africa_fan

Hi there all,

I was reading another thread which stumbled into the issue of game viewing in Madikwe, including the number of other vehicles. It said the vehicle numbers/queues at sightings was quite high.

I had always thought that the number of vehicles was low, particularly in comparison to some of the renowned 'busier' places such as SSGR.

Can anybody who has been advise on this. I'm considering a visit to Madikwe next September but I prefer quieter areas if possible. I was looking at Madikwe Safari Lodge, Mateya and Makanyane (with Mateya probably the favourite).

Any advice appreciated.

PredatorBiologist

In Madikwe sightings are limited to 3 vehicles so having a large grouping is not a problem but it is true that at special sightings like wild dogs there can be a que waiting for a turn in the 3 vehicle limit. Hopefully people who have visited during different seasonal times will comment but when I was there in March of 2006 we saw very few other vehicles despite that there are roughly 20 different lodges in the reserve and at that time lots of roads were closed from rain forcing more contact. We had one wild dog sighting which was the only time I think there was a que and we were the ones who found the dogs so not much of an issue for us. When I stayed at Buffalo Ridge Lodge in the far western area of the reserve it seemed more remote than the east side of the reserve and we simply did not see other vehicles once we got away from the lodge. It helped that I had an excellent guide (Moremi) who rarely used the radio preferring to find his own sightings so that kept us in our own space.

The comparison with the Sabi Sand is that both reserves are very large but in Sabi Sand the camps are carved into their smaller concessions and restrict their driving to within their areas. In Madikwe you can drive in virtually the entire reserve (except right around other lodges) but so can everyone else.

Tuppy1

As advised by PredatorBiologist, sightings in Madikwe are restricted to 3 vehicles.

I was a guest at Madikwe Hills Private Game Lodge for 6 days in October and only twice were there 2 other vehicles in attendance.

During some drives we saw other vehicles and traded friendly greetings, but usually they were distant sightings.

We were very fortunate with our game viewings and I can't wait to return next year!

Roccco

Ditto on what the first two posters said. One thing I love about Mateya is that there are only a maximum of two couples in each vehicle and the guide wears an earpiece so the action he hears on the radio is not intrusive to the guests (yet he does have one ear free to also have the guests attention).

Most vehicles I saw in Madikwe did have more than four persons, so I do enjoy the way that Mateya does things. Also, at Mateya, chances are that you will be treated to an incredible private dinner in their beautiful wine cellar...awesome.

cary999

Was it my response in the other recent thread?

To repeat myself, I spent 5 nights at Madikwe Hills lodge in May of 2007.

The game drives there were the least productive/interesting of any of the six other safari camps I have been to. The game was concentrated around obvious man made water holes. Driving off road is permitted but there are very tight rules about doing so. It seemed that 10 minutes of game viewing took 1 hour of driving about. We were the first one at a wild dog sighting (only 2 dogs in the reserve at that time) and we could only stay about 10 minutes because of queued vehicles.

Madikwe Hills is gorgeous lodge. I met two ladies there who had just come from Leopard Hills and Kings Camp (also in South Africa). After their first game drive they asked me if it were a typical game drive. I said yes. They said that the other two camps were much much better. I replied that they were doing their safari backwards, they should have done those two camps after Madikwe Hills. They agreed. (That is what I was doing, next went to Kings Camp then Leopard Hills, five nights each)

I did a trip report on all of this, it's somewhere around here.

regards - tom

Roccco

Tom,

Should you visit again, try November. Each of the last two Novembers I have had terrific luck with gameviewing in Madikwe, although my guide tells me that August/September.

Last November I saw wild dogs daily, a very rare brown hyena, a couple different lion prides, including two beautiful 3 year old brothers on a wildebeest kill, far more elephants and rhinos than I had seen in the Sabi Sand (and not as accustomed to vehicles, either, adding a level of excitement) and much more.

Last week in Madikwe I had the most incredible sighting of sixteen wild dogs on a kill, saw three different prides of lions, including a pride of 13 (and this with the adult males away, so it was even larger), plentiful rhinos and elephants, and a host of other animals.

5 nights in one lodge is a long time. I would have split it up with a couple different lodges in different parts of the reserve.

cary999

HI Rocco - happy to see you are still alive and still an Africaphile.

It's perhaps not fair to judge a camp forever on only 5 nights, but hey, until I can afford a month at each, it's the best I can do

In May 2007 there were only two wild dogs there. Some months ago the 30 or whatever dogs had dug beneath the fence and escaped. Hope the current pack stays put. There are elephants there but my two guides (yes I had two different guides) were very wary of them. They told me the eles were imported from Zimbabwe and were very skittish, known to attack vehicles and turn them over. My sightings of eles has been better in SSGR or Timbavati Reserve, or even in Kruger.

The fact that they can only drive off road IF the sighting is one of the big five and then only on certain turf/grass and no "scouting" for the big five is not to my liking. (Please correct me if I'm wrong, anybody). I much prefer reserves where the vehicles can go anywhere. I like to stay 4 or 5 nights in one camp, I think it gives me a good feel for the place. I'm a slow learner

regards - tom

Doogle

Hi there

It also dpends where in Madikwe you are, the top area lke Buffalo Ridge which is a nice camp, but I saw NO game apart from 3 elephant I would avoid. The area with Jaci, Etali, Mateya, all great. I love Etali Lodge, just because I found it smaller and warmer. The Madikwe is lovely, but if it is your first Safari I would not do Madikwe.

Now the difference between Madikwe and the Sabi Sands Lodges. Madikwe there are no traversing boundaries, basically the vehicles are allowed anywhere they would like to be, and should there be a good sighting then there can be a cue. Sabi Sands...Mala Mala, Sabi Sabi, Londolozi, Singita, they all have their own travesing areas, so Mala Mala cannot go onto Londolozi's area, they can look at each other across the river, but do not cross. Therefore if there is an awesome sighting at Mala Mala only they willget to see it no one else, which makes for less traffic.

cary999

It's not about traversing rights. It's about game viewing. I'll bet that at ANY camp in Sabi Sand (on the average) you will see more game in one or two hours than you will see all day in Madikwe Reserve using any camp.

regards - tom

Doogle

Hi Tom

I am in total agreement with you, I donot think Madikwe is a good game viewing destination, I was the one that said so in the first place, I would always say go to Sabi Sabi over madikwe, the game is far superior, Maikwe is a restocked Game Reserve, Sabi Sabi is well established, there is just no comparison!

cary999

Well said Doogle

regards - tom

sniktawk

I have not been to Madwike for around 5 years, so my view may not be current.
There is a fine array of animals, OK they were all imported from somewhere (yes the elephants came from Gonarezhou, I cannot believe they are still telling the skittish story), but nobody complains about this at Phinda.

There are probably too many lodges and thus too many vehicles, just like the smaller parts of Sabi Sands. It is however a lot cheaper than Sabi Sands, probably because they do not have permanent trackers on the ground to find predators.
It is also a fabulous example of providing employment for the local community, in an area where poverty was extremely high.

Roccco

Ideally, a combination of the Sabi Sand and Madikwe would be done for visitors having 6 nights to dedicating to a safari. This would be the best of both worlds and it would not even cause the loss of a single game drive as Federal Air has frequent flights going out to both areas from Joburg.

I agree with Sniktawk's comment about the value. In my opinion, Mateya surpasses any other lodge I have visited and I have visited dozens others, including at least three which I have at one time or another seen voted as the #1 destination in the world by either Conde Nast Traveler or Travel & Leisure, yet Mateya is very reasonable in comparison, possibly $500 per person per night less in one case. It is the perfect destination for any couple that is "still a couple" if you know what I mean.

Doogle

hmmmmm rates versus luxury....

Look not taking anythiong away from mateya it is beautiful and it is luxurious, and the rte is R5900.00 on their website.

Rattrays at Mala Mala - a delicious safari camp - $875.00 (main Camp- $575) but Rattrays is in the league of Mateya and the rate is R100.00 more expensive but you get the most phenomenal game!!

Founder CAmp at Londolozi is R5200.00 and the Granite Suites which are decedant and amazing are only R6200.00 so if we are considering price, I would far rather be in the Sabi Sands.

I am not telling you Madikwe is awful as it is not I just think that if you have seen all the big game and you are looking for a more chilled reserve with not much to do and you can spend hours discussing grass or just want a gorgeous room with nice views then go to Madikwe, but if you want Big Game in abundance then the Sabi Sands it is!

Roccco

One thing I struggle with is a luxury lodge that does not include alcohol in its pricing, as is the case, I believe, with Ratray's.

At Mateya, even if they open a couple bottles of wine with each dinner, and these are wonderful South African wines, it is always included, as are all other alcoholic drinks. Additionally, should the guests like, they are also free to go down to the cellar and pick an extra special bottle of South African or French wine, fine cognacs and even cigars, at an additional price, of course.

Gardyloo

We've stayed at Buffalo Ridge during our two times at Madikwe. Basically there are two areas with lodge concentration - one in the western portion of the reserve and the other in the eastern. The concentrations are far enough apart that the lodges seldom interact in game drives, so you're not competing with the whole reserve, just those in your area, similar to Sabi Sands (although way less density of lodges per square mile or km.)

Three vehicles on site is the max; I recall the maximum standbys that we've experienced was another 2 or maybe 3 vehicles. So you're not alone, but not hyper-congested either. Madikwe has such a spacious feel compared to SSGR that it's not very comparable (IMO.)

napamatt

I stayed at Makanyane in February 2005 for four nights.

The link to the trip report is in the SA trip report thread.

Makanyane is a delightful camp. The rooms are superb, the service excellent, the food wonderful. We enjoyed a lovely dinner by the pool one night, a spectacular setting. We had ok game viewing in Madikwe. We were lucky that several Lions were on Makanyane's property so we did spend time with them. We also saw the four Cheetah brothers and 5 wild dogs on our last morning.

In February the flies in the central plain are a huge nuisance, so I would ask that specific question of the time of year you are visiting. It was so bad I could not hold my video camera still.

There are very strict rules concerning off road driving and also considerably less roads than in Mala Mala (my only SSGR experience to date). While sightings were limited to 3, we did bump into a lot of vehicles, all traversing the same roads.

As a place to see Wild Dogs (or at least maximize the chance of seeing them, it is excellent) for general game quality, SSGR is head and shoulders above, though like any safari, each day is different and there have been plenty of slow days at Mala Mala.

Big plus obviously is no malaria.

Hope this helps.

Matt

sniktawk

The Madwike experiment began in 1992 and involved the largest movement of game ever undertaken between 1992 and 1999. Animals are still being added, it is not natural but what is certainly not Sabi Sands where game management is intensive.
Viewing is managed and limited but so is Sabi Sands, at least you do not have the problem of driving around your own concession for 1 and1/2 hours at the start of every drive.
If you want to go somewhere wild go to see the Rhino in Luangwa or Okavango these come from South Africa, or perhaps more interesting the Lions in Gir India the majority of which were sourced from Etosha.
Both Madikwe and Sabi Sands are artificial, both are very busy but Sabi Sands has far higher densities of lodges per hectare and as a result numbers of vehicles are also higher. By going to Sabi Sands you will help the local community as you will in Madikwe. If you choose not to support Madikwe then this employment will go and discourage the many other initiatives of a similar nature that are currently under way or proposed.
Just out of interest what animals were destroyed in Australia?

HariS

Our Gir lions are stocked from Etosha? I didn't know that. Either way, i don't see their long term survival ..... Gir forest space is competing with the ever increasing population that threatens it's very existance.

Ken: A few larger SSGR reserves don't share traversing rights with other lodges.

amolkarnik

Are lions in Gir stocked from Etosha? I am genuinely surprised. Isnt the Asiatic lion a subspecies? Arent Asian lions a bit smaller? How do they control conflict? Cross breeding?