Hi guys;

I have been away for awhile but now would like to ask your help with planning my next winter trip.

One of the destinations is Southern Africa and we are most interested in game lodges/safaris.
This will be our 3rd trip there and now that we are retired do not have as much money to spend. Previously we spoiled ourselves with visits to Singita, Sabi Sabi, and similar luxe lodges in Botswana and Zambia.
The challenge now is to find a quality experience at a more modest cost !
Perhaps a tour that combines cities/towns and country side with some game viewing.
Also would like to see Namibia.
Any advice is welcome!

For game lodges/safaris, Kruger National Park. You have not been there? You can self drive Kruger for $120-$150 per day per person which includes a rental car, gas, camp bungalow, Kruger fees, meals at camp restaurants, everything. We love Kruger, have been to Kruger three times before going on to private ($$$$) safari camps.

regards - tom

I too recommend Kruger, but based on our most recent trips there, I'd advise that you not get the cheapest accommodations. Especially at the older camps, they're likely to be small, dark, and inconvenient. The cottages will likely be much nicer than the bungalows. It's a bit hard to figure out just what is meant by the terms "bungalow", "rondavel", "cottage", etc., but the Sanparks website has photos of all the accommodations, so you'll know what you're getting.

Driving yourself in Kruger is easy and delightful. You can also go on game drives with the rangers in addition to doing your own.

Mala Mala it ain't, but we've always been thrilled when staying in Kruger.

Celia

Have you considered Zimbabwe? Great value, and camps are safe.

There are some more rustic camps in Sabi Sands and Timbavati than you are used to. I did a very nice, relatively affordable trip last year to Mashatu (in SE Botswana), Pafuri in northern Kruger and Arathusa in Sabi Sands. We loved it. Other options are Elephant Plains, Djuma, Gomo Gomo We will try going to Kruger soon.

Russia might not be a good choice for most travelers who want to visit Europe. With its questionable peace and order situation particularly in the regions of Chechnya, the Communist rule impression still resides to most, and frigid climate throughout the country especially during the winter, Russia should be uninviting for most. But that was before. Now, although there are still shadows of the past Soviet, Russia is a place worth to be visited.
Tourism

We have a small lodge at the gate into the Timbavati and do safaris in the various reserves and the Blyde River Canyon by open safari vehicle, bikes, microlight, and even by boat. Our rate is very good at R3300 for 2 nights all included. +27833825098 - we have been running safaris for 20 years and understand traveller's needs.

Hey Christo,

I had exactly the same problem. Well, I mean, I'm not retired, but I too was looking for less expensive lodges (ic less luxury but similar wildlife experience).

So I spent a LOT of time on the web, and found a LOT of info and finally made my decision(s). We're leaving in 5 weeks.

To help others I summarized my whole experience in a thred hre on Fodors. You can find it at:

http://www.fodors.com/community/afri...und-kruger.cfm

Note; this is ONLY for Kruger area, not the rest of South-Africa, nor the Tuli block.

Hope it helps!

Ciao,

J.

TomCats
Why doesn't your profile state any lodge/camp email/webpage as you are not shay to promote your place?

As South Africa is ROGUE regarding big cat breeding and all that is involved it it would be nice to have your info for verification whether it meets travelers ethics.

pixelpower - thanks so much for "reposting" that link. I lost my bookmarks and I couldn't find it again. It's a great list.

Christo - we would love to welcome you back to Singita. If you haven't stayed at Singita Pamushana in the Malilangwe Reserve in Zimbabwe that would be a great safari experience to consider. The location is breathtaking and you have 140,000 acres of reserve all to yourself. An all inclusive stay is priced at $800 per day per person. We also have a great special running at Singita Kruger National Park, four nights for the price of three.

Hoping to see you again.
Janalyn Froese/Singita Game Reserves

Just for the record; my list contains mostly lodges that are priced less than half of the Singita price mentioned above. Iow around 300$ pppn. That is still 500€ per night for a couple, so not cheap eiher, and was an absolute limit for me.

To each his own, but I could never afford 800$ pppn. And even if I could I doubt I would. I remember a big discussion here when the top place in the Okavango Delta (*), Mombo, started asking above 1000$ pppn. Now it seems a lot of other lodges are asking almost the same. So how much is Mombo now then?

Ciao,

J.

(* OK, that is a discussion in itself)

J - for the record, I do want to go to Mombo. But chances are it will not happen. It's currently $1800 pppn plus trans. Yikes!

I have to tell you that your list and that thread got me to consider all kinds of places when we go back to S Africa. There are many private reserves that we can visit. I know we might not get the experiences we've had in the past, but we might! So, we'll only see leopards one day out of four - but we'll see rhinos and suni. I've not seen wild dogs at the high end lodges. My husband is a golfer so we are going to a golf resort that has a game reserve. (no, not Sun City, and yes sv, I am looking into their conservation practices). This trip I'm currently planning is so varied, and because it's so much less expensive, we can stay much longer. I just wanted to thank you for opening my eyes to all the other possibilities. WS and &Beyond are not the only choices. They're great, but out of my price range.

Christo, you mentioned wanting to keep costs more moderate. I posted this elsewhere before, but here is a list again of some of the more affordable safari lodges inside the greater Kruger National Park (all priced below $350 per night):
Elephant Plains
Arathusa
Nkorho Bush Lodge
Gomo Gomo
Kambaku
Simbavati
Mohlabetsi
Pondoro
Africa on Foot
nThambo
Shindzela
Umkumbe
Umlani
There's 13 affordable lodges to choose from, and there are others too. Nothing wrong with Singita and other more expensive lodges, but for those on a budget the greater Kruger National Park has a lot to offer.
Hope this helps!
Onne from Wild Wings Safaris

Thanks Onne. What area/reserves/parks do you consider to be "greater Kruger National Park"? And then what is simply "Kruger" and/or "Kruger National Park"? I'm generally confused by what to call Kruger and what to not

regards - tom

Christo have you considered Mala Mala? Wedged between Kruger and Sabi Sands, it's not outrageously priced and since it's so comfortable and the rooms are so massive, it may be worth tucking into your trip of less expensive camps. The game drives were quite fabulous, all that private land to explore, and the camp itself was nice enough to stay a week. It's ideal for families, retirees and anyone really. A vacation and safari in one. Another great tented camp in Kenya is Kichwa Tembo. Not too expensive and anyone will tell you it's rated highly and highly regarded. Best of luck.

Tom, I have noticed the definitions of "greater Kruger" differs a bit from one person to the next. First of all, the terms "greater Kruger" and "greater Kruger National Park" are the same. For me, the definition of this is really simple: any reserve or property which is not separated by fences from the rest of the Kruger National Park, is part of the greater Kruger National Park. In fact, stricly speaking one should speak of the "Great Limpopo Transfrontier Park" which now extends into Zimbabwe and Mozambique as well.
But for our purposes, I refer to all those reserves that are open to Kruger (no fences inbetween) as being part of the greater Kruger. This includes the Sabi Sand, Timbavati, Klaserie, Balule, Manyeleti, Umbabat, Mjejane and a few other smaller concessions and reserves that share an unfenced boundary with Kruger. There is free movement of animals between and through all these reserves and the rest of the Kruger National Park.
My definition excludes other game reserves in the same area, but fenced in on their own, for example Kapama, Thornybush, Guernsey, Tshukudu, Marloth Park, Kwamadwala, Edeni, Makalali, Selati and many others. These are in the greater Kruger area, but not part of greater Kruger. Nothing wrong with these reserves, they have similar bush and similar animals, but by nature they are very different to the greater Kruger National Park, because they are smaller and fenced on their own. There has to be much more management of animal populations, and for a reserve of say 10,000 ha they can only have so many lions, so many elephants, etc. When I am on safari, I don't like seeing fence lines. Some smaller reserves like Kapama will make a point of avoiding going near the fence lines during game drives, so you don't "feel" like you're in a small game reserve. Other small reserves to me feel too much like a glorified zoo, a bit too artificial. That's just my personal feeling. I like the vastness and wildness of greater Kruger. The total area of the Great Limpopo Transfrontier Park once fully implemented will be almost 4 million hectares.
Lastly, when speaking about the Kruger National Park itself (not greater Kruger), I am referring only to the national park, the part that is open to the public.
Sorry for the long reply, hope this all makes sense!

Lionlove, interesting to see you add Mala Mala with the less expensive camps. In 2010 a standard room at Mala Mala main camp costs $575 and in 2011 $625. Yes, not as expensive as Singita, but certainly not among the cheapest.

Onne from Wild Wings Safaris

Onne - thanks. That's how I think of it, too. I hope that is how most professionals refer to it as well. For first timers to the area, this would give them some idea that not all "Kruger" camps are created equal. I didn't know thornybush was still fenced.

If they can get the Transfrontier park accomplished it will be the most amazing park on the planet.

christbir - good girl ;-)

Many thanks Onne, your explanation of the Kruger fence (absence of it) makes sense. Several times I've had guides at Timbavati and Sabi Sand camps mention lion prides, leopards, elephant herds, etc. they think had crossed over, disappeared, back into Kruger.

So the Great Limpopo Transfrontier Park will at 4 million hectares will be -twice- as large as Kruger (2 million). And I see by looking at a map that Limpopo will share Kruger's northern border. WOW, that's impressive!!!

regards - tom

Thank you all so much.
There is a lot of great info here to follow up on and I already have looked up some lodges mentioned above.
Cara999 and Celia your advice on car rental and self drive has spurned some interest with us although we have some concerns with car theft and robbery - are these unfounded. Did you pick up the cars in Joberg?

I am aware of a number of lodges in the Madikwe Reserve, an area where we have not been.
Does anyone have any recommendations for this area ?

I will say that we have been very fortunate to have stayed at Sabi Sabi, Singita, Mombo, Jao, Duma Tao which were all fantastic but are now just to expensive for us !

Christo