Are the 2008 prices out yet??

sandi, I could've sworn you mentioned that they came out awhile back.

But, in all my correspondences with my TO, she keeps adding at the end: "Note: Quotation above is based on current rates and are subject to change in 2008. We will notify you if there is any price difference."

I'm getting a little worried as I'm noticing some fishy price changes as I make slight changes to my itinerary. And now I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop when she tells me that the price is going up even more.

Let me explain a bit:

This was the 1st itinerary/price quoted:

1 night - JRO - Kia
2 nights - Tarangire - Kikoti
2 nights - Ngoro - Serena
2 nights - Rwan - 1 trek/1nt Serena/1nt Virunga
1 night - NBO - Intercontinental
3 nights - Samburu - Larsen's
4 nights - Mara - Sarova
All flights
Shared Drives Samburu/Mara
Private Drives Tanzania

This was quoted as $7035pp


Here's the latest itinerary/price quoted:

1 night - JRO - Kia
2 nights - Tarangire - Kikoti
2 nights - Ngoro - Serena
3 nights - Rwan - 2 treks/2nts Gorilla's Nest/1nt Chez Lando
1 night - NBO - Panafric
2 nights - Samburu - Serena
4 nights - Mara - Sarova
All flights
Shared Drives Samburu
Private Drives Tanzania and Mara

This total comes to $8315pp

This 2nd itinerary is coming out to be $1280 more per person.

So, this is where I get confused.
I realize that in the second itinerary we added a 2nd gorilla trek, but those permits are $500.
So, it seems, even at most the 2nd itinerary would only be $500 more per person. And also we have lodgings in the 2nd itinerary that are cheaper than in the 1st itinerary. So, I don't understand how this price was figured.
BTW, the private drive in the Mara costs $240 total and has already been factored into this equation.

How can it be $780 more per person if we're staying in cheaper lodgings and basically everything else stays the same?

I have sent her an e-mail asking her to clarify.


What do you all think?

You mentioned that Roy's price for the Rwanda portion on itinerary 1 was $2286pp. Have you asked them for the price of the Rwanda portion only on itinerary 2? This might make it easier to analyze.

Yes, the 2 trek Rwanda portion was quoted as $2920pp including flights.

I've spent all morning writing the different segments out on paper.
It is a bit confusing, but I'm pretty sure my figures are correct.

What makes the whole thing more difficult is that they never price out things in segments.
For example, they don't say,
2 nights at Tarangire costs X,
4 nights at Mara costs X, etc, etc, then add up the total.

They just give you a price for the whole package.
So, if you change up some things, it's hard to know where the extra charge is coming from.

Is it just me, or doesn't this make it hard to know if you're being given a fair quote??

Guess I'll wait to hear back from Roy's...but I'm not very optimistic that she'll say, "Oh, you're right, that should be cheaper".

Depending on what she says, I may re-send my itinerary to a couple of companies now that I've got my itinerary pretty much exactly how I want it.

Will wait and see for now.

Also, Patty, I did inquire about having all those nights at Serena to see if there might be some sort of discount...no word back yet.

OK, the Rwanda amount makes sense because you have the extra permit, extra day vehicle use and extra night accommodation, so even with the downgrade to Gorilla's Nest and Chez Lando, an extra $634pp sounds about right.

However, I too am having a hard time figuring out why the Tanzania/Kenya portion went up from $4749pp ($7035 - $2286) to $5395pp ($8315 - $2920) when I think it should have gone down slightly. You have a) 1 less night in Samburu b) downgrade from Larsens to Serena and c) downgrade from Intercontinental to Panafric. The only addition you made is the private vehicle in the Mara at $240pp, but unless I'm missing something a + b + c should be greater than $240pp for a net decrease.

So I think they might have made a mistake or perhaps they got updated 2008 rates between quoting itinerary 1 and itinerary 2 (just a guess). I would've thought that all 2008 rates would've been available by now too. Sometimes park fees go up without much advance notice so perhaps that's why they have the disclaimer. I would ask them to clarify exactly what they have firm rates for and what's subject to change.

If it's a mistake, I don't see why they wouldn't correct it. I've had my TO mis-quote me once and when I pointed it out to them, they quickly apologized and corrected it. Mistakes happen.

Most prices for '08 have been out since mid-'07. However, there are still amended (higher) prices coming in and probably will until a particular itinerary is booked. And, then there's the issue of price increases in Kenya park fees due to become effective 01 May '08.

If you'd like to know what the increased costs reflect

1) have them extract the Rwanda package from the others; seems to me this is where most change for the extra permit, extra hotel night; also difference in quality hotel on first itinerary vs second.

2) indicate where prices increased over the previous itinerary in each of the three segments - Kenya, Tanzania and Rwanda

Anybody checked the value of the US Peso against the other currencies?

Gardyloo -

Made my day

It's that bad. What a shame!

sandi,
Here are the two quotes given to me regarding the Rwanda portion:

3 days/2nights/1 trek:
"The Rwanda portion (3 day trek) has gone up in price by US$25pp from the 2007 rates quoted to you (new rates came out in Setember) and is currently priced at US$2236pp inclusive of full board accommodation at Kigali Serena and Virunga Mountain Lodge, ground transport and guide, and flights Kilimanjaro-Kigali-Nairobi, plus one gorilla trekking permit."


4 days/3 nights/2 treks:
"The 4 day Rwanda program with the two gorilla treks costs US$2920pp including flights Kilimanjaro-Kigali-Nairobi, gorilla permits, private transfers, half day excursion in Kigali plus full board accommodation at Mountain Gorilla Nest (2 nights) and Hotel Chez Lando (1 night)"


And thanks Patty! I'm still amazed that you take time out your life to answer so thoughtfully here on this forum! I really do appreciate it
Those are the EXACT same figures I'm getting and it just doesn't add up right.

Maybe she'll write me back with good news.
And I could almost see if she says that the increase is due to the 2008 rates. Even though, that first quote is from July 31 and it sounds like most prices were out by then.
And she still made sure to add the disclaimer on this last proposal from Oct 24 about the rates possibly increasing.

But thanks for validating me. At least I feel better now that one of the experts sees it the same as me

Hey Patty, wanna come work with me? How do you do it, let alone find the time? But, believe it or not, as above, some prices still aren't fully confirmed as set for '08. Remember, it's still only Nov '07.

Not knowing where the change in the Kenya/Tanzania may be, I would inquire... it might very well be a calculation error. Ask!

If your first quote was in July, they may not have included the increase in Kenya park fees going into effect next May. And actually, I don't believe that the Samburu and Mara councils have even officially announced an increase yet (those reserves are not managed by Kenya Wildlife Service), but I'd expect them to follow the KWS increase. That's what they did last time. That would account for an extra $20pp per day. And there very well might have been other increases since July. I know that 2 of the camps I was interested in did not have 2008 rates back in August. Now that you mention July, it makes it seem more likely that there might have been increases in between.

Ha ha! I spend <i>way</i> too much time here

Well, that quote was from July 31st.
And even if the price increase is due to 2008 prices coming out, she keeps putting the disclaimer at the end that they are NOT out yet. So that can't be the reason for the increase.
That's why I'm confused and worried.

As it is, I think the price seems too high (of the new itinerary) and now I have to worry that they'll tack on an increase on top of that???

Since it's Friday I'm not expecting to hear back from her until at least Monday.
We'll see......

That may be true, Patty, but you're helpful.

So, it sounds like we had a miscommunication.
The reason for the price increase was that the new price DOES include prices for 2008.

So, I am fine with that. I knew there would be an increase and was prepared for that. I just thought that the increase for 2008 was still to come.

However, she did mention one other thing:
&quot;Because these rates are subject to change without notice (this depends on many factors - fuel, park fees, guide fees, etc) we cannot guarantee that these prices will remain fixed until a few months before your actual safari.&quot;

I was under the assumption that when I put down my initial deposit, that I am entering into a contract with them and the price quoted is the price we agree on.
So, the price can go up next summer a few months before we're ready to leave??

Does anyone have any experience with this?
Seems like it wouldn't be fun to get a notice that you owe X amount more, when you've budgeted a certain amount, not to mention all the tweaking, requesting certain accommodations, etc all based on knowing how much the total trip will cost.

Has this happened to anyone, or can anyone tell me what kind of change we're talking about?
Are we talking $100, hundreds of dollars, or more???

I haven't had it happen, but I can think of a couple of instances where the costs might go up unexpectedly. Some of the prior park fee increases went into effect without a great deal of advance notice. If the cost of fuel continues to rise, air carriers (or other businesses) may impose a fuel surcharge. Again, I haven't had this happen, so I'm just making a best guess.

It's rare that your actual room rates will increase. However, statutory increases such as park fees, fuel surcharges (vehicle, airlines, etc.) may and the outfitter has no control on these and doesn't build-in sufficient funds to cover such increases.

As example: Park fees in Kenya are scheduled to go into effect May 1, 2007. Being Africa, this may or may not happen on May 1. Some outfitters may have already included the increase in their price to clients, other vendor's have not.

With an expected increase at many Kenyan parks y $20/day/person... assuming 10/days, I doubt any outfitter will eat $200/person.

A few years back the price of Avgas went up, mid-season; client's were hit with the increase, depending on the type of internal plane they'd be flying in. It was a small increase, but again the outfitters didn't eat it.

And, with the USD weak and Kenyan Shilling stronger, many prices are askewed.

Thanks to you both for the input