doesn't happen to AA. I guess I don't know enough about US Airways as I have never flown them. Of course, I haven't flown UA either and don't really want to. Their service is horrible and has so many people in Houston upset since the merger.
Apr 20th, 2012, 11:42 AM
#3
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Well, my problem with bettyk's view is the assumption that AA was a 'good airline' (they actualy rank pretty low on my list)
That said USAir is not exactly a great airline. What amazes me is that the unions like this idea. Gee, USAir has such "great" relations with their union LOL! Overall, the big loser will be the consumer.
That said USAir is not exactly a great airline. What amazes me is that the unions like this idea. Gee, USAir has such "great" relations with their union LOL! Overall, the big loser will be the consumer.
Apr 20th, 2012, 12:28 PM
#4
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The news media has it wrong, stunningly wrong. US Airways can file papers from now until the cows come home but ONLY American Airlines has the power and the right to file papers proposing a reorganization, and everybody knows from frequent published reports that AA does not like US Airways (come to think of it, the whole world doesn't like US Airways and I wouldn't fly them for free) and has no interest whatsoever in getting into bed with these losers. AA has months to reorganize and it is not going to be now and it is not going to be with US Airways, one of the worst airlines in the world.
Apr 20th, 2012, 01:37 PM
#5
AMR has until late September to file a reorganization plan; however the unsecured creditors also have the right to ask the court to consider other plans in the interim. AMR's "exclusive" right is not - it was made conditional by the court when AMR's deadline was extended to September.
The three unions in question comprise a third of the membership of the unsecured creditors committee. Here's the list:
Allied Pilots Association;
Association of Professional Flight Attendants;
Boeing Capital Corporation;
Hewlett-Packard Enterprise Services, LLC;
Manufacturers and Traders Trust Company;
Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation;
The Bank of New York Mellon;
Transport Workers Union of America - AFL-CIO; and
Wilmington Trust Company.
It is indeed ironic that US and the AA unions are speaking with one voice in this, given that after - what is it - six years? seven? - the US Airways unions are still divided between ex-USAir and ex-America West affiliations.
Going on the record like this, it's hard to imagine this being some sort of "leverage" ploy by the unions vis a vis AA - more like a nuclear launch.
The three unions in question comprise a third of the membership of the unsecured creditors committee. Here's the list:
Allied Pilots Association;
Association of Professional Flight Attendants;
Boeing Capital Corporation;
Hewlett-Packard Enterprise Services, LLC;
Manufacturers and Traders Trust Company;
Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation;
The Bank of New York Mellon;
Transport Workers Union of America - AFL-CIO; and
Wilmington Trust Company.
It is indeed ironic that US and the AA unions are speaking with one voice in this, given that after - what is it - six years? seven? - the US Airways unions are still divided between ex-USAir and ex-America West affiliations.
Going on the record like this, it's hard to imagine this being some sort of "leverage" ploy by the unions vis a vis AA - more like a nuclear launch.
Apr 20th, 2012, 02:19 PM
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CarolA, American HAS been a good airline for us. We've been flying them to Europe for years now and use our FF miles for either upgrades to Biz Class or free tickets. They are no better or no worse IMO than any other international airline.
Apr 20th, 2012, 03:50 PM
#7
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bettyk - I totally agree with you. I've been flying AA for about 25 years now. Joined their FF awards in 1989. Haven't paid for an international ticket (except taxes) since 1995, and always fly Business class on FF.
I hate to see my 1.2m miles as a lifetime Gold member disappear to some crappy airline like US Air.
Gardyloo - thanks for the detail information on the situation as you see it. Most helpful. Let's see if AA can cut enough white collar jobs to make a difference. FEBO rules!
I hate to see my 1.2m miles as a lifetime Gold member disappear to some crappy airline like US Air.
Gardyloo - thanks for the detail information on the situation as you see it. Most helpful. Let's see if AA can cut enough white collar jobs to make a difference. FEBO rules!
Apr 21st, 2012, 11:54 AM
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I hate to see my 1.2m miles as a lifetime Gold member disappear to some crappy airline like US Air.
unless I missed something, the merger will be USAir INTO AA, so AA will still manage and run the airline, not the other way around.
unless I missed something, the merger will be USAir INTO AA, so AA will still manage and run the airline, not the other way around.
Apr 21st, 2012, 01:37 PM
#10
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I have some wonderful AA horror stories, but I want bore you....
That said, when AA went into bankruptcy they gave up some control. The creditors want what gets them the most funds...and they have some power in this fight.
That said, when AA went into bankruptcy they gave up some control. The creditors want what gets them the most funds...and they have some power in this fight.
Apr 21st, 2012, 02:13 PM
#11
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bettyk - I read it as a hostile takeover also.
The guestimate was that as many as 50% of AA flight personnel would lose their jobs if US Air took over AA. Doesn't make sense for them to vote to lose their jobs.
Tom Horton and the AA management team are essentially ignoring any overtures by US Air.
From the WSJ yesterday, "Still, there remain considerable obstacles to any deal—including AMR management's resistance. American dismissed Friday's announcements, noting a bankruptcy judge gave it the exclusive right through September to chart a path out of bankruptcy and that alternative plans from creditors or would-be acquirers needn't be considered."
The guestimate was that as many as 50% of AA flight personnel would lose their jobs if US Air took over AA. Doesn't make sense for them to vote to lose their jobs.
Tom Horton and the AA management team are essentially ignoring any overtures by US Air.
From the WSJ yesterday, "Still, there remain considerable obstacles to any deal—including AMR management's resistance. American dismissed Friday's announcements, noting a bankruptcy judge gave it the exclusive right through September to chart a path out of bankruptcy and that alternative plans from creditors or would-be acquirers needn't be considered."
Apr 21st, 2012, 02:45 PM
#12
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NEW AMERICAN AIRLINES
David Bates, president of the Allied Pilots Association, which represents the pilots, said in a letter to members that a combined carrier would be branded American Airlines and be based in Fort Worth, Texas, which is where AMR is currently based. US Airways has its headquarters in Tempe, Arizona.
The new carrier would remain in the one world global airline alliance and would be comparable in scope and size with rivals United Airlines and Delta Air Lines Inc, which overtook AMR in size after their own mergers, Bates said.
He said American's orders for narrow-body aircraft would proceed and the former US Airways system would be aligned with American Airlines routes to add more cities.
http://news.yahoo.com/american-airli...--finance.html
David Bates, president of the Allied Pilots Association, which represents the pilots, said in a letter to members that a combined carrier would be branded American Airlines and be based in Fort Worth, Texas, which is where AMR is currently based. US Airways has its headquarters in Tempe, Arizona.
The new carrier would remain in the one world global airline alliance and would be comparable in scope and size with rivals United Airlines and Delta Air Lines Inc, which overtook AMR in size after their own mergers, Bates said.
He said American's orders for narrow-body aircraft would proceed and the former US Airways system would be aligned with American Airlines routes to add more cities.
http://news.yahoo.com/american-airli...--finance.html
Apr 21st, 2012, 04:05 PM
#13
"...and that alternative plans from creditors or would-be acquirers needn't be considered."
Key word is "needn't." Not the same as "can't."
AA has until September to develop a reorganization plan acceptable to the creditors. With the depth of the proposed personnel and pay cuts now being proposed (unofficially) by AMR, what chance is it that the creditors will find the plan acceptable as is? If the creditors have a plan that IS acceptable to the (other) creditors at that point, it can move into first position.
But the court has the ability to look at other plans in the interim; it "needn't" wait until September.
Key word is "needn't." Not the same as "can't."
AA has until September to develop a reorganization plan acceptable to the creditors. With the depth of the proposed personnel and pay cuts now being proposed (unofficially) by AMR, what chance is it that the creditors will find the plan acceptable as is? If the creditors have a plan that IS acceptable to the (other) creditors at that point, it can move into first position.
But the court has the ability to look at other plans in the interim; it "needn't" wait until September.
Apr 21st, 2012, 09:47 PM
#14
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I remember when Bank of America, a nice bank in SF that was founded over 100 years ago, allowed NationsBank to take them over.
It was thought the new HQ would be in SF...that lasted about a minute. NB raped the then BofA and moved virtually everything to Charlotte. NB turned BofA into the evil empire.
AAFF, this sounds like US Air's merger with AA. Wanna bet on all the US Air execs moving to Texas?
I'll offere 5 to 1 they don't.
It was thought the new HQ would be in SF...that lasted about a minute. NB raped the then BofA and moved virtually everything to Charlotte. NB turned BofA into the evil empire.
AAFF, this sounds like US Air's merger with AA. Wanna bet on all the US Air execs moving to Texas?
I'll offere 5 to 1 they don't.
Apr 22nd, 2012, 03:40 PM
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AAFF - It's still called BofA, but it's owned by NB. They bought the name, locations of BofA.
Everyone in the Bay Area was totally p*ssed that BofA sold out. Execs got a ton of severance pay, and went off to do the same at some other bank.
Everyone in the Bay Area was totally p*ssed that BofA sold out. Execs got a ton of severance pay, and went off to do the same at some other bank.
Apr 22nd, 2012, 07:37 PM
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AAFF - BofA gets the job done, and are willing to do a number on you. Try reading the news sometime.
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/refere...res/index.html
http://courantblogs.com/ct-real-esta...al-settlement/
US Airways may take the name of American Airlines if they win a takover, but, then it's no longer Anerican Airlines, it's just the wolf in the sheep's clothing, a la NB's takeover of BofA. Comprendre?
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/refere...res/index.html
http://courantblogs.com/ct-real-esta...al-settlement/
US Airways may take the name of American Airlines if they win a takover, but, then it's no longer Anerican Airlines, it's just the wolf in the sheep's clothing, a la NB's takeover of BofA. Comprendre?
Apr 22nd, 2012, 09:16 PM
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AAFF -are you dense?
The point is, taking over another company and taking their name, but forsaking their culture, values and management, means that the 'new' company is your company in name only.
I tried a sample RT to France. At AA, the miles in Biz class would be 100k to 200k. At USAir, the miles are 275K and up.
Welcome to the new world. This sums it up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q
The point is, taking over another company and taking their name, but forsaking their culture, values and management, means that the 'new' company is your company in name only.
I tried a sample RT to France. At AA, the miles in Biz class would be 100k to 200k. At USAir, the miles are 275K and up.
Welcome to the new world. This sums it up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q
