Airlines lose seat appeal

CANADIAN PRESS FILE PHOTO

Air Canada and Westjet will be required to provide an extra seat for free to disabled or obese passengers who need the room.
Nov 20, 2008 11:17 AM

THE CANADIAN PRESS


OTTAWA – The Supreme Court of Canada has put its stamp of approval on a regulatory order forcing major airlines to provide an extra seat for free to disabled or obese passengers who need the room.

In a decision released without comment Thursday, the high court rejected an application by Air Canada and WestJet for permission to appeal the order issued by the Canadian Transportation Agency.

The court decision, in effect, upholds the agency's finding that the two carriers were discriminating against the disabled.

The agency ordered the companies last January to adopt a policy of "one person, one fare."

That would mean, for example, that a disabled person who needs additional room for a wheelchair, or an obese person who needs an additional seat, couldn't be charged extra.

It would also mean that, if a disabled person has to be accompanied by an attendant, the attendant would ride for free.

Bus, train and ferry companies have long agreed to such arrangements, but the airline industry has argued it would lose too much money by doing the same."

This sounds like a great step forward for human rights. But it will raise the price for everyone else.

There is no free <s>seat</s> lunch.

Well, disabled is one thing.

Call me politically incorrect, but obesity is usually an avoidable condition. It doesn't really seem fair to reward the behavior that causes it. I would love to have two seats to myself - but, wait ... isn't that called First Class?

scdreamer - as a rehab nurse, the issue of whether or not obesity is a disability is controversial. Statistically, only 5-10% of people who are seriously obese will lose and keep the weight off.

And if we eliminate obesity as a disability because the individual had some &quot;fault&quot; in its creation, then we would also have to eliminate as disabled everyone who contributed to causing their own disabiity - for example, kids who get drunk and wrap their car around a tree and then become paralyzed.

So I am not sure where I stand on either the issue of obesity as a disabling condition or the airline, but it is not as clear cut as it would first appear.

Not sure how human rights come into it. It's not a right to fly in an airplane. Should cars that need to be adapted for disabled drivers not cost any more than the same model/make without the modifications?

Should drinking alcoholics who, because they're drunks &amp; collect SSI for it be entitled to free drinks on the plane? Just askin'...

Not saying I agree or disagree but I see this as a slippery slope.

This is going to be... interesting Who is considered obese to get another sit? Will they weigh the passenger? Or use measuring tape? Or require them to have a doctor's note?

I have long wondered what it would do if we required those with self inflicted problems (for lack of a better word) such as the smokers with lung cancer, or the injured from a motorcycle accident who was not wearing a helmet to pay their own hospital costs. Yes, of course you have a right to be free and not wear a helmet, but I have a right to not subsidize the costs of your preventable hospitalization.

I know several people over the age of 40 who are smokers, and there is not 1 of them who would not quit if they could.

Thinking of smoking [or obesity, for that matter] as a &quot;self-inflicted problem&quot; demonstrates to me an utter lack of insight and clarity of thought.

Now I personally believe that the Canadian court has gone too far in this instance: it seems reasonable to me that a person who requires 2 seats should buy 2 seats. It's just too bad that the discussion could not have remained focused on that question, instead of having been taken on the inane &quot;self-inflicted&quot; question.

Nightmare scenario: being named the official carrier of the Over-eaters Anonymous Convention.

This is a typically Canadian decision, try to appear morally superior but stick the cost to someone else.

Mark

All of us will die of something &amp; it will cost the health system dearly in most cases. I certainly don't agree that those who contract AIDS (in many cases self-inflicted according to Momliz) should not be covered in health insurance paid for by all of us.

I assume Momliz had insurance when she had those children &amp; I had to subsidize that even though I chose to not have kids. We're also paying for knee surgeries for joggers who pound the pavement too long.

I don't think it's right that an airline has to provide a 2nd seat for a caregiver or provide 2 seats for an obese person but I sure won't throw stones at those who have to purchase them.

I hope that this does not pass in the US. On my last flight, our crew had to pass out over 17 seatbelt extensions and borrow some from another flight.I am shocked about how many passengers we are carrying these days that appear to be well over 300 pounds.

I, myself am overweight so am not passing judgement but think that this will open a whole can of worms for EVERYONE.I always try to reseat people when they are next to a really obese person on a transatlantic flight as I know that there evening across the pond will be a living hell for 10 hours!But to get a free seat just because is ridiculous!

Some comments on the newspaper site where I read this were from mothers of toddlers - they're required to pay for a seat for their children but the children obviously can't fly alone so will the airline give Mom a free seat as an attendant? More work for lawyers if/when that question comes up.

And as Faina pointed out who decides how obese you have to be before you get an extra seat....I wouldn't want the job.

A radio phone-in about the topic said that the woman who started the whole mess was born with some condition that caused her to be obese so she is considered disabled. The same phone-in show had a caller who suggested everyone be weighed and charged for a ticket accordingly.

Yes, agree we'll all pay for it.

Would someone especially tall (say Robert Wadlow, 8'11.1&quot; -- one of the few figures I recall from the Guiness Book of World Records) be able to get two seats or three to stretch his legs?

Carrybean, and all, I agree with you to some extent. Anyone trying to quit smoking should get all the help they need, and I would gladly subsidize that, as well as anyone trying to get healthy. But, where does personal responsibility come in? And where do the rights of the obese person end and the rights of the airline begin? Fuel prices are coming down, but still.


And, yes, this thread has been hijacked a bit, sorry!

Having very long legs is not usually considered a &quot;disability&quot; but it certainly is a disability in many aircraft seats. Relevant or not, one gets no choice in the matter of height. I wonder how long it will take for it to be argued that appropriate accommodation (e.g. ability to reserve bulkhead seats) be made for those with long femurs.

The decision only applies to domestic flights.

I think fat people, in most cases, did it to themselves. Most suffer from that very wide spread disease called &quot;hand to mouth&quot;...

Obesity is a lifestyle choice. To force other people to pay for it is obscene--no matter whether it costs $70, $7, or 7 cents.

Even people with thyroid conditions can make lifestyle choices to keep from getting obese--they just have to be more attentive to diet and exercise than a normal person. It's their choice, and if they choose to be fat then they should pay, not everyone else.

I work in an office with several really, really fat people who claim &quot;thyroid conditions.&quot; Invariably they are the ones who eat the doughnuts, cinammon rolls, and whole bags of potato chips or pretzels for a midmorning AND midafternoon &quot;snack,&quot; washed down with a 24-ounce cola, of course. And don't even ask about what their thyroid seems to demand for lunch.

Rufus I hear you. There is one group here in my office, next door to my area, that is like that. I have to walk through that area to get to the data center and every day the common area table is piled high with cakes, cookies, chips, candy, and all kinds of junk food. Of course everyone in that group are huge fat folk. I wonder why? These are the same ones that take the lift rather than the stairs and this is only a building with two floors!

All in all, quite disgusting, but I am sure if you ask them the fatness is caused by a &quot;medical condition&quot;.

Right!

I work with a woman who had gastric bypass surgery. She can't fill her stomach as much as she used to, since it has been surgically limited. She gets around it by eating M &amp; M's constantly, one at a time. She also eats spoonfuls of ice cream, constantly. I guess these things fit well into her newly shrunken stomach. And then she wonders why she isn't losing weight!