We are in the process of booking a trip for our family for Mid December and are struggling between Kenya and Tanzania. Any advice?

From mid-Dec, both countries, go into Holiday Season prices, so be forewarned.

If the migration is of interest, then the wildie herds can be found in the Ndutu or South East Serengeti areas.

Otherwise, with the exception of the Ngorongoro Crater in Tanzania, you can have the same experiences in Kenya and often for better prices. Also depending on how long a trip (less than 10/days), it might only make sense to visit one country; if up to 2/weeks, you can visit both countries.

What are your interests? Are there any particular itineraries you are considering? If so, post here and then we can comment.

Thanks Sandi

We have three kids, two teens and a 9 year-old. My husband and I have been to Kenya (on our honeymoon, so it was a long time ago), but first time for the kids. Looking for a mix of activities, am worried kids may be overloaded with just game viewing in a 4X4.

The itinerary we are now looking at is this: (for Kenya)

Arrival, night in NBO

Naivasha (3 nights)

Sweetwater tented camp (1 night)

Samburu (Serena, 2 nights)

Masai Mara (Kichwa Tembo, 3 nights)

In Tanzania

Lake Manyara (Maramboi tented camp, 3 nights)

Sopa Ngorogoro (2 nights)

Serengeti Savannah Camps (2 nights)

Serengeti Sopa (2 nights)

What do you think?

The itinerary we are now looking at is this: (for Kenya)

Arrival, night in NBO

Naivasha (3 nights)
--- why 3/nts here? Unless 1/day to Lake Nakuru; what's on tap for the other 2/days?

Sweetwater tented camp (1 night)

Samburu (Serena, 2 nights)
--- You could take 1/day from Naivasha and add it here, but....

Masai Mara (Kichwa Tembo, 3 nights)
--- gather you're flying from Samburu to Masai Mara!

In Tanzania
--- assuming flying from Kenya to Tanzania!

Lake Manyara (Maramboi tented camp, 3 nights)
--- Maromboi is mid-way between Tarangire/Manyara, and a bit of distance from each, but why 3/nights? At this time Manyara is a better visit, as coming out of the "short" rains of Nov and early-Dec the game tends to disperse from Tarangire!

Sopa Ngorogoro (2 nights)

Serengeti Savannah Camps (2 nights)

Serengeti Sopa (2 nights)
--- Unless it's a matter of availability, you'd be better staying at Savannah for the duration.

I'd suggest:
Day 1 - Arrive NBO - o/n
Day 2 - NBO - sightseeing: Karen Blixen Museum, Giraffe Center (you can handfeed the giraffe), Sheldrick Elephant Orphanage; lunch at Carnivore or other (lots of cuisine choices in NBO) - o/n
Day 3 - Drive to Nanyuki to "salt-lick" hotel where game come to drink from dusk/dawn you can view from hotel room - o/n Serena Lodge
Day 4 - Drive to Samburu - o/n Serena Ldge or Intrepid's Camp or Larsen's Camp
Day 5 - Samburu - o/n
Day 6 - Drive to Ol Pejeta; Jane Goodall Chimp Sanctuary; night game drives - o/n Sweetwater's
Day 7 - Drive to Lake Nakuru - o/n
Day 8 - Early drive (1/hr) to Lake Naivasha; boat ride to Crescent Island for walking safari amongst tame game; afternoon flight to Masai Mara - o/n Serena Ldg or Intrepid's Camp (they have an Adventurers Program, great for children all ages, depending on your kids... it's fun)
Days 9 & 10 - Masai Mara - o/n
Day 11 - Flight to Nairobi/Wilson; connect to flight to Kilimanjaro/JRO Tanzania - o/n in Arusha
Day 10 - Drive to Manyara - o/n Kirurumu Camp
Day 11 - Drive to Ngorongoro; afternoon crater tour - o/n Sopa or Serena Ldgs
Day 12 - Ngo - option: morning crater tour; or drive via Oldupai Gorge w/stop; game drive to Ndutu or SESerengeti - o/n Ndutu Lodge, Savannah Camp (or others)
Days 13, 14 & 15 - Ndutu/SESerengeti - o/n
Day 16 - Drive to Karatu; stay at coffee plantation; highlands walk or visit elephant caves or other activities (school, orphanage) - o/n Gibb's Farm, Plantation Lodge, Tloma Lodge
Day 17 - Drive to Arusha or to JRO for homebound; or flight to NBO for homebound.

Believe that's a good mix of different environments and game, activities out of vehicle especially for the children.

Accommodations are suggestions, depends on availability at time of booking and your budget. These are all mid-priced properties and a mix of lodges and tented camps. Intrepid's has "family" tents with two tents joined by a screened breezeway with sofas.

Hope this helps.

I'd have to chime in with Sandi on the length of some of the stays that you have - the kids may become very antsy over so many game drives - Sandi has some excellent ideas & things for kids to do.

But just wanted to jump in to say that if you have time - a beach portion in Zanzibar could be really fun for the kids - one of the resorts on the eastern side of the island would be nice for them. An idea, if you wanted to do that, is to put it in the middle of Kenya & Tanzania so it breaks things up for them.

A thought, anyways!

Thanks for the suggestions. Actually, what I meant was that I was trying to make a decision between Kenya and Tanzania - around a 10 day trip in either country. I had originally considered combining the two, then somehow that went out of favour (although right now I can't remember why? - maybe too much flying around - can't stomach 3 flights in one day).

The logic between 3 nights in Naivasha was just to take it easy, assuming the first day we drive up from NBO in the afternoon (after seeing the elephant orphanage - our flight the previous day arrives too late for us to do that), which gives us only two full days for going around in that area. Is that too much?

Right now I am leaning towards Kenya - I am not crazy about flying, so for me the less zipping around in tiny aircraft the better. Although the crater does beckon....

as you can imagine I am spending all my days on the computer and all my nights going over the itinerary in my head, to the detriment of house and home....

What a great place, this forum!

Fwiw, my kids (ages 5 and 8 at the time) did 14 days of game drives and never got bored. If there is one thing in this world that generally gets MOST kids to sit still for more than 5 seconds at a time, it's animals. There is plenty of time for them to burn off energy/decompress in between the game drives each day. My crew wanted to stay out all day, every day because you never knew what might happen next.

My best advice is to carefully select your guide. You definitely need one that embraces kids and is willing to teach them (rather than treating them like a necessary evil). By the end of our safari, my 5-year old was able to identify the tracks of more than 2 dozen different species with no assistance. My 8-year old was actually tracking various animals based on tracks and spoor. They both could tell you all kinds of things about almost every animal we ran across (diet, habitat, call, sex, etc.). They both retained well more than twice the amount of info that their parents did. This was all due to the incredible guides we had along the way and the fact that kids' minds are like sponges.

In re-reading this I now see what you were saying about one country or the other! I also just realized that you are the same person I responded to about DK Safaris on the other thread!

If you do decide to go with DK Safaris, do check into the price of Daniel going with you as he is incredible with the kids. On our first safari in 2006, he was our safari director & we had an 8 yr old in the group. Daniel was fabulous with him, and he learned so much. It was nice to see. As a goup of 5 already, I'm betting that him going with you would not be much more at all!

Daniel has two young boys himself, we had the pleasure of having suipper with them one night in Nairobi - they are adorable, so it's no wonder Daniel takes to kids so much!

If only Kenya, then take the Days 1 - 11 and you're set.
Most of the flights arriving in evenings. You get to your hotel, shower and sleep (usually very very well). You'd be surprised how good you feel next morning and ready to go. With Day 2 being spent in Nairobi sightseeing, if anyone gets hit with jetlag you have that afternoon at leisure. Then commence safari the next day.

If you have enough days like 14 days , I would suggest a day in Nairobi on your arrival and the 02 nights in Maasai Mara, one nite in lake Naivasha (hells Gate), one nite flamingo lake (lake nakuru National Park and Rhino sanctuary), one night at Treeops, 02 nights in Samburu lodge, and then back to Nairobi (rest for one night), fly to Arusha or drive (whichever), spend a nite in Arusha to esplore Arusha National Park, one nite in Lake Manyara (Wildlife lodge), one nite in Nogorongor Sopa lodge..explore the crater for ha laf day, 02 nights in Serengeti National Park staying at Serengeti Sopa lodge. Return to Arusha and fly to Zanzibar to relax at Blue Bay Resort for a few days.
I think you will be done. Think about it.

We are now revisiting the idea of a combined trip, covering Naivasha (3), Sweetwaters (1) , Ngorogoro(2) and Serengeti(3). From what I have read it seems reasonable to do consider Masai mara and Serengeti interchangeable? What does everyone think?

>>We are now revisiting the idea of a combined trip, covering Naivasha (3), Sweetwaters (1) , Ngorogoro(2) and Serengeti(3). From what I have read it seems reasonable to do consider Masai mara and Serengeti interchangeable? What does everyone think?<<

If you choose both countries, realize there will be additional Visa fees. If on US Passports, Tanzania Visa is $100/person, including for the child. You also have to have Yellow Fever inoculations and proof of same to enter Tanzania from Kenya.

Now, if ending at Sweetwaters, you have to get back to Wilson (domestic) or JKIA (international) airport in Nairobi for flight to Kilimanjaro/JRO in Tanzania.

Alternative would be shuttle bus, cheaper, but a long (5-6/hr) trip.

Once in Tanzania an overnight in Arusha before heading next morning (5/hrs) to Ngorongoro for afternoon crater tour and overnight. Unless you plan to visit the crater next morning, and even if you do, you don't necessarily require another o/n at Ngorongoro, you can just head out to the Serengeti.

Then to the Serengeti... the Ndutu area of the Ngorongoro Conservation Area (NCA) or SESerengeti where you can catch the migration. Space here could be the Ndutu Lodge, availability dependent or tented camps. The latter, will be more expensive than at the lodge which is often booked a year in advance.

From here for homebound, the drive from the Ndutu or SESerengeti area will take up much of daylight hours to Arusha or you can fly. Then depending on your international flights, if out of Nairobi, you'll have to fly or take shuttle bus; if out of JRO, then homebound from here.

The Mara and Serengeti can be considered interchangeable, but for December if wanting to catch the migration, then the Ndutu area or SE Serengeti.

If you don't like little planes, then your option is time consuming long road trips. These two countries might be close on a map, but distances aren't.

The balls in your court!

After much, much wrangling of hands, we have decided to go to Tanzania.

A few new questions, all you better informed readers can help some more:

We are looking at two reverse orders for the parks:

Arusha, Tarangire, Manyara, Crater, Ndutu and central Serengeti

Arusha, Central Serengeti, Ndutu, Crater, Manyara, Tarangire.

Any significant differences?

Also thinking of Treetops Tarangire - I have read the gaming and location may not be ideal? Maybe it's good to leave it to the last when we will probably be exhausted and happy to lie around a little bit? What's the take on tarangire in December? Any other suggestions for accommodation?

Thanks guys.

Tanzania is great choice but traveling in December with 3 kids can be challenging. November to early January are "transition months" in terms of wildlife patterns and predictions are fruitless. Everything depends on the rains. In a dry year you may see very little at Ndutu for example and it may be very dusty. Spending time there under such circumstances may be boring for the kids.

The parks you mentioned and the routings are the standards - well-known, well-traveled and popular. There are pluses and minuses for both routings that cannot be discussed before learning more about what you are planning to do and where you will be staying!

Actually, there is a more important question! What is your tour operator planning to do to keep the kids engaged? You will be driving and driving and after the first three days your kids may be totally uninterested in stopping for another zebra or lion sleeping under a tree.

The northern circuit simply does not have well-publicized activities for families along the same level as Laikipia and other areas in Kenya for example. The activities are available but takes extra planning and involvement of 3rd parties.

Can you post your complete itinerary as suggested by your tour operator?

Itinerary as it now stands

Arusha (2 nts) - canoe safari

Tarangire Treetops (2 nites)- bush walks

Manyara - Serena, 2 nites- Mountain biking, village visit

Crater: Sopa

Ndutu - Lemala

Serengeti: Sopa

Or in reverse.

I was reading up on Gibb's farm and it seems like a great place with lots of activities, and was wondering whether that could replace Manyara Serena. Not sure whether its location would allow easy access to Manyara NP.

My kids are fairly laid back and do not need to be occupied with activities almost the time - right now it looks as if the hard core safari driving will mostly be in the 4 days in Serengeti, the other places all seem to offer something alternative every day.

>> Tarangire Treetops (2nts)<<
>> Ndutu - Lemala<<

Not knowing your budget, but compared to some of the earlier and other properties you've shown, have you gotten the price for these two properties? Expensive! In Tarangire, in the same vicinity would be Boundary Hill or Kikoti that would be easier on the budget.

You can certainly do game drive at Manyara, even biking in/around the Rift Valley and overnight at Gibb's. Drive time between the park and Gibb's is maybe 1/hr (or less). A nice spot to break up safari game drives... do highlands hikes or visit the elephant caves, an orphanage or school.

yes, we have gotten the prices, as our budget inches up. I guess as the numbers got bigger each increase seemed less in comparison!