anita19

I have been ready to book a trip to south africa acatually was going to book the airfare monday and do separate private or group tours since i couldnt find the right package but now 2 people ,friends have told me they consider south africa very dangerous and tourists and people who live there are held up by gunpoint in cape town,johanasburg etc..just calling a taxi so i am afraid now to take my son . both of therse people have traveled to south africa in the past year. what do you think? anita

matnikstym

I think your two friends are nuts for telling you that.
Crime is everywhere, including South Africa but look at the numbers: in 2006 there were 358,096 visitors from America, 307,003 visitors from Asia and 1,381,881 visitors from Europe. (source: satourism.net)
How many crimes against tourists have you heard about? It does happen but read the forums of all the people who have come back without being held by gunpoint for calling a taxi, mugged, robbed or anything else. Yes, crimes do occur but if you take precautions you'll be fine, but that would apply to any large city in any country in the world.
Take your son and have a great time, South Africa is a beautiful country.

scootr29

I think any city is as safe as you want to make it...but when every business, home, hotel, gas station, car dealership, florist, mall has a fence around it, topped off with barb wire I think you can come to two conclusion. There is either one helluva a fence salesman in Joburg or it is not the safest city in the world.

But Joburg is a small part of South Africa. I would consider South Africa very safe.

TravlinFool

I realize you're only trying to gather information to make an informed decision, but no one on this board has the ability to predict if you'll be safe or not in South Africa. Or London. Or China. Or Disneyland. Those who have gone to SA and come back in one piece will tell you it's perfectly safe. Those who have had problems or know of others who've had problems will tell you you should fear for your life.

All I know is every time I've gone on a trip that wasn't to Europe there's always been at least one person telling me how dangerous X place was and how very brave I was. I've come back alive and happy each time. As have millions of visitors to South Africa.

tuckeg

While I know what response this will bring, I have to point out that South Africa is not like every other country in the world in regards to crime. Danny Jordaan, CEO of the 2010 World Cup recently discussed the crime issue and used the following 2006 statistics from Interpol for Murder rate/100,000 population:
Japan: 1.05
Great Britian: 1.65
Canada: 4
USA 5.61
South Africa: 40.5

Here are three recent articles discussing crime:


http://www.news24.com/News24/South_A...210747,00.html

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_A...3702%2C00.html

http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/...191648,00.html


In spite of this, I still recommend visiting SA to friends and family, but warn them to be cautious and to be very, very cautious in Jo'Burg. I have no doubt that you will have a fine vacation and be happy you went.

PS. Sorry if this is an edited copy of a previous post. I tried to post an early version and it looked like it was sent but doesn't seem to have been received.

hills27

Yes, South Africa has a high crime rate, particularly in the cities. But if you take the normal precautions and don't put yourself in stupid situations, then your chances of being a crime victim are substantially lowered. Furthermore, unlike other parts of the world, American tourists are not generally targeted for kidnappings.

I just went in August with my family and I didn't feel uncomfortable at any point. Our TA arranged for transportation to/from the airport/hotels. They were great, parking the car, walking us into the terminal, and guiding us to the proper line(s).

In Cape Town, we hired Selwyn to tour us around the Cape and the winelands and took advantage of the hotel's drivers to take us to/from dinner each night. Based on Selwyn's advice, we only used the ATMs in the V&A Waterfront and only during the day.

In Jo'burg, we hired a driver for the day. When we needed an ATM, he parked the car and escorted us into the bank.

Finally, we don't dress like tourists, and I carry my DSLR in a large, cheap purse that zipped up instead of a camera bag that screamed "expensive camera."

As long as you are alert to your surroundings and smart about where you go and how you get there, it's unlikely you'll experience any crime.

Celia

My husband and I visit South Africa about every 2 to 3 years. We rent cars, drive (all by ourselves) to wherever we want to go, and generally behave the way we do in Chicago or London or Paris.

SA has a very high crime rate, but very little crime is directed against tourists. I read news from SA regularly, and I think that in the last 20 years, I have heard of three incidences of life-threatening crimes against tourists, and one of those was against a tourist in Durban who refused to obey police advice to leave the area where a riot was taking place. Most life-threatening crime in SA is among criminals who are fighting over criminal stuff like drug-selling territory or control of certain kinds of businesses.

There's a high rate of burglary of homes. This doesn't affect tourists, obviously. There's a high rate of car high-jacking, but the cars most wanted by the car-jackers are luxury cars, Beamers and Mercedes.

You might get pick-pocketed, you might get mugged, but it's unlikely that you'll be held up at gunpoint.

Celia

I would love to correct my typo of hi-jacking!

p.s. Where in SA did those two friends of yours go, and what crimes were committed against them?

granny

We just got back from a trip to Namibia and South Africa. We had made arrangements with our B & B host to pick us up at Jo'burg airport. We would not have gotten into just any cab.

We rented a car at the Cape Town airport and drove for a week. We always kept the doors locked and the windows up per our travel agent's suggestion. We didn't have any problems in the winelands or our two days on the Garden route.

Looking back, we should have returned the rental car on our way back to Cape Town. It's not that it's so dangerous during the day, but we kept getting lost and there are lots of hills. We did take cabs at night and our B & B host there said it wasn't safe to walk at night. They have a hop-on, hop-off bus that I wish we had used. If you book both the red and blue routes, you can use the ticket for two days.

We were at the V & A waterfront on a Sunday, very crowded, but we felt safe.

A good travel agent should place you in a safe area and you can book tours and not have to drive.

laguna92688

SA is a beautiful country. I moved here in April from California and in terms of a place to visit there is nowhere like it. That said it is an extremely dangerous country. Before moving here I visited on a number of occassions and generally found that with some precautions it was ok for a visitor. To live here is another matter. I recently moved to a so-called "security complex" in a good suburb of Pretoria which I felt would be a safer place to live with my family than Jhb. Two nights after we moved in, somebody came in whilst we were asleep and took numerous electronics items from downstairs. My concern is that if they had come upstairs to where my two daughters and wife were asleep who know what happens. The incidents of rape is very high here because many of the new South Africans feel that raping a virgin is a cure for AIDS. the problem is that the government through its reverse racism and complete failure to stand up to crime is encouraging this kind of thought and action. And because the majority of the people here are like sheep, the ANC will always be in power and SA will continue to deteriorate from what it used to be-a first world country in Africa to a third world crime ridden hellhole. Not much of a future here unfortunately.

laguna92688

And the latest in the news is that an american exchange student was raped at the University of Natal in Durban today.

Poppins

Laguna, with America being such an enlightened and forward thinking country with no racism or crime, I am amazed that you would lower yourself to live in South Africa. Personally I feel safe here every day of my life. I have never (touch wood) been mugged, robbed or tampered with. South Africa is going places and the ANC is doing a fine job of taking our budding democracy to new heights.

There is crime in South Africa, yes,just as there are honest friendly people with a positive outlook on life.

Safety wise you shouldn’t walk alone at night, look too much like a tourist and just be sensible. Like you would when you travel anywhere.

Celia

Laguna, please accept my sympathy about the invasion of your home. That happened to me, quite a long time ago, and I know how much it shakes you. It took a couple of years before I was able to completely lose my feeling of insecurity.

Selwyn_Davidowitz

Poppins, Ditto bigtime to all that you have said.

Tuckeg, I think that time has come that you dont just quote statistics but rather analyse them too. For instance at a guess I would say that 40 of the 40.5 murders/100,000 that you quote do not take place in any area even remotely close to where you will find foreigners or tourists. Furthermore a HUGE % of these murders are gang related and are within gangs and do not involve the outside public. You get stats and other stats however just mouthing these stats means absolutely nothing when it comes to harsh practicalities.

Laguna if it so bad in SA why are you still here? By the way I have lived here for not par but for my whole life and I disagree with you totally about the statement "To live here is another matter"

Anita19, If you visit SA you will, just like 99% of all tourists who come to this country, enjoy a wonderful crime free experience. Yes you could land up in the 1% category of problem however please tell me in which country of the world this 1% does not exist in. Its a norm and SA is no different. So if you take the normal precautions visit us and you will have a vacation that you will never forget. If you dont believe me just read the comments of those who have visited SA on this board.

Hope that you visit us and that you have a wonderful time doing so.

Very proudly part of the wonderful nation of South Africa

tuckeg

Alright Selwyn, I promise never to muddle up any discussions about crime in South Africa by posting any statistics by anyone, including respected international organizations. It is clear facts have no place in the discussion and from now I will just post anecdotes like "I have visited South Africa and have never been robbed" or "Crime is everywhere" or "I didn't feel unsafe in South Africa but did in Los Angeles". Hope that meets with your approval. Perhaps someday, when South African crime rates compare favorably to the rest of the world, statistics will again be allowed. Please copy Danny Jordaan with your memo (I don't think he is a regular Fordor's reader) so he won't make any more public statements about South African crime statistics and its effect on tourism and the 2010 World Cup..

Selwyn_Davidowitz

Tuckeg,

I dont regard Danbny Jordaan as a person to whom one should listen to when it comes to crime or crime stats. Seeing that you are so keen to want to quote him or for that matter have me let him know my thoughts please go to

http://www.proudlysa.co.za/level2/media.asp? include=../docs/news/2007/august/20070822_007.html

where you can see what the man you are quoting is really saying.

Seems as if somebody has certainly got their stats in a twist! I say again one gets stats and stats and simply regurgitating numbers in a selective manner with no interpretation is the worst way to discuss any statistic. (or for that matter news report)

In a nutshell Anita19 Danny Jordaan is saying "Please come to SA and as a visitor you will be as safe as can be". I would strongly agree with this but I dont need Danny Jordaan or a batch of numbers to tell me these facts as I have lived in SA for my whole life and know that the above is correct anyway.

Very proudly part of the wonderful nation of South Africa

laguna92688

Poppins,
I am not in fact American but lived there for 8 years before marrying a South African and moving here. I have not said that I don't like SA. I do like it and in many respects prefer it to the US in terms of people and scenery. That said there are issues here which are huge and which will not go away. To claim that the ANC is "doing a fine job" is unbelievable when you have the highest crime rate in the world, the highest AIDS rate and thousands leaving the country every year for a new life overseas. Ie a skills shortage which will be long-term a catastrphe for SA. How you can claim you feel safe here and need to act "just like anywhere in the world" shows unbelievable ignorance.

annhig

hi, anita,

what you need to know is that as a tourist you will be safe. i can only say that we visited with our kids for 12 days in July and we felt as safe as houses, despite the attempts of many South africans to tell us otherwise! nor did we meet any other tourists who had had any problems at all.

we got in taxis, walked around cape town, hired a car, and even broke down and had to mend a flat tyre, all without incident.

it's a wonderful place and you should have a ball.

regards, ann

mcwomble

In my opinion, SA is safe for tourists. Yes - take precautions, but don't confuse headlines or statistics with actual danger to you on a 2 week holiday.

The advice from the UK government (the Foreign Office is not renowned for its devil-may-care attitude) is that millions of visitors safely go to South Africa every year. There is violence, but mostly restricted to non-tourist areas, and most request for help concern lost documents.
www.fco.gov.uk

tuckeg

Selwyn,

I can't get your link to work and don't have time to play around to see what's wrong with it so I have no idea what your talking about. As for statistics and interpreting them, let's look at you comments:

"I think that time has come that you dont just quote statistics but rather analyse them too. For instance at a guess I would say that 40 of the 40.5 murders/100,000 that you quote do not take place in any area even remotely close to where you will find foreigners or tourists."

If that is true, it should be easy to find data to support your "guess" (funny how your idea of analyzing data is to guess), where is it? What kind of areas are these? You take tourists into townships, so it can't be there. You have told Fodorites it is safe to travel anywhere in Cape Town (at night no less) so it can't be there. It can't be out in the bush because tourists go there. Where is this killing zone? My "guess" is that is not the case. My South African friend was murdered in front of a group of tourists at his tourist lodge.

"Furthermore a HUGE % of these murders are gang related and are within gangs and do not involve the outside public."

Don't you think the same is true for the other countries mentioned? Do you think all the crimes in Japan are directed at tourists? If the crimes against tourists are the same percentage of crime in each country, then the country with the highest crime rate (South Africa) will still have the most tourists related crimes.

If you have any statistics related to tourist related crime in South Africa, post them. If not, anyone who listens to your "it's just as safe as anywhere else in the world" mantra does so at their own risk.

I repeat what I said, I recommend South Africa as a tourist destination, but crime is a serious issue there and special precautions should be taken, especially in Jo'Burg. Unless the situtation is turned around soon, I fear in the not to distant future we will be reading posts describing some very unfortunate events involving tourists.

Tuckeg