Hello all,

I am interested in advice any of you may have on the following matter: a couple months ago, I flew into Frankfurt from the US with the intent to connect on to Tel Aviv. When I checked in from the US, I received boarding passes for both flights. My layover in Frankfurt was brief (1 hour) and my flight from the US was delayed such that we got in only 30 minutes prior to the Frankfurt-Tel Aviv flight. Somewhat miraculously and running faster than I have in a long time, I arrived at the gate for the flight to Tel Aviv 20 minutes prior to the original departure time (it turned out the flight was delayed 20 minutes so I got their 40 minutes prior to the actual departure time). The last bits of boarding were still ongoing but when I presented my boarding pass, they advised me that I could not board because they had already given away my seat. However much I complained, they told me that I was not authorized to board.

I wrote to Lufthansa to complain and they said that since I had a connection time of less than 1 hour due to the delay of the incoming flight, they were allowed to rebook me and that I could not seek any damages from them (EU regulations provide for damages in the amount of up to 600 Euros for involuntarily being denied boarding).

Does anybody have any experience with anything like this? If I wanted to pursue Lufthansa in small claims court in the US, could I do so citing the EU Regulation or is that entirely inapplicable (even though it's cited in Lufthansa's General Conditions of Carriage). Any incite would be much appreciated.

Were you accommodated on the next available flight? What or how much did you lose?

I was rebooked on a flight 12 hours later. I was given 20 Euros worth of meal vouchers.

This has happened to DH and me and we were also delayed 12 hours. When we finally arrived at our destination DH's luggage had been misdirected and we got it the next afternoon. We received a very nice apology and some meal vouchers from British Airways but that's all we got.

It is an awful start to your vacation but I don't think you have much recourse. But all that said, it didn't spoil our vacation. I hope your trip was good once you got there.

This is one thing I don't like about the people of the United States, they are what I call sue happy.

Why do you want to sue? Do you feel singled out and crucified? Do you have to sue every time you feel "wronged"?

As it said in Forrest Gump "sh*t happens". I've missed connections many times. The latest was ORD-SJC. The best alternative was ORD-SAN 4 hours later. 2 hour layover then SAN-SJC. It seems my connecting flight was late and my seat was given away.

I just realized the EU regs didn't exist at the time this happened to us so maybe you will have more luck than we did. Please keep us posted, good luck.

I don't see a case.

If that had happened within the minimum connecting time in FRA, it would be a different scenario.
Then it would have been a denied boarding.
There was a case if you incoming flight had been delayed due to technical problems etc. But not if caused by "natural causes" (e.g. weather, strong headwinds) or 3rd parties (e.g. US airport delays).

What had been bad service is that no one informed you on your incoming flight that you had already been rebooked on the later flight. And the value of vouchers was a bit on the cheap side.

I believe human beings must accept, difficult though it is at times, that we are not in control. We can delude ourselves sometimes but especially when we leave home things sometimes don't go as we wish they would. I think we must accept it as a fact of life and, especially when we travel, do the best we can. Deep breaths at the thought of the "lost" 12 hours may be the best you can.

And Rastaguy, some people from the Unied States. I realize there are no contentious people anywhere else.

Thanks to all for your replies. Unfortunately, the delay on the incoming flight was due to weather--this is the weak link. It would be clear cut if I had actually missed the connection. The fact that I didn't miss it and the fact that I arrived to the gate while boarding was still ongoing is what creates the element of injustice for which I had hoped to seek some type of damages.

Rastaguytoday, I'll very briefly address your comment: the EU set up specific regulations to compensate passengers who were involuntarily denied boarding. When regulations/laws are broken, there is a system to enforce them. Unfortunately, that system is the court system. So while I would agree with you that US Society has become too sue-happy, I don't think that justifies your inept comments regarding any American who tries to enforce their rights.

A 12-hour delay is frustrating and inconvenient, but I doubt anyone thinks its grounds for a lawsuit, especially since this was weather related. It's only involuntary denied boarding if you are at the gate on time. You weren't, granted through no fault of your own, but you weren't at the gate on time and they gave your seat away, as is their right under the circumstances. Perhaps this being a flight to Israel, which entails an added layer of security, played into not being able to bend the rules for a delayed passenger. Just a thought on that last point

It's not worth it to stew over this. Chalk it up the occasional mess-ups that happen when flying and move on.

Sue them? How huge was your inconvenience, what did it cost you and what are you hoping to gain. This was months ago. What is it with everyone wanting to sue.

I agree with the other people here, and I'll take it a step farther. I think you were at fault. You schedued a one-hour layover. You rolled the dice, and you lost.

At 40 minutes prior to "original" departure time, you were a no show and as such, they gave your seat away. End of story. The fact that the plane's departure was delayed 20 minutes beyond the original time doesn't really come into play. Sorry, I don't think you have any grounds for a lawsuit.

I see that you received boarding passes for both flights but it's unclear if both flights were on the same itinerary/booking. If yes, then you might have a valid complaint that the airline (if it was the airline and not a ticket broker or agent) made an error in scheduling a one hour layover. If the flights were on separate bookings, then you made the error. In either case, Lufthansa imposes a one-hour deadline for Tel Aviv flights so I can't imagine why you thought you could make the flight, even if you landed on time.

PS Why do people sign up for Fodor's specifically in order to post these kinds of things, just seeking affirmation for their own poor decision-making?

Lufthansa: <i>" you must be at your departure gate no later than the boarding time stated on your boarding pass"</i>. Seems pretty cut and dried to me - were you or weren't you?

Julia, I think the discussion was worthwhile if only to remind people that even if a connection is legal it may not be smart. It just took an annoying turn with the word "sue" which didn't make much sense. Seeing the world through frustration-tinted glasses.

els baby - I'm just a dumb American who doesn't know how to travel.

Seems to me that the folks responding to your sue-happy attitude don't seem to care about the exacting regulations, when the infraction is minor and due to weather.

As MmePerdu says ""sue" which didn't make much sense".

Neither does your very self-righteous attitude.

I believe that it is perfectly reasonable and proper to bring suit against an airline when they have wronged you. The entire ticketing system is completely rigged against the consumer, and the civil courts are often the only recourse when an airline is arbitrary and in the wrong.

In my view, however, I don't see much likelihood that such an action would succeed in this instance. To my knowledge, you cannot bring suit in one jurisdiction (a small claims court in a U.S. state) based on the laws of a different jurisdiction (the E.U.). The judge (or magistrate, in many states) can apply only the laws of the court's respective State, not those of another State or nation.


<i>This response should be seen only as my personal thoughts. You should not construe it as any sort of legal advice.</i>

<i>"Any incite would be much appreciated."</i>

I think this is funny.

29FEB - I don't think this forum gives out grades for bad grammar, yet.