thursdaysd

Further to my last post...

Consider the case of someone who breaks their leg in Europe badly enough they cannot bend their knee. They need to return to the US, and will need to stretch the leg across two neighboring seats. They (or, if they were prudent, their insurance company) will pay for three seats. They will not expect to rest the leg across the laps of their neighbors. Intruding part of your torso into your neighbor's space is just as objectionable, if not more so, than intruding your leg.

Canada seems to have a good solution. Either fly Air Canada, or pay for an extra seat, meanwhile lobbying the US government for similar legislation, just do not expect to occupy part of my space. I have not encountered this particular problem, but if I do, you better believe I will make a g*** awful row about it, and if the person trying to steal my space is embarassed, so much the better. Rudeness shouldn't be tolerated.

pariswat

I'm not obese Thursdayd, but I do hope that you are never in need of help - whatever help - and that you find yourself sitting next to a person thinking like you think now.

one day, I was pushing a wheelchair with a flat tyre, queuing to get tickets at villa d'Este in Italy.
I was therefore blocking people behing me because I couldn't manoeuver well.
The guy behind me squeezed past me and went to buy a ticket in front of me.
God, the guy felt my weight on his shoulder and I nearly yelled at him to get back.
He pretended to be embarassed.
Truth is the guy was a bastard who not only would not help me but would tramp me in order to get what HE wanted.
Truth is also that I was blocking everyone - I could have used some help but people chose to ignore me.

Hope it never happens to you.
For me it did, and now I try to help people a little bit more.

thursdaysd

This is not a matter of someone needing help. This is an issue of someone deciding, voluntarily, to put themselves in a situation where they KNOW AHEAD OF TIME that they will have to steal someone else's space, and where they have the option of not doing so.

NewbE

<I pay for a seat and I expect to occupy all of it myself>
I agree, of course. Trouble is, thursdaysd, you are blaming your fellow passengers for the problem instead of placing the responsibility with the airlines, where it belongs. The airline has collected money from every passenger n the plane, regardless of size; and the airline also knows in advance that their passengers will vary in size. Add in that everyone knows airline seats have become absurdly and dangerously small.

Do you work for the airlines? Because your position suits them to a tee.

<they KNOW AHEAD OF TIME that they will have to steal someone else's space>
Ridiculous!

thursdaysd

No, I do not now, and never have, worked for any airline. I much prefer trains to planes. Of course the airline is also at fault, but so is the passenger who knows they will not fit into an economy seat and expects to be accommodated by other people giving up their space.

Are you suggesting that the person with the broken leg should also be accommodated by neighboring passengers?

I can't imagine what you find ridiculous in a patently true statement.

NewbE

What's ridiculous about it is that the passenger is not "stealing" your space, the airline is.

pariswat

they KNOW AHEAD OF TIME that they will have to steal someone else's space,

As for my example, I knew ahead of time that the kid in the wheelchair would need help, would 'steal' someone's confort, if not space. On buses, he clearly 'stole' space with his wheelchair !! mind you, we can put 2 'normal' people in the footprint a wheelchair takes.

Maybe we should have left the kid at home. In basement, a cellar or ... a tomb.

eliztravels2

The obligation to accommodate those with disabilities lies with the airlines and society as a whole. When a passenger has paid for a seat, only to have someone intrude into that space for several uncomfortable hours, it is that unlucky passenger alone who is bearing the burden. Not quite the same as everyone in a lineup having to wait a few extra minutes because of a wheelchair.

I’m sorry you have experienced such rudeness, pariswat, and hope that is not a common occurrence.

thursdaysd

While naturally deploring the rudeness of the man in the queue WRT the wheelchair, I fail to see the relevance to the case under discussion, where the rudeness (much longer lasting) is being displayed by the obese person.

It is one thing to need assistance because of a sudden disaster or crisis, and entirely reasonable in that situation to hope for - but NOT expect - assistance from a stranger.

It is quite another to deliberately put a stranger in a position where they have no choice but to furnish assistance, no matter whether they want to and no matter how distasteful they find it. The words that come to mind for that behavior are selfish, self-centered and entitled.

All that an obese person achieves by insisting on overflowing into a neighboring seat is to make two people uncomfortable (and probably create a life-long enemy) without having the slightest impact on the airlines. (And BTW, if you think US airlines have tight quarters, you should try flying EasyJet, as I just did.)

You have still not addressed the analogy of the man with the broken leg. Are you suggesting that he should buy a single seat and expect his neighbors to accommodate his leg? And if not, why should an obese person expect similar accommodation - the only difference is that the intrusive flesh is part of a torso instead of attached to it.

What if the obese passenger is a man, and the person in the neighboring seat is a woman with a history as a victim of sexual abuse who finds unwanted touching intolerable? Whose "issues" take priority then?

I really find it hard to believe that supposedly intelligent people can defend the downright arrogance and lack of consideration shown by a person who deliberately plans to intrude their unwelcome flesh into someone else's personal space. For hours on end.

Underhill

"arrogance and lack of consideration"--that would be you, thursdaysd.

thursdaysd

@Underhill - nonsense. I don't know where you're from, but where I grew up, respect for personal space was good manners 101. If for some bizarre reason you don't consider personal space important, I sincerely hope I never find myself anywhere near you.

NewbE

Respect for space? How about respect for another human being?

<All that an obese person achieves by insisting on overflowing into a neighboring seat is to make two people uncomfortable >
Insisting on overflowing?? As if an obese person can alter their size at will!

thursdaysd, you are insisting on shoring up your own self-worth by stealing it from others. Your arguments are indefensible.

scdreamer

I have to agree with thursdaysd - if/when an obese person knows ahead of time he or she will not be able to fit into a seat on a plane, then it is his or her responsibility to make arrangements to remedy that problem. Whether that is achieved by asking the airline to provide an extra adjacent seat, by purchasing an extra seat or by purchasing an upgrade, that should be up to the person who cannot fit into a standard seat.

It's not fair to expect another passenger to give up a part of the seat they purchased to accommodate someone else. Or to be in a position to have to make accommodations for such.

It doesn't have anything to do with respect or personal judgment about the obese person. It has to do with getting what one has paid for.

What is being paid for is --- a space that one can fit into. That goes for each and every passenger.

NewbE

<What is being paid for is --- a space that one can fit into. That goes for each and every passenger.>
Which is the airlines' problem to solve, not the passengers'. Singling out obese passengers is obtuse. Very tall people can't fit into what passes for a seat these days, either. Instead of focussing on the people who make YOU uncomfortable, how about considering the rights of all passengers to be comfortable and safe?

We are all people who pay for a service and deserve to receive that service, period. The airlines love it when we divide against each other, so let's not give them that satisfaction, shall we?

Underhill

Perhaps we need to keep in mind the fact that some people may be on their first flight and have no idea of seating space.

I hope, but not with much enthusiasm, that this will be the last of the judgmental threads. It's sad that there seem to be so many people in the "me, me, me" category, where all that matters is what they want.

janisj

But isn't someone too large to fit in a seat and flopping over totally "me, me, me"? Should airline seats be roomier -- sure. But since they aren't (and won't be as long as most people demand cheap airfares) then folks who are too fat (there - I said it) need to buy two seats.

Fair? Probably not. Fact of life - yes.

Underhill

And if someone can't afford two seats? Ban them from flying?

janisj

Life isn't always fair . . .

It is either that or jeopardizing the safety/comfort of others in the same row.

thursdaysd

"And if someone can't afford two seats? Ban them from flying?"

Oh, please.

1. What about someone who can't afford one seat? Are they "banned" from flying?

2. Flying is not a right. Just ask the people on the TSA watch list.

3. Posters were claiming this was about dignity and self-respect. Someone who actually possessed those qualities would wait until they could afford what they needed, not plan to steal it.

I am out of here.

Craig

I side with Thursdaysd. What rational person believes that one should just suffer for a long flight and sacrifice their personal space, which they paid for? That is just nonsense. The responsibility to accommodate those that need extra room is definitely not with the offended passenger, but it is most certainly with either the airlines (whom I personally do blame) or the person with "weight issues".