Small seats - big passengers
Sep 15th, 2015, 12:55 AM
#42
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'What rational person believes that one should just suffer for a long flight and sacrifice their personal space, which they paid for? '
Jesus Christ did.
But was he rationale ? And he ended up on a cross.
So he was wrong on both counts.
All you need is love, lalalala,
I love the 'they paid for' - some people say US society is only focused on money.
I'm a material girl, tutu...
I'd rather stay an old fool and 'suffer' (ouch, so complicated) a few hours to enable people who are less lucky to also have a life. It costs me no money, just a small disconfort.
Call me 'Saint ParisWat'
Jesus Christ did.
But was he rationale ? And he ended up on a cross.
So he was wrong on both counts.
All you need is love, lalalala,
I love the 'they paid for' - some people say US society is only focused on money.
I'm a material girl, tutu...
I'd rather stay an old fool and 'suffer' (ouch, so complicated) a few hours to enable people who are less lucky to also have a life. It costs me no money, just a small disconfort.
Call me 'Saint ParisWat'
Sep 15th, 2015, 10:44 AM
#43
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Everybody on this forum sure must be in great shape and probably wouldn't be caught dead in the same room as a fat person.
Did it ever occur to anyone how an obese passenger feels when they are overflowing into a normal passenger's personal space? Just like the Elephant Man, fat people have feelings too.
Both my inlaws are obese and my wife is on the up side of voluptuous. Sometimes the airlines can accomodate their requests for paid extra seats but sometimes they can't because the flights have been oversold and they don't find out until just before boarding. Should they get bumped off their flights to avoid being physically uncomfortable themselves and embarassing themselves when they overflow into the pissed off normal passenger's dinner tray? It's not always up to the fat guy.
Plenty of lawsuits in the US related to discrimination against obese people so the airlines have to walk a fine line. It's also up to the airlines to make changes to accomodate fat people since obesity is on the rise in all countries for a number of reasons. But like SaintParisWat said this will end up costing everybody higher ticket prices. In the meantime nobody in my family is complaining. Long haul flights are a bitch anyway and nobody likes them.
Maybe the fat people should just walk from North America to Europe. That way they wouldn't bother the normal people and might lose a little weight too. On the other hand really ignorant people should definitely stay home in the dark where they belong.
Did it ever occur to anyone how an obese passenger feels when they are overflowing into a normal passenger's personal space? Just like the Elephant Man, fat people have feelings too.
Both my inlaws are obese and my wife is on the up side of voluptuous. Sometimes the airlines can accomodate their requests for paid extra seats but sometimes they can't because the flights have been oversold and they don't find out until just before boarding. Should they get bumped off their flights to avoid being physically uncomfortable themselves and embarassing themselves when they overflow into the pissed off normal passenger's dinner tray? It's not always up to the fat guy.
Plenty of lawsuits in the US related to discrimination against obese people so the airlines have to walk a fine line. It's also up to the airlines to make changes to accomodate fat people since obesity is on the rise in all countries for a number of reasons. But like SaintParisWat said this will end up costing everybody higher ticket prices. In the meantime nobody in my family is complaining. Long haul flights are a bitch anyway and nobody likes them.
Maybe the fat people should just walk from North America to Europe. That way they wouldn't bother the normal people and might lose a little weight too. On the other hand really ignorant people should definitely stay home in the dark where they belong.
Sep 15th, 2015, 01:05 PM
#45
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So manouche - even though I have to pay a full fare for my seat (probably the same fare as your in-laws) I should plan on sharing that seat with one of your in-laws should I be unfortunate enough to be seated in the same row? So I get two-thirds of a seat - and he or she gets one and a third?
That's ridiculous.
And it has nothing to do with whether I care about a fat person's "feelings." Just the same as if someone had leg in a cast and needed accommodations. I certainly wouldn't expect to have to hold another person's leg across my lap for a ten-hour flight.
Yes, it should be up to the airline to make the arrangements for everyone to have a seat they can fit into. It's a safety issue, as well as one of fairness to all.
But the responsibility for pressing the airlines to deal with this should lie with the people who cannot fit into a standard seat. It's not my issue, nor my responsibility.
That's ridiculous.
And it has nothing to do with whether I care about a fat person's "feelings." Just the same as if someone had leg in a cast and needed accommodations. I certainly wouldn't expect to have to hold another person's leg across my lap for a ten-hour flight.
Yes, it should be up to the airline to make the arrangements for everyone to have a seat they can fit into. It's a safety issue, as well as one of fairness to all.
But the responsibility for pressing the airlines to deal with this should lie with the people who cannot fit into a standard seat. It's not my issue, nor my responsibility.
Sep 15th, 2015, 01:52 PM
#47
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I guess my husband and I have been extremely lucky. We don't fly as often as a lot of you, but do fly several times a year. The situation being discussed here has never happened to us. Does it really happen all that often?
Sep 15th, 2015, 10:23 PM
#49
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'It's not my issue, nor my responsibility'
Not true. It is your responsibility to make a better world.
The truth is that you don't care about other's problems.
And you hide under the pretense of 'somebody else should deal with it', I've paid, I'm entitled to the service.
I find it incredible that people can come on a public forum and blatantly explain that they are totally selfish people who will not do anything to help somebody else.
Again, I hope you never run into problems yourself and don't find totally non empathic people in front of (or next to)you should it ever happen that you would find yourself in a situation of needing some help or comprehension.
Not true. It is your responsibility to make a better world.
The truth is that you don't care about other's problems.
And you hide under the pretense of 'somebody else should deal with it', I've paid, I'm entitled to the service.
I find it incredible that people can come on a public forum and blatantly explain that they are totally selfish people who will not do anything to help somebody else.
Again, I hope you never run into problems yourself and don't find totally non empathic people in front of (or next to)you should it ever happen that you would find yourself in a situation of needing some help or comprehension.
Sep 16th, 2015, 08:19 AM
#50
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pariswat, your holier than thou attitude is amazing. Yes, I am upset when I pay for a seat on a long-haul flight and spend ten hours or more in a twisted position, trying to avoid being pressed under the body of the person next to me. And, I don't feel it should be my sacrifice to endure this unsafe and uncomfortable situation. I guess I will have to admit I'm not a "saint" as you claimed to be in your earlier post. And, sorry, but ten hours or more is not a "few" hours.
I am not unsympathetic. I understand that it is probably no more pleasant for the over-sized person in this situation than it is for me. Why is it not that person who is the "selfish" one, expecting others to be uncomfortable because of their "problem," as you call it.
But what is the solution? For the typical-sized person to ask the airline ahead that he or she not be seated next to someone who will take up extra space? That's silly, and unlikely to help. The typical sized person doesn't really have a part in this problem.
All I am stating is that everyone who buys a seat on an airline should be provided with a seat he or she fits into in a safe and endurable manner (notice I'm not even saying "comfortable") that does not impinge on other customers.
If a person should require special accommodations for whatever reason, it is their responsibility to make those needs known to the airline and provided for.
Not seeing where "selfish" comes into that equation.
Okay, I'm joining thursdaysd and heading out of here.
I am not unsympathetic. I understand that it is probably no more pleasant for the over-sized person in this situation than it is for me. Why is it not that person who is the "selfish" one, expecting others to be uncomfortable because of their "problem," as you call it.
But what is the solution? For the typical-sized person to ask the airline ahead that he or she not be seated next to someone who will take up extra space? That's silly, and unlikely to help. The typical sized person doesn't really have a part in this problem.
All I am stating is that everyone who buys a seat on an airline should be provided with a seat he or she fits into in a safe and endurable manner (notice I'm not even saying "comfortable") that does not impinge on other customers.
If a person should require special accommodations for whatever reason, it is their responsibility to make those needs known to the airline and provided for.
Not seeing where "selfish" comes into that equation.
Okay, I'm joining thursdaysd and heading out of here.
Sep 16th, 2015, 09:33 AM
#51
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Sc
As fo me I think you have no heart.
You are not a person I would like to meet in the flesh.
As long as you can live with your conscience it is ok for you.
So be it,
Amen, belotte et rebelotte.
As fo me I think you have no heart.
You are not a person I would like to meet in the flesh.
As long as you can live with your conscience it is ok for you.
So be it,
Amen, belotte et rebelotte.
Sep 16th, 2015, 10:01 AM
#52
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I was sitting by Spy Pond earlier today, enjoying the peacefulness of a sunny morning in early autumn. Uninvited by me, three mothers came by with infant children, two of whom were crying loudly. I'm pretty sure that they wanted to enjoy the place, too.
A couple of weeks ago, I was flying back from London, half-dozing. The man in the next seat turned on his overhead reading lamp, and the glare from it disrupted my semi-slumber.
Each of us lives on a planet with several billion neighbors. And almost all of us are going to regularly experience various intrusions. I find that life is simpler when I try to minimize the intrusions that I make, and especially to let slide the unintended intrusions made by someone else.
If I want badly enough to sit by a lake without aural intrusion, I should rent my own house. If I want badly enough to avoid a lamp's visual intrusion at my seat, I should sit in a 1st-class suite and not the crummy BA business class seat I had. If someone wants to avoid spatial intrusion, let them sit in business or first.
A couple of weeks ago, I was flying back from London, half-dozing. The man in the next seat turned on his overhead reading lamp, and the glare from it disrupted my semi-slumber.
Each of us lives on a planet with several billion neighbors. And almost all of us are going to regularly experience various intrusions. I find that life is simpler when I try to minimize the intrusions that I make, and especially to let slide the unintended intrusions made by someone else.
If I want badly enough to sit by a lake without aural intrusion, I should rent my own house. If I want badly enough to avoid a lamp's visual intrusion at my seat, I should sit in a 1st-class suite and not the crummy BA business class seat I had. If someone wants to avoid spatial intrusion, let them sit in business or first.
Sep 17th, 2015, 08:32 AM
#54
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<b>What's ridiculous about it is that the passenger is not "stealing" your space, the airline is. </b>
Nonsense. The airline is selling you transportation and giving you a place to stay while they carry out their end of the bargain. It is your responsibility to make certain that you can fit in the space they are allocating. If you can't, there is Business Class, First Class or stay at home.
<b>Not true. It is your responsibility to make a better world. </b>
Wow does not do justice to this absurd statement, but will probably pass the censors more easily than the better response.
<b>I find it incredible that people can come on a public forum and blatantly explain that they are totally selfish people who will not do anything to help somebody else. </b>
Nobody here has done that. They just feel that they are entitled to the same respect and consideration that you demand for the 'people of size'.
<b>Call me 'Saint ParisWat </b>
Not likely if they've read your posts on this or many other topics.
<b>The responsibility to accommodate those that need extra room is definitely not with the offended passenger, but it is most certainly with either the airlines (whom I personally do blame) or the person with "weight issues". </b>
The airlines do accommodate people who need extra space. It is called either Business Class or First Class. If the person with the “weight issues” cannot afford them, they should stay home. They have no right to disaccommodate others.
Nonsense. The airline is selling you transportation and giving you a place to stay while they carry out their end of the bargain. It is your responsibility to make certain that you can fit in the space they are allocating. If you can't, there is Business Class, First Class or stay at home.
<b>Not true. It is your responsibility to make a better world. </b>
Wow does not do justice to this absurd statement, but will probably pass the censors more easily than the better response.
<b>I find it incredible that people can come on a public forum and blatantly explain that they are totally selfish people who will not do anything to help somebody else. </b>
Nobody here has done that. They just feel that they are entitled to the same respect and consideration that you demand for the 'people of size'.
<b>Call me 'Saint ParisWat </b>
Not likely if they've read your posts on this or many other topics.
<b>The responsibility to accommodate those that need extra room is definitely not with the offended passenger, but it is most certainly with either the airlines (whom I personally do blame) or the person with "weight issues". </b>
The airlines do accommodate people who need extra space. It is called either Business Class or First Class. If the person with the “weight issues” cannot afford them, they should stay home. They have no right to disaccommodate others.
Sep 17th, 2015, 10:21 PM
#55
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'If the person with the “weight issues” cannot afford them, they should stay home. '
You are Katie Holmes ? You show the same level of empathy.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...-migrants.html
You are Katie Holmes ? You show the same level of empathy.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...-migrants.html
Sep 19th, 2015, 09:08 AM
#57
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...679_story.html
From the article:
"But in the end, do you really want to be flying in an ever-shrinking, unsafe and unhealthy space that doesn’t respect your human dignity?"
Why do I think that the elitist defenders of the airlines' absurd seating policies would be the first ones screaming if they found themselves in need of more room for health reasons? None of us will be getting taller any time soon, but what if a medication you are taking causes you to gain weight? What if you find yourself at high risk for blood clots?
I could go on. The answer from the elitists will be, ha ha, I will always be able to pay more for a better seat. But what if the good seats are sold out? What if your wealth takes a tumble and you can't afford a premium seat?
Then stay home, they cry! But what if a family member is dying? What if you want to see a grandchild before you croak?
Honestly, defending a corporation at the expense of compassion for human beings is something I will never understand.
From the article:
"But in the end, do you really want to be flying in an ever-shrinking, unsafe and unhealthy space that doesn’t respect your human dignity?"
Why do I think that the elitist defenders of the airlines' absurd seating policies would be the first ones screaming if they found themselves in need of more room for health reasons? None of us will be getting taller any time soon, but what if a medication you are taking causes you to gain weight? What if you find yourself at high risk for blood clots?
I could go on. The answer from the elitists will be, ha ha, I will always be able to pay more for a better seat. But what if the good seats are sold out? What if your wealth takes a tumble and you can't afford a premium seat?
Then stay home, they cry! But what if a family member is dying? What if you want to see a grandchild before you croak?
Honestly, defending a corporation at the expense of compassion for human beings is something I will never understand.
Sep 20th, 2015, 06:34 AM
#58
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I invite any of you who feel that those of us who object to sharing our seating areas to try sitting between two <b>very</b> overweight individuals for ten hours as I had the misfortune of doing once. Neither of these gargantuans made the slightest effort to stay within their seats. They both claimed the arm rest and more with no apologies.
Extreme discomfort aside, had the plane needed to be evacuated quickly, I probably wouldn't have made it since the simple act of leaving my seat to use the restroom became a major production.
I understand that some people are overweight for reasons beyond their control, but most, especially in the United States, are overweight because they eat and drink too much and exercise too little. If it makes me heartless and lacking in empathy for objecting to sharing my space with them, so be it.
I don't defend the airlines for cramming as many as possible onto a plane, but I do understand that they are in business to make a profit. In the past when some few tried offering wider seats with more leg room, they had to raise rates and the few who were demanding more space were unwilling to pay for it. They soon retreated to more cramped seating or greatly reduced the number of more spacious seats into what is now call 'premium economy'.
Truly, I hope that those who so ardently defend the 'rights and/or needs' of obese passengers <b>at the expense of everybody else</b> find themselves, as I did, sitting between two of them on a very long flight. I look forward to hearing their thoughts on the subject afterwards.
Extreme discomfort aside, had the plane needed to be evacuated quickly, I probably wouldn't have made it since the simple act of leaving my seat to use the restroom became a major production.
I understand that some people are overweight for reasons beyond their control, but most, especially in the United States, are overweight because they eat and drink too much and exercise too little. If it makes me heartless and lacking in empathy for objecting to sharing my space with them, so be it.
I don't defend the airlines for cramming as many as possible onto a plane, but I do understand that they are in business to make a profit. In the past when some few tried offering wider seats with more leg room, they had to raise rates and the few who were demanding more space were unwilling to pay for it. They soon retreated to more cramped seating or greatly reduced the number of more spacious seats into what is now call 'premium economy'.
Truly, I hope that those who so ardently defend the 'rights and/or needs' of obese passengers <b>at the expense of everybody else</b> find themselves, as I did, sitting between two of them on a very long flight. I look forward to hearing their thoughts on the subject afterwards.
Sep 20th, 2015, 11:45 AM
#59
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Sleep well Flying.
I've been throuh much worse than being stuck between 2 obeses.
But I don't wish anybody to have the same experience I had.
So be it.
Good to see you realize you have a lack of empathy.
I've been throuh much worse than being stuck between 2 obeses.
But I don't wish anybody to have the same experience I had.
So be it.
Good to see you realize you have a lack of empathy.
Sep 20th, 2015, 12:02 PM
#60
>>Good to see you realize you have a lack of empathy.<<
Has not one thing to do w/ empathy.
I have all sorts of 'empathy' and have several overweight members of my extended family. Some 'did it to themselves' and some it is out of their control (medications, cancer treatments, etc.) I don't look down my nose at <i>any</i> of them. BUT I would not want to sit next to ANY of them on any flight longer than maybe an hour/90 minutes. Just the fact.
And don't pull the "You are blaming the victim instead of the airline" card. I don't blame them - but still would NOT sit next to them in a coach seat.
If the 'great unwashed masses' were willing to pay higher fares and the airlines made coach seats roomier - then it wouldn't be an issue. But when AA tried it it was a failure. So unless and until hell freezes over -- people too large to fit in a coach seat should make other arrangements.
Has not one thing to do w/ empathy.
I have all sorts of 'empathy' and have several overweight members of my extended family. Some 'did it to themselves' and some it is out of their control (medications, cancer treatments, etc.) I don't look down my nose at <i>any</i> of them. BUT I would not want to sit next to ANY of them on any flight longer than maybe an hour/90 minutes. Just the fact.
And don't pull the "You are blaming the victim instead of the airline" card. I don't blame them - but still would NOT sit next to them in a coach seat.
If the 'great unwashed masses' were willing to pay higher fares and the airlines made coach seats roomier - then it wouldn't be an issue. But when AA tried it it was a failure. So unless and until hell freezes over -- people too large to fit in a coach seat should make other arrangements.
