I am repeating my message regarding rascism in Southern Africa and specifically a message posted by Sandi on the subject.-
Author: tatamkhulu
Date: 09/13/2006, 08:05 pm
This message is for Sandi who professes to be so knowledgeable about all matters African. Well Sandi you are in the the same league as the racists you abhor. Ignorence is the root of rasciscm and you have fallen into its trap - you are the "heathen" to use the words you condemn innocents to. The person who used the word Suzie which you in your ignorence declare to be a racist term as "an oft referred name for a maid" was actually the word Sisi and not Suzie and he/she was using a very respectful isiXhosa noun for a female of about the same age as himself/herself which translated is the equivelant of sister. It is only disrespectful if the word is used when addressing someone older than yourself.
Now Sandi you are a highly respected contributor to Fodors but if you in ignorence embaress my people again by your lack of knowledge I will be waiting to correct you. By the way why do you describe a young lady as a "gal" OK you are American and we forgive you.
Hamba Kakuhle
Tatamkhulu

Tatamkhulu

Welcome to this board, I'm sure you'll have much to share with us.

As for Sandi, she perhaps misunderstood one comment by her dinner companion, but did state without giving examples a general sense of unease with her companions comments that indicates that she highlighted what she thought was the worst piece of behaviour so as to limit the length of her post.

So while your interpretation makes perfect sense, it may not when the whole evening is taken into account.

Oh and unless I'm really missing something gal is not a pejorative or rascist term in the USA. Though I'm sure I'll be in trouble with some ladies for that last sentence, but what the heck.

tatamkhulu... intersting point but I'm sure it would be better made if you kept the venom down a bit - please.

Even if Sandi was incorrect, let him who is without sin throw the first stone and all that....all right?

tata-since you weren't with sandi at that dinner, how do you know what was said? and if it was "sisi" ,a "respectable" term, why did the waitress say "some people will never change"? obviously it wasn't "respectable" to her either.

Internet forums can be a source of amazing and fantastically useful information -- information that just a few years ago had never been available to most travelers.

And Internet forums can also be a source of comments of uncertain origin.

Some individual posters have established a history of comments and the rest of us, as readers, can evaluate, based on our own criteria and biases, how much credibility we would give to the comments of such posters.

Other posters have a very limited, or even non-existent, history of comments. I find it much more difficult to evaluate such posters, especially when their initial (only) posts are complaints about some other poster or some travel-related business.

Is such a post from from a new contributor what it purports to be, or does the "new" poster have an agenda? It's often very difficult for me to evaluate this, and I always wish that the complaining poster had had a better record of having previously made positive contributions.

One more thing, "tatamkhulu": Please do not make the same post in two locations. Am I, and anyone else who might respond to you, supposed to post the same answer in both locations? If I do not, and someone sees your post only in the thread where I did not post, the picture is incomplete. But if I do follow your example and double-post, that would, presumably, make the management of this board quite upset. And justifiably so.

Tata,
Please, tell us how you really feel. Rather than slurring Sandi on an open forum, why don't you just ask a bit more diplomatically if perhaps she misunderstood the original comment.


Somehow, I do get the feeling that Sandi has perfect hearing and as a world traveler knows a racial slur when she hears one.

For someone who is offended by inequities you don't seem to hold back on your preconceived notions - or is it just trading insults for insults - no one wins that game.
Peace;
Sherry

Mellow Yellow lets smoke the Great African Peace pipe and smile......

Thanks everyone for your comments, but this "gal" can speak for herself.

tatamkhulu - thanks for explaining the reference Sisi vs Suzie, but believe me, my hearing was fine then, and isn't going anywhere anytime soon - what I heard was very clear; besides the tone of her voice. Not soft, but loud enough for the waitress to hear in a crowded room, some 15-ft. away, who was waiting on other guests.

This was the incident that happened between us and these two individuals, not all South Africans, the majority of whom I'm certain do not share such feelings. I guess we should have heeded the sister's pre-trip, comment about the brother "he's a bit strange" and not have contacted then... then no situation.

As to "gal" - a neutral term for female regardless their age. The waitress was too old to be considered a girl (youngsters to tweens), which if I had used that reference - "girl" -would be derogatory.

I'm quite familiar with the terms "sister" and "brother." I have many sisters and brothers in my own circle, probably for more years then you are old. So many, in fact, they are "family" over some thirty years. Through friendships, business, marriages, births, and deaths, regardless of race, religion or tribal affiliation. And never a derogatory word has passed anyone's lips. We don't think it or say it. It's simply anathema to us.

Needless to say, when I see injustice for any reason, especially so for color or skin or belief, I speak up and indicate my displeasure.

This incident was our single experience and doesn't reflect on an entire country. Everyone else we met during our visit - black, colored or white - were wonderful, warm and welcoming. I would have preferred to have forgotten this episode if not for kerikeri's thread.

People who know me would by astounded in reading your post, wondering who the racist might be; for certain not me.

End!