Is Money The Issue?
Mar 30th, 2008, 03:58 AM
#41
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RE some Lions not being habituated. You all certainly do remember how feisty the current Selinda pride males were when they were first viewed by the game vehicles. Milky Eye was skittish and so was his buddy and they did sometimes charge vehicles also.
Ofcourse, these days they are co-operative.
Ofcourse, these days they are co-operative.
Mar 30th, 2008, 05:41 AM
#42
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<b>Ragsi,</b>
I see you are going to South Africa. That is the only country I've been where the rangers carry rifles in the vehicle. The rifles are secured in the area where the windshield wipers would rest. (No windshield or wipers of course.)
With or without a rifle (and as Skimmer states, it can be a false sense of security) your trip will be wonderful and safe. Just as there are car accidents on roads, you don't just stop driving.
Stats came up awhile back and they showed and about 15 tourists have been killed by animals while on safari in Africa over the last decade, and all deaths were while guests were on foot not in a vehicle. Since I am relying on memory, those numbers could be off a bit. Now the numbers are much higher for local people who fish in the rivers, tend cattle, and walk everywhere.
Unlike Jackssid2, you will not be habituating lions to a vehicle or trying to collar them. The detail Afrigalah adds to the Namibia lion charge is again reassuring because you'll have a ranger who will stop people from standing up and waving at the lion.
Please don't be concerned about being attacked. Instead, use your energies to check with your provider to be sure you have enough vehicles to accommodate your group so that you have an unobstructed view of the wonder around you.
I see you are going to South Africa. That is the only country I've been where the rangers carry rifles in the vehicle. The rifles are secured in the area where the windshield wipers would rest. (No windshield or wipers of course.)
With or without a rifle (and as Skimmer states, it can be a false sense of security) your trip will be wonderful and safe. Just as there are car accidents on roads, you don't just stop driving.
Stats came up awhile back and they showed and about 15 tourists have been killed by animals while on safari in Africa over the last decade, and all deaths were while guests were on foot not in a vehicle. Since I am relying on memory, those numbers could be off a bit. Now the numbers are much higher for local people who fish in the rivers, tend cattle, and walk everywhere.
Unlike Jackssid2, you will not be habituating lions to a vehicle or trying to collar them. The detail Afrigalah adds to the Namibia lion charge is again reassuring because you'll have a ranger who will stop people from standing up and waving at the lion.
Please don't be concerned about being attacked. Instead, use your energies to check with your provider to be sure you have enough vehicles to accommodate your group so that you have an unobstructed view of the wonder around you.
Mar 30th, 2008, 06:06 AM
#43
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I've told the tale before, when we, at dusk on return to camp for dinner, upon smelling this terrible odor, drove into a track to come upon a pride of lion with a downed small giraffe (could mainly see ribs sticking up in the air). Surrounding us when we could see more than the two young males still chomping in the dead meat... maybe 20 lions, a few large male, lots of females with even more young'uns. Took us a few to get used to the stench and our eyes to adjust, but the lions barely gave us a look and weren't moving anywhere - tummies too full. 4/humans, 20/cats, lots of fireflies above our heads! Wow! Sat about 15/min then left for dinner waiting us!
Certainly an adrenaline rush. Ranger and tracker had two rifles between them, and my partner knew how to use if the need arose, but didn't... they could care a hoot
Now, that's Afree-kah!
Certainly an adrenaline rush. Ranger and tracker had two rifles between them, and my partner knew how to use if the need arose, but didn't... they could care a hoot
Now, that's Afree-kah!
Mar 30th, 2008, 07:11 AM
#44
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This will be my first trip to that part of the world.
Before signing on, I was told there'd be between 15-17 people. The last time I checked, there were 40 on the list. Though my husband is not thrilled with such a large group, I decided to go ahead and deal with it. Our purpose is to visit S. Africa and see the animals and the culture. We're not there to impress anyone or taking the trip to put a "feather in our cap". I'll be wearing a simple gold wedding band and a Timex watch.
The more I've read and been advised here and on Trip Advisor, I'm wondering if we couldn't have planned the trip ourselves and done it the way others have posted. Seems very safe and hotel recommendations have been given. We'll see from our experiences how we feel.
BTW...We have been fortunate on trips we've taken, where we've flown in by ourselves, to make wonderful friends and keep in contact with one another often. We didn't plan on it, it just happens.
Before signing on, I was told there'd be between 15-17 people. The last time I checked, there were 40 on the list. Though my husband is not thrilled with such a large group, I decided to go ahead and deal with it. Our purpose is to visit S. Africa and see the animals and the culture. We're not there to impress anyone or taking the trip to put a "feather in our cap". I'll be wearing a simple gold wedding band and a Timex watch.
The more I've read and been advised here and on Trip Advisor, I'm wondering if we couldn't have planned the trip ourselves and done it the way others have posted. Seems very safe and hotel recommendations have been given. We'll see from our experiences how we feel.
BTW...We have been fortunate on trips we've taken, where we've flown in by ourselves, to make wonderful friends and keep in contact with one another often. We didn't plan on it, it just happens.
Mar 31st, 2008, 10:42 AM
#46
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A Cheetah??
Was the owner a girl?
Very strange for a cheetah to attack a human (well except for a lady or child or really small man).
They are pretty much considered harmless to man. What did the owner do to provoke this?
I hope the owner was shot rather then the cheetah?
Please let me know where I can read this. Would love to have a laugh. I love it when the wild gets a bit of payback! I used to love watching these reality shows where some idiot gets out a vehicle with a bear or bison and gets nailed. Just wish the animal did not have to pay at the end!
Was the owner a girl?
Very strange for a cheetah to attack a human (well except for a lady or child or really small man).
They are pretty much considered harmless to man. What did the owner do to provoke this?
I hope the owner was shot rather then the cheetah?
Please let me know where I can read this. Would love to have a laugh. I love it when the wild gets a bit of payback! I used to love watching these reality shows where some idiot gets out a vehicle with a bear or bison and gets nailed. Just wish the animal did not have to pay at the end!
Mar 31st, 2008, 12:12 PM
#47
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Heard the same this morning.
Woman had 2/cheetah on her educational premises. She believes it was the sound of child's large bouncing ball that might have caused the cats to react as they did. Apparently, she wasn't badly injured and didn't want the cats put down. That's all I know. I'm sure a Google search will find more details (or not).
Woman had 2/cheetah on her educational premises. She believes it was the sound of child's large bouncing ball that might have caused the cats to react as they did. Apparently, she wasn't badly injured and didn't want the cats put down. That's all I know. I'm sure a Google search will find more details (or not).
Mar 31st, 2008, 02:13 PM
#48
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When I read that story of the two cheetahs attacking, I thought of you, Ragsi. And right after all this reassurance of cheetahs don't hurt people. But captive cheetahs are a different story from those in the wild.
With the 40 people the big thing is how many in each vehicle. If you planned the trip yourself, you might go to a lodge and there are 38 others and they could all be traveling independently too. But the # in each vehicle is key.
There are lots of people who do an initial trip to Africa with a group, then after that decide to go again sometime on their own.
Have you posted your itinerary?
With the 40 people the big thing is how many in each vehicle. If you planned the trip yourself, you might go to a lodge and there are 38 others and they could all be traveling independently too. But the # in each vehicle is key.
There are lots of people who do an initial trip to Africa with a group, then after that decide to go again sometime on their own.
Have you posted your itinerary?
Mar 31st, 2008, 09:09 PM
#49
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Animals in captivity are very different from those in the wild. I am glad she did not want the cheetah put down.
There is a place in South Africa called Tshukudu. They have captive breeding of lion on a small reserve and often have elephant and tame leopard/lion that go with you on a walk. I visited there many years ago at a time when there was a leopard that came with on a walk. The owner’s wife took the walk (in a huge dress). I did find it very strange at the time as she was a fairly small lady and the fact is that animals in general will have specific targets. We were warned that the leopard was fairly rough and would definitely ‘attack play’ if it got the opportunity. I remember thinking to myself at the time that the wife was probably a prime target. This turned out to be the case. This leopard kept checking for openings in the group (all the ladies were in the centre with the men on the fringes except for the wife of the owner). If it could not get at a lady in the group it would ‘attack’ the wife and we kept having to pull it off her. I often wonder why places employ petite ladies to do these kinds of jobs. To be honest you need a large lady or man otherwise these attacks happen far more regularly.
This has nothing to do with ladies, just size (do not want to get peoples backs up). Often the small petite lady guides carrying rifles are the best to go with on walks and are far better at shooting and handling situations then the macho kind of guys that do not feel comfortable going with them are.
There is a place in South Africa called Tshukudu. They have captive breeding of lion on a small reserve and often have elephant and tame leopard/lion that go with you on a walk. I visited there many years ago at a time when there was a leopard that came with on a walk. The owner’s wife took the walk (in a huge dress). I did find it very strange at the time as she was a fairly small lady and the fact is that animals in general will have specific targets. We were warned that the leopard was fairly rough and would definitely ‘attack play’ if it got the opportunity. I remember thinking to myself at the time that the wife was probably a prime target. This turned out to be the case. This leopard kept checking for openings in the group (all the ladies were in the centre with the men on the fringes except for the wife of the owner). If it could not get at a lady in the group it would ‘attack’ the wife and we kept having to pull it off her. I often wonder why places employ petite ladies to do these kinds of jobs. To be honest you need a large lady or man otherwise these attacks happen far more regularly.
This has nothing to do with ladies, just size (do not want to get peoples backs up). Often the small petite lady guides carrying rifles are the best to go with on walks and are far better at shooting and handling situations then the macho kind of guys that do not feel comfortable going with them are.
Mar 31st, 2008, 09:27 PM
#50
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We, Carolyn, my sister Pat and I were at Tshukudu in Sep 2007. We did their morning bush walk with lion. The lion was a female about 14 months of age named Chobe. The ranger told us to listen carefully to the handler and if he said "face the lion" to be sure you were looking at Chobe. After maybe 20 mins while doing our bush walk (boooooring) Chobe came up behind my sister. I was back about 20 yards near the handler. The handler said "lady, face the lion". My sister did not hear him and Chobe made a push against her back and knocked her down to her knees. Chobe then put a paw on her but sis got up and turned towards Chobe. Chobe turned away. Sister was unhurt. I have it all on video, we still enjoy seeing the lion attacking my sister and play it in slow motion. Here is a photo of us with Chobe - before she attacked my sister.
http://tinyurl.com/32wqo8
regards - tom
http://tinyurl.com/32wqo8
regards - tom
Mar 31st, 2008, 10:35 PM
#51
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To those of you who think a lion cannot recognise you in a vehicle do not be fooled. Of course they can. The only difference is that by being in a seated position you do not present the threat of "man the hunter" This is why Rangers tell you not to stand up. So please listen to them, they do not say it out of spite or to inconvenience you.
Some animals move out of hunting and poaching areas and take up residence within a game viewing area. This is why they are initially skittish and occasionally aggressive. Because they move in as adults they are far more cautious and take much longer to relax unlike cubs who are born into a pride of relaxed lions and take about a week to get used to vehicles and never give them a second thought afterwards (unless provoked of course)
People get hurt when they are under the misapprehension that the animals you see on safari are "tame" They certainly are not, they are merely used to the vehicle being part of their day and are "kind" enough to tolerate the passengers being in their presence.
So obey the rules and never pressure, provoke (sudden movements) or degrade "here kitty kitty kitty" the animals. Show them the respect they deserve and you will have a wonderful experience.
As for incidents in captivity, the answer is simple. Why would you expect animals to behave normally in an unnatural enviroment? There are far more incidents/accidents with animals in captivity than there are with those you encounter on a game drive.
As previously mentioned the unfortunate thing is that the animal usually gets destroyed afterwards. How sad and ridiculous. They never chose to be put in captivity and it goes against all their natural instincts. A bouncing ball would have the same effect as rolling a ball of string in front of a domestic house cat!
And contrary to popular belief predators do not instantaneously become "man eaters" after one "attack" on a human.
Be wise!
Some animals move out of hunting and poaching areas and take up residence within a game viewing area. This is why they are initially skittish and occasionally aggressive. Because they move in as adults they are far more cautious and take much longer to relax unlike cubs who are born into a pride of relaxed lions and take about a week to get used to vehicles and never give them a second thought afterwards (unless provoked of course)
People get hurt when they are under the misapprehension that the animals you see on safari are "tame" They certainly are not, they are merely used to the vehicle being part of their day and are "kind" enough to tolerate the passengers being in their presence.
So obey the rules and never pressure, provoke (sudden movements) or degrade "here kitty kitty kitty" the animals. Show them the respect they deserve and you will have a wonderful experience.
As for incidents in captivity, the answer is simple. Why would you expect animals to behave normally in an unnatural enviroment? There are far more incidents/accidents with animals in captivity than there are with those you encounter on a game drive.
As previously mentioned the unfortunate thing is that the animal usually gets destroyed afterwards. How sad and ridiculous. They never chose to be put in captivity and it goes against all their natural instincts. A bouncing ball would have the same effect as rolling a ball of string in front of a domestic house cat!
And contrary to popular belief predators do not instantaneously become "man eaters" after one "attack" on a human.
Be wise!
Apr 1st, 2008, 01:49 AM
#52
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So true about the man eaters!
I know of at least one pride that is in a very busy area right now that has been found feeding on an illegal immigrant. Will not say where but the pride was found by rangers and no one was ever told because the pride would be shot but at the time the rangers decided to keep it quiet. I am sure many of you on Fodors have even seen this pride and they are just fine today (although I would not really like to walk around them at night – woooooohoooooohaaaaaaa).
I have never seen so much degrading of animals anywhere as I have in East Africa. Almost every single driver does it every single day.
I know of at least one pride that is in a very busy area right now that has been found feeding on an illegal immigrant. Will not say where but the pride was found by rangers and no one was ever told because the pride would be shot but at the time the rangers decided to keep it quiet. I am sure many of you on Fodors have even seen this pride and they are just fine today (although I would not really like to walk around them at night – woooooohoooooohaaaaaaa).
I have never seen so much degrading of animals anywhere as I have in East Africa. Almost every single driver does it every single day.
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lwinokur
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