South Africa "going to the dogs"??

Jun 27th, 2007, 09:25 AM
  #41  
 
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luangwablondes, that must be more a general South African specialty (or mentality). I'm in contact with many people in the SADC and East Africa, all non-Fodorites, often people who asked me for help and promote their travel business. The interesting thing, each time it goes nasty, it's a South African who is involved. I don't want to generalize, but often I'm thinking that in SA there are less people who can discuss things in a more relaxed way, compared to other African countries. Just my personal experience.
nyama is offline  
Jun 27th, 2007, 11:32 AM
  #42  
 
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"All it takes for evil to prevail, is for good men to do nothing"

africanj is offline  
Jun 27th, 2007, 12:07 PM
  #43  
 
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JP99

<<To all those South African's living overseas - you made a decision to leave, now live with it, and if you don't have anything positive to say or contribute to our Country - rather just keep your mouthes shut!>>

Are you JPhermanus or a new JP?

Anyway,you sound like Robert Mugabe when being criticized by the English press!
safarinut is offline  
Jun 27th, 2007, 02:30 PM
  #44  
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Well, it's certainly been interesting reading all these posts. Thanks for responding to my post.
orangetravelcat is offline  
Jun 27th, 2007, 07:18 PM
  #45  
 
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Safarinut I carefully avoided calling you racist, since I have no reason to believe you are, any more than most of us - black or white. However your remarks about nurses were completely gratuitous and implying blackness through a description of laziness is an old, old habit/ trick of discourse my parents' generation knew well. It raises eyebrows in this house I'm afraid - "There he goes!". In addition, I'm afraid none of the indifference you describe surprises or shocks me and so I wonder why you bother to mention it - I have seen similar stuff both growing up in Scotland and later here in South East Asia (the shootings are a different matter and I did not comment on that - your experiences are certainly a counterpoint to the other points of view expressed). Do you know they used to say the "working class" were bone idle in Scotland and there were indeed plenty of people ready to sleep on the job - probably still are. In Thailand the foreigners used to say nearly everyone was lazy - until the economic growth rate outstripped that in their own countries year after year and then Thailand seemed to become a bit of an Asian tiger and suddenly it was a country of "industrious" people. It's a funny old world.

You must have moved to a very nice place, where there is probably a proper social safety net, education is fair to excellent and real poverty can actually be rather difficult to achieve. It could also be a place where people are kept strictly in line through draconian laws, a police force only accountable for crime statistics and deliberate under-education of potentially "difficult" people, but I doubt it. Comparing that to a still-developing country like South Africa or Thailand (the coup here is a bit of an aberration, but we honestly don't worry too much about it) is rather pointless.. no?

That's all .... my explanation.

In short... "You sound like my bloody grandad, mate".

kimburu is offline  
Jun 27th, 2007, 08:00 PM
  #46  
 
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Kimburu

Yes,I do live in a very nice place,thank you!

You can call me anything...just never call me your mate.
safarinut is offline  
Jun 27th, 2007, 09:39 PM
  #47  
 
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I won't Safarinut and probably no loss for either of us there - but I do apologise for the "mate" anyway... I was going to put a ;-) after the last sentence, but I forgot to add it, a busy workday started, and you got back before I could post again. So it goes... Doesn't make much difference, but I don't want to drag things down to the level you understandably implied I had.

I'll get out of here now. I don't belong.
kimburu is offline  
Jun 27th, 2007, 10:20 PM
  #48  
 
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Mbeki, Jacob Zuma, Geraldine Fraser-Moleketi and Manto Tsabalala Msimang
were flying together in the President's jet.
Thabo Mbeki suddenly said: "You know what. I can throw a R500 right now out
of this window and make someone happy."

Jacob Zuma said: "I can throw five R 100 notes out of the window and I will
make 5 people unbelievably happy."

Geraldine said: “I will give government employees 7.25% salary increase and
make millions happy”.

Manto said : "I will can throw ten R 50 notes out of the window and make 10
people very, very happy."

The one pilot looks at the other and says:
"Listen to those 4 showoffs at the back... I can throw all 4 of them out of
the window right now and I will make the whole country very happy!"

jpabel is offline  
Jun 29th, 2007, 09:08 AM
  #49  
 
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Nyama
This thread has made me think. Here is a man that is up for some best guide award and he will not participate in open discussion. Yet he feels he is entitled to critisize those that have said things he does not agree with, and not very nicely at that. What happens if someone on one of his tours disagrees with his 'propaganda'? Makes one wonder, doesn't it?
luangwablondes is offline  
Jun 29th, 2007, 12:03 PM
  #50  
 
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Do you care about any awards when planning your trips? I don't. (I've learned that from those "awards" in my own profession.)
nyama is offline  
Jun 29th, 2007, 12:13 PM
  #51  
 
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To me, it seems ludicrous to suggest that Selwyn "will not participate in open discussion." Entirely to the contrary, he articulated his case clearly.

Now, if one is suggesting that Selwyn chooses not to engage in some sort of bulldog-style posting, where each sentence is dissected and rehashed and where no one's mind really gets changed, that's a different story. In that event, you may have a point.
DonTopaz is online now  
Jun 29th, 2007, 06:45 PM
  #52  
 
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Nyama,

I agree to what you just said 100% like the conde naste list of top 100 places and things like that.....
HariS is offline  
Jun 30th, 2007, 05:59 AM
  #53  
sniktawk
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At least you do not have to worry about car bombs in SA!!
 
Jun 30th, 2007, 09:21 AM
  #54  
 
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nyama
Obviously not. The criteria, means of voting, process of determination, the source, and the such are too often suspect.

rizzuto
I had to reread the thread to discover exactly who was doing the dissecting and rehashing. Woo-wee- rizzuto was really criticizing Selwyn.





luangwablondes is offline  
Jul 1st, 2007, 01:11 AM
  #55  
 
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South Africa is a business.
If i were investing money in a country, then one of my first concerns would be about profit and not about the crime rate.
If the country does not make money it cannot assist it's people. It does not matter who is in power. The principles remain the same.
That is why we may not see a change in government for a long time.
So if, we, the people remain negative then this country will "go to the dogs".
africanj is offline  
Jul 1st, 2007, 11:37 AM
  #56  
 
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I apologize to a select few on the forum for dragging this out, and my comment to several others--- nuts!! I tried to goad Selwyn out, but he is hiding as usual. There are few things that press my buttons like Selwyn’s habits. So, if this is how it is going to be, I am going to take the last shots and end it now. It is not my policy to make comments that may be taken personal by others.

Selwyn’s MO---- “ I am going to answer you in a one off mail and will not respond thereafter”
That’s a cowards way out!!

Selwyn--I don’t give a damn about your business, which seems to be part of any posting, any opportunity you can advertise, there it is. Stay on topic and don’t make it personal. That seems to be a problem of yours. If someone disagrees, you want to make it personal with them. And you did with me.

The crux of the thread had nothing to do with you, but you tried to make it that way. It isn’t all about you. Then you run off like a cry baby because what? We disagree with you. If you are not willing to discuss the problems other people see in South Africa rationally, then certainly, you must be part of the problem. You don’t acknowledge that problems may exist, therefore how can things change for the better. Crime will go unabated, corruption unchecked, and the voice of the people ignored. I hope you are not representative of the people of South Africa. I can’t imagine they are sheep and will follow the likes of you.

If you don’t embrace the rights of others to voice their opinion, no matter how much you disagree or how immoral it may seem to you, then you are in the wrong country. It is a basic tenet of democracy. For SA to evolve it needs lively debate and participation from everyone.
luangwablondes is offline  
Jul 2nd, 2007, 05:14 AM
  #57  
 
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Something to be proud of.

http://tinyurl.com/yvgalr
jpabel is offline  
Jul 2nd, 2007, 01:49 PM
  #58  
 
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hi, jpabel,

read the article - very scary, if true.

IMO it is difficult to judge the reliability of information like that unless you know the adgenda of the informants. as a UK resident, I'm not well-enough informed to judge.

perhaps you are?

regards, ann
annhig is offline  
Jul 2nd, 2007, 02:20 PM
  #59  
 
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I googled Hennie van Rooyen and a couple others.

http://tinyurl.com/2dkd7j

This just seems to be an article on crime in SA using quality named sources.
jpabel is offline  
Jul 3rd, 2007, 09:22 AM
  #60  
 
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thanks, jpabel,

we're flying into Cape town in exactly 2 weeks time and touring from there to Port Elizabeth. we'll try to be sensible and vigilant.

hopefully I'll be posting a trip report about a happy and crime-free holiday at the beginning of august!

regards, ann
annhig is offline  

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