We're travelling to Cape Town. We would like to do a day safari and perhaps see some white sharks (without the diving) as well as some of the sights of the southern cape. Can anyone recommend nice accommodations, a nice day safari, and possibly info on white shark tourism? Never been to Africa before. Any other considerations when in Cape Town?

OldTrout

When it comes to doing a shark dive type experience I would very strongly advise that you to do this adventure with Chris Fallows and his crew in Simonstown. This is in my opinion the best shark cage diving outfit in Cape Town. Chris is the man who shoots all the National Geographic pictures of flying sharks as well as does all the shark diving work for Discovery Channel. As I have already said in my opinion he simply is the best. I just happened to be passing Chris’s shop in Simonstown last week when I saw a picture of him and one of his latest visitors who was none other than a man by name of Tiger Woods.
http://www.apexpredators.com/

I would suggest that you do the journey with Chris in the morning and then do the very exciting Baboon Matters journey (just down the road from Simonstown) in the afternoon. This is a fantastic journey which I highly recommend. The website of Baboon Matters says it all so please go to
http://www.baboonmatters.org.za/


When it comes to choice of a Cape Town safari I think it is important for you to note the following about animal viewing in Cape Town and safaris in the Western Cape. 250 years ago there were many animals roaming all of the Western Cape region. Not only were these animals to be found in large quantities they also made up many, many species. Then man arrived on the scene and he decided to do make money out of the territory by planting vines so as to grow grapes and make wine. In doing so he destroyed most of the renosterveld (rhino bush) so as to plant vineyards in its place. By doing this he took the staple food that the animals ate and lived on away from them and they migrated to the northern parts of South Africa where they increased the already strong animal population. In the process the Western Cape lost its animal kingdom because of mans greed. Now we move on to today's times and suddenly to some farmers and developers tourism is becoming more viable than the wine industry in the Western Cape. This has resulted in quite a number of so called entrepreneurs wanting to jump onto the bandwagon and bring the animals back. Needles to say with this goes the concept of safaris for tourists. The problem is that you cant simply press a button and presto you have a safari farm. One needs to do intensive eco-studies as to see whether the region can cope with the various animals and much of the food that the animals have to graze on has to be pre-grown for this purpose. All in all it can, and should take the best part of ten years PLUS to establish a really true and good game farm. What is happening in the Western Cape is that most of the players in the region are trying to take shortcuts to riches and this results in nothing other than a glorified zoo ride when it comes to a safari. There are a couple of gamefarms in the form of Aquila (http://www.aquilasafari.com/) as well as its nearby neighbour viz. Inverdoorn (http://www.inverdoorn.com/ ) who fall into a category that is probably one or two steps ahead of most of the new game farms in Cape Town and if you only had one day available I would recommend you visiting any of these 2 establishments although please bear in mind that in the northern parts of South Africa or in the Eastern Cape you will most certainly obtain a much better safari experience.

In terms of other experiences you could enjoy in Cape Town I would recommend that you look into doing the following in either self drive or with a guide format:

1. The spectacular Cape Peninsula tour

2. A tour or self drive to the wonderful Cape winelands

3. Depending on when you are travelling a journey to Hermanus to see the whales

4. Take a ride on the hop on hop off bus so as to see the city (red route) or the Kirstenbosch to Hout Bay area (Blue Route). Fantastic value for money and wonderful journey to do.
http://www.citysightseeing.co.za/blue-route.htm

When it comes to accommodation I <b>always</b> recommend that my visitors stay in guesthouses and not hotels. I do this because owners of South African guesthouses are generally marvelous hosts. The ones that I use as a tour guide definitely are as such. Bear in mind that guesthouses represent excellent accommodation that is much more personalized at <b>much better</b> rates than hotels. Guesthouses are marvelous venues to stay in and their rate also includes a fantastic breakfast. At most guesthouses you enjoy this meal in the wonderful, friendly breakfast room. When you are in a guesthouse you have total freedom of movement.. It is a wonderful free and easy style of holidaying. What also is most important is that because of the size of the guesthouse you will NOT be in amongst the hordes of tourists as you might only have a couple of other guests at the guesthouse while you are there. Thus you get great accommodation, personalised attention as well as wonderful value in a very safe place to stay when you reside in guesthouses and that is why I recommend them so highly.

In terms of good guesthouses at good prices may I suggest that you look at the following sites:

<u><b>Davids</u></b>

http://www.davids.co.za/

Wonderful venue with fantastic hosts. Close to city as well as the Green Point strip where there are many restaurants. Well appointed and has to be amongst the best value in Cape Town. Highly recommended.

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<u><b>Avanti</u></b>

www.avanti.co.za

Tried and tested ranking amongst the best value for money in Cape Town. Also 50 yards from the seafront. HIGHLY recommended.

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<u><b>Cape Standard</u></b>

http://www.capestandard.co.za/home.htm

Well located. Lovely guesthouse with super friendly host. Great value for money and certainly not expensive. Rooms are done up in a rustic manner with all conveniences available. Great breakfast area.

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<u><b>Cape Codogan</u></b>

http://www.capecadogan.com/

Fabulous venue with wonderfully spacious and beautifully decorated rooms. Close to city and well located relative to some fabulous restaurants that are all within walking distance. Slightly more expensive than the average guesthouse but certainly worth the money.

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<u><b>An African Villa</u></b>

http://capetowncity.co.za/villa/

Fantastic place to stay that is relatively close to city centre. Guesthouse is superbly run, offers great value for money, is beautifully decorated. Close to many restaurants by foot. Internet facilities available. Simply a wonderful place to stay.

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<u><b>Camps Bay Terrace</u></b>

http://www.campsbayterrace.com/

The website to this venue says it all. This is what I believe is the finest place to stay in Camps Bay. The establishment is meticulously run. I would suggest that one should stay in the penthouse if you are 4 people and in the suite if you are two people. The views at this guesthouse are amazing to say the least. One is a walk away from the beach and close to many of the local restaurants in Camps Bay. Please note that this is a self catering venue but one is very close to many coffee shops as well as a supermarket where you can buy anything you need for eating purposes that can be made in the wonderful kitchens in the penthouse or the suite. <b>Very, very highly recommended</b>
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<u><b>De Waterkant Cottages - De Waterkant</u></b>

http://www.dewaterkantcottages.com/a...n/cottages.asp

These are fantastic self catering cottages at excellent rates. Very quaint, fabulously furnished with huge, huge, huge amounts of space. The cottages are also extremely well maintained. The cottages are right in the middle of where it is all happening near the city centre (10 minute walk away) as well the Waterfront. (20 minute walk away). The cottages are also close to many great little coffee houses, a wonderful deli called Andiamo as well as interesting restaurants. Bearing in mind that the cottages are hired out on a self catering basis these eateries will be of importance to you especially for breakfast.


Ok Old Trout that should get you started re planning your Cape Town journey.
I hope that all of the above helps you in making your visit to our great city a wonderful one.

Very proudly part of the wonderful nation of South Africa

Wow..thanks so much for the info...I definitely have lots to read through to get me started. Thanks for the efforts you put into responding to my post!

Once again, excellent (and very detailed) advice posted by Selwyn. I LOVED Baboon matters, and Chris was a great guide.

I would also endorse the idea of a guest house. Although not on Selwyn's list, I had a wonderful stay at Kensington Place.

That answer is all you need. My links will provide some tourist testimony to the above. I also went with the Fallows to the sharks, actually with a partner in the operation, Rob Lawrence. Both boats go out together. I stayed on the boat for my shark viewing.

Here is a link to my report. The first part is on Cape Town and Simons Town, which is 20 minutes away, and where the recommended shark trip leaves from. It also is where the baboon walks talk place.

http://www.fodors.com/community/afri...-n-luangwa.cfm


Here is a link to the specifics of the shark trip.
http://www.fodors.com/community/afri...o-charters.cfm


I talked to a few people who went to Aquila and they liked it.

Have a great time.

There are only two Fair Trade in Tourism (www.fairtourismsa.org.za) certified shark tour operators:

www.sharkwatchsa.com

www.whitesharkprojects.co.za

To my knowledge, no other operator has independently certified conservation or Fair Trade credentials of an international standard.

HTH

Kurt

Kurt

Are you trying to say that if an operator does not have FTIT certification he/she is not a good shark tour operator? If not what are you trying to communicate?

The reason why I ask this is because in my opinion the FTIT certificate is not worth the paper it is written on. Its just another qualification that looks posh and meaningful in theory yet in practice is meaningless. An example of this is that I bet that there are probably only one or two Fodorites who had heard of FTIT before it was mentioned in this thread.

To substantiate what I am saying I believe that Chris Fallows is an incredible shark tour operator. I know of an American marine biologist, who has a list of qualifications the length of my arm, who is employed to oversee the building of yachts for Americans in South Afica. He uses Chris Fallows's services whenever he comes to Cape Town. He has done so on 6 occcasions in the past 5 years and we are not talking about half day events because whenever he and Chris went out to sea it was for periods of 3-4 days at a time doing pelagic fish diving as well as shark diving experiences. Most of this marine biologists reports have been used in various thesises as well as for other professional reasons. The marine biologist swears by Chris Fallows and has told me that he is arguably the best in the world in his field. It most certainly seems as if National Geographic and the Discovery Channel agree with him.

I have also had a similar report from another marine scientist who only spent a day with Chris.

So what counts? Reports from people and organisations of this cailbre or a certificate from an association that probably 99% of shark cage diving enthusiats have never even heard of. Why I ask should a highly qualified man like Chris Fallows even bother to pay the monies to have an assessor come aboard and evaluate his work to become FTIT recognised?

In a nutshell I dont see the need at all to have a FTIT certificate and it should have absolutely no bearing on a persons choice when selecting a shark tour operator to work with.

Just my twopence worth.

Very proudly part of the wonderful nation of South Africa

If you're looking for other activities in Cape Town, check out this Cape Town Adventure Guide, written by a local travel writer:

http://www.ruba.com/guide/simonB/Cap...dventure_Guide

Enjoy your trip!

What is the best time of year for shark viewing?

moldyhotelsaregross,

Sharkviewing best time = Now (end June) through to September

Hope this helps

Very proudly part of the nation of South Africa

Hi Selwyn

Your personal credibility is what makes your particular recommendation of a particular operator worthwhile in this instance, but who is to know otherwise which operators are ethical and which are not? I don't understand what experience you've had re: FTTSA that makes you (apparently) hostile to them, but independent accreditation to documented standards is very valuable. I also believe that the FTTSA standards are high, the process is transparent, and the organisation has well-documented domestic and international credibility. I'm very interested to learn more that would substantiate your pointed dismissal of them.

I would also argue that the qualities an academic requires to do rigorous primary research are not equal to what makes for a positive tourism experience, nor do they necessarily imply responsible business practices. I know of many instances of appalling employment, environmental and operational practices at the field sites and research camps of academics in southern Africa that would make your hair curl, many of which are American funded and operated.

I would also argue that Apex being based near Cape Town has such a convenience factor that a comparison to other operators based in/near Gansabaai is difficult to make. How many other operators has your American friend and the marine scientist tried so they can make an informed judgement?

Finally, using commercial television productions to justify the quality of a tourism operation is also not an appropriate standard. I have friends who take camera crews from NatGeo, BBC, Discovery and independent production companies all over sub-Saharan Africa, but would never suggest they be guides or tour operators for tourists looking for similar experiences. In fact, they are often asked to do irresponsible and unethical things in order to "get the shot." As with academics, what the TV producers want from their productions does not lend itself to ethical business or environmental practices.

I'm not disputing that other operators couldn't be of an exceptional quality, but am saying that FTTSA is a meaningful, independent indicator to guide one's decision, particularly that there are documented UN-ethical operators in the shark diving category.

I also don't believe the argument you've presented here to support Chris Fallows is one that is persuasive, for the reasons I've outlined above. It's your personal credibility and experience in the industry that carry more weight for me, so I'm happy to give you the benefit of the doubt on those grounds.

hi OldTrout
about 1 day safari
It's certainly not enoough to really experience a safari
since you testify that you haven't visited Africa yet, it is maybe natural to think that a day on safari is sufficient.
However, once you've been to Africa you fell totally different.
i suggest, if time and other resources are available, to reconsider the length of the "safari" part

fell should be feel

Kurt,

After seeing your excellent response to my mail I met Chris Fallows per chance last week and asked him to write to me giving me his thoughts about the FTIT recognition. I think it is worthy of me publishing what he had to say so here goes:
(Btw I mentioned to Chris that you were a highly thought of party in the Cape Town tourism industry and he interpreted it as you being my colleague.)

___________

Hi Selwyn.

Thank you so much for taking the time to support us on this issue. As I mentioned to you Monique and I don't even know what FTTSA is? I would be very very happy to be part of an independant review of our industry where ALL THE OPERATORS ARE REVIEWED UNANNOUNCED. Ironically reading who is mentioned as being representative in our industry is a company that unfortunately has the worst safety record in our industry. To be quite honest though I am not to be worried about being accredited with this one. As a matter of fact accreditation has long since become irrelevant to us. Having being involved in the industry since it's inception in 1991 at Dyer island and since 1996 at Seal Island in False Bay I have seen a lot change and I am also constantly remined on a daily basis how badly the sharks are treated by some when I see severly banged up animals swimming around our vessel. We go to sea because we love the sharks and other marine wildlife. We have the distinction of having nearly 50% of all our guests each year being return guests and as you have pointed out hosted over 40 international film crews which include BBC's planet earth, voted the best nature series ever shown on television. Your colleague is quite right that film crews will try to push a operator into doing something that will compromise the wildlife, however at the end of the day it is ultimately the operator who can choose if he/she wants to do this or not. In this regard our track record speak for itself.
Also on the same tack as the above mentioned is the fact that it is very easy to put on a good show when you have someone aboard from a grading company however it is what you do when you think nobody is looking that is important. Quite simply we run our business in a way that we believe is ethical and
will continue to do so without forking out money to all these different organisations irrespective of whether we miss out on a few badges along the way. We also hope that as with the last 4 years we will continue to be fully booked with return guests throughout our season at Seal Island.

Once again Selwyn we appreciate you letting us know about your colleagues concerns and it is also fitting to see that he rightly holds you in such high esteem. As in my industry there are many tour guides who have all the badges but there are only those few, like you, who go the extra mile for their guests/wildlife rather than relying on easily sourced credentials.

Best wishes and hold on during the storm!
Chris & Monique

_______________

Hope this adds some spice to the discussion.

Very proudly part of the wonderful nation of South Africa

Thanks, Selwyn, for getting Chris Fallows to contribute here. Great to have direct words from him in the discussion.

To me, one of the things that his comments indicate is that we still have a long way to go before our SA tourism industry private sector has adopted an enlightened self-interest in improving the overall quality of experiences on offer. No company operates in isolation (one bad operator make all appear a bit worse for it), and particularly in South Africa, given our history, to pursue one's own company and personal profits without concern for the benefits one can bring to others is to re-inforce an inequitable status quo. Sadly, it seems that the demonstrable compliance with sustainable and ethical business practices are likely to be forced down the industry's throat, with all of the nastiness and unintended consequences that are sure to follow.

Chris's argument that "we run our business in a way that we believe is ethical" is a slippery standard to apply. While I take him at his word, what's to say that what one operator believes is ethical is shared by all? Without an independent standard, it becomes a mud-slinging match that stains the slinger and the slingee without resolving anything. Chris's comments about the poor safety practices of a competitor can come across as sour grapes rather than a legitimate complaint (i.e., 'look at this unsafe operator getting attention and a certificate while I am loved by movie stars and helped make the greatest nature series ever shown on television and don't have one'). I'm sure Chris didn't mean it that way, but without standards, it's hard to get beyond the perception of two competitors undermining one another and get to real improvement of the overall industry category.

What's needed are credible, rigorous, transparent, uniformly applied standards. They don't have to be FTTSA's by any means. However, at present, FTTSA provide the best independent certification of such standards, and my feeling is that we should work with the best that's available to us.

All of this will probably be moot in the next year or two, given the Tourism Charter already in place and the pending introduction of National Minimum Standards for Responsible Tourism. As I mentioned, I think these things will be imposed by government (the 'stick' approach) as the 'carrot' approach of incentives and awards is making very little difference in changing the behaviour or the perceptions of the industry.

I spent a week with the Fallows' operation. They always showed respect for the sharks. Sharks were not lured toward the diving cage by pulling bait into the cage, as some other operators do. After two breaches in response to the seal buoy, that was enough so as not to require sharks use their energy reserves for no caloric reward. If the sharks wanted to come to us, great, but some days they were scarce. The water was not chummed to attract them. We did not get on top of the sharks that had made a successful predation and were feeding.

That's the kind of trip I wanted--one that allowed me to see what the sharks do naturally, not one that substantially altered their behavior.

Karl,

I like and most certainly value your approach to this all but I find it to be much to idealistic and a bit pie in the skyish. The reason as to why I say this is because the most important issue left out of your reasoning is the free enterprise system meaning legitimate competition. Whilst the concept of competition can lead to bad practices it is also the driving force that make operators improve their operations and eventually results in the public coming out with a better product.

Unfortunately it is my opinion that the tourism charter wont be worth the paper it is written on. At the moment every Tom, Dick and Harry who owns a car is out there tour-guiding illegally and absolutely nothing is being done about it purely because government does not have the will or the teeth to do so. This problem has been around ever since I entered into the tourism industry close onto 11 years ago. This is not going to change tomorrow morning and thus in my opinion as I have already said I believe that the tourism charter, which I believe will fall into the same big hole, wont be worth the paper it is written on after all the first question is "who is going to ACTUALLY AND REALLY police it?"

More important to me are your lines:

_________

What's needed are credible, rigorous, transparent, uniformly applied standards. They don't have to be FTTSA's by any means. However, at present, FTTSA provide the best independent certification of such standards, and my feeling is that we should work with the best that's available to us
___________

I ask by whose standards are you making these judgments. What suddenly makes the FTTSA, which I believe very few had heard of before you brought them up credible? How do we know that are the best available and by what standards are they being judged to be as such. Furthermore how are we going to adjudicate all these other accrediatation bodies. Have you sen hopw many universities are handing out so collaed credible MBA's these days. If you thought they were all credible, well enough said....I just don’t buy this whole concept of “accreditation badges” and as far as I am concerned the only credibility that an organisation can obtain comes from hands on experiences reported by others on forums such as Fodors etc. To put this simply there is nothing like word of mouth experience reporting. In this manner Atravellyn’s incredibly sensible and responsible report in this thread is of so much more value to the traveller than an FTTSA or for that matter any accreditation.

To the above let me add that this should not stop anybody from listening to what the FTTSA says however one should then be able to say "oh well thats just another FTTSA report" or "wow that is a great report after all it comes from the FTTSA." In simple words let not the accreditors annoint themselves as finite, rather let the public annoint them in this manner. If the public keeps seeing them as being good in judgement then their own credibility will come through. Hate to say this but in this case FTTSA still has a very, very, very long way to go in their career. I was at a private meeting of a group of tourguides the other night where I believe that this is a group made up of the the top 25 tour guides in Cape Town. This group has over 300 total years of experience in the tourguide industry. I asked 11 of them if they knew of the FTTSA and not one had ever heard of them. When I asked Chris Fallows about them his answer to me was "who"? Makes one think does it not?

In conclusion I believe that we should let competition and not accreditation drive tourism because in the end the bad guys will be found out and the good guys will prevail.

Just my twopence worth.

Very proudly part of the wonderful nation of South Africa

Balance, Selwyn, balance my friend. You more than most should know that free enterprise alone will never change the status quo in our radically unequal, 97% white-owned tourism industry in South Africa. We also have the example of the global financial industry to remind us what happens when enterprise gets too "free" and begins to act with impunity.

Accreditation is not about limiting free enterprise in any case, it is about reducing risk for the customer by giving them an assurance that certain minimum standards and practices have been met. It's one more piece of information to be used in making a decision. Being included in Portfolio Collection is one form. SATSA membership is another. TGCSA star rating is yet another. For travellers interested in green travel, socially responsible tourism and sustainable business practices when they travel, FTTSA is the best available standard - there's an entire universe of responsible travel forums, tour operators and information sources that I'd venture most Fodor's readers don't tap into and aren't very aware of. The demand for green and ethical travel is significant and growing. I'm not surprised that your club of "top 25" tour guides who are thriving in the status quo aren't spending their time worrying about changes that today represent just a few percent of the overall industry.

As it turns out, however, the decision around standards and accreditation for 'Fair Trade' and sustainable business management practices has already been made for South Africa, viz. my mention of the National Minimum Standards on Responsible Tourism (to be administered via the TGCSA). FTTSA, Heritage and the others may become obsolete, we'll see.

There's a much longer discussion here involving industry dirty laundry for which Fodor's isn't the best forum, and this hijacked thread has already been much abused (apologies to OldTrout). I'll leave the last word to you, if you want it.

Kurt,

I agree we have hijacked Old Trout's thread unfairly and that this is not the place to discuss the accreditation issue. I reckon it is going to become part of an interesting day on the Cape Town GTG day

Thanks for your input which I, as always, believe is very valuable to this forum.

Very proudly part of the wonderful nation of South Africa