Providence RI VS. St. Loius MO
Jan 8th, 2003, 06:00 PM
#1
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Providence RI VS. St. Loius MO
If you had to live in one versus the other, which would you choose? Why?
Not similar, I know.
And I know this isn't a 'relo forum' (before someone gripes).
But the discussion of pros and cons is definitely travel-related info.
Thanks for any constructive thoughts/opinions.
Not similar, I know.
And I know this isn't a 'relo forum' (before someone gripes).
But the discussion of pros and cons is definitely travel-related info.
Thanks for any constructive thoughts/opinions.
Jan 8th, 2003, 07:05 PM
#4
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Providence by a mile!!!!
a gem in New England - underrated, understated and quite affordable -
Brown U. Prov College, RISD, lends to a good college atmosphere with some of the best Italian restaraunts around. The lighting of the fire pots in the canals in the summer at nite is a treat - and the housing is still quite reasonable for New England - with Boston 1hr away NYC 2 hours and Newport and the bay - ya got it all...
St Louis has:
Crime
Nelly
and a big arch
a gem in New England - underrated, understated and quite affordable -
Brown U. Prov College, RISD, lends to a good college atmosphere with some of the best Italian restaraunts around. The lighting of the fire pots in the canals in the summer at nite is a treat - and the housing is still quite reasonable for New England - with Boston 1hr away NYC 2 hours and Newport and the bay - ya got it all...
St Louis has:
Crime
Nelly
and a big arch
Jan 9th, 2003, 04:47 AM
#8
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I have been accused of being a belover of Providence and it's true. Don't know a thing about St Louis Mo but born and raised and lived in Prov til 1999 when I had to relocate. Is it perfect? Ofcourse not and the people take a bit of getting used to but it is really a gem of a city. Small, conienent to get around though last time I visited I noticed traffic was getting bad everywhere. What I like about it is the vitality and variety of both the people and the buildings. I live in Durham NC now which is pleasant but just no spark. Prov has great resturants, lots of colleges, the ocean is less than an hour away. We also boast a "colorful" political history with the last mayor now in the Big House for racketeering and the new mayor is the son of a lawyer who represented the last big mob boss of the area!
Jan 9th, 2003, 05:51 AM
#9
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Not trying to be snide or brusque, but strongly recommend you travel to each city -- I think the differences would jump out at you. St. Louis is a midwestern city with a strong southern accent, has had its struggles with stayin' alive and race relations but the pioneer spirit still is there. Providence is a raised-from-the-ashes northeastern enclave, whose history has taken it through Catholic and WASP eras of dominance and immigration, with sea-faring and Mediterranean (ethnic, not weather) touches.
I'd choose Providence in a second, but I've lived in the midwest and I don't fit in. If you are from outside the northeast, it's possible you'd feel more at home in St. Louis, although the level of sophistication is -- shall we way -- different.
I'd choose Providence in a second, but I've lived in the midwest and I don't fit in. If you are from outside the northeast, it's possible you'd feel more at home in St. Louis, although the level of sophistication is -- shall we way -- different.
Jan 9th, 2003, 07:11 AM
#10
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You are sort of comparing apples and organges. As everyone here has said, Providence is a pleasant secret in the middle of the NY - Boston megalopolis. But don't be fooled from the ads for the eponymously named TV show: there is plenty of crime in Providence (including one of the most corrupt city governments in the country) and a fragile economy.
St. Louis is a quintessential rustbelt Midwestern city. It will feel provincial to many, but there are many pockets of sophistication. There are quaint small river towns, wineries, and other gems. St. Louis has recently become a hot spot for art (a number of top art museums), one of the finest zoos in the country (and it's free), a world class symphony and opera company (does Providence even have any arts or does one have to travel up to congested Boston).
St. Louis is a quintessential rustbelt Midwestern city. It will feel provincial to many, but there are many pockets of sophistication. There are quaint small river towns, wineries, and other gems. St. Louis has recently become a hot spot for art (a number of top art museums), one of the finest zoos in the country (and it's free), a world class symphony and opera company (does Providence even have any arts or does one have to travel up to congested Boston).
Jan 9th, 2003, 08:22 AM
#11
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Of course Providence has arts. It has the Trinity Rep - one of the finest regional theaters in the US (its won Tonys). It has RISD - the best art school in the country. There are a number of small museums. RISD and Brown keep the avante-gard alive and well in Providence. It really has just about everything a nice city should have - just in smaller quantities. You don't have to go to Boston for arts - its just nice to have it near by if you want to.
You want sports - Providence has sports. For Big East Basketball there's Providence College. For baseball there's the PawSox - the Red Sox's AAA team. For pro football, the Patriots play less than 30 minutes away. The minor league team for the Bruins are in Providence if you like hockey. Both Brown and PC sport pretty darn good hockey teams too.
And may I add the proximity to South County beaches - some of the prettiest beaches in the East. As well as Newport - I have more fun over the years in Newport than just about any other destination I can think of. Feel like going to the Cape or Nantucket or Martha's Vineyard or Block Island. You're there in less than 2 hours.
Providence is a great city but...(there's always a but). It is one of the most provincial cities around. Its all about who you are and who you know. Everyone's related - either by blood, marriage or otherwise. Personally, I like this but I'm used to it because I live in Boston and its the same here. This may not be your cup of tea.
You want sports - Providence has sports. For Big East Basketball there's Providence College. For baseball there's the PawSox - the Red Sox's AAA team. For pro football, the Patriots play less than 30 minutes away. The minor league team for the Bruins are in Providence if you like hockey. Both Brown and PC sport pretty darn good hockey teams too.
And may I add the proximity to South County beaches - some of the prettiest beaches in the East. As well as Newport - I have more fun over the years in Newport than just about any other destination I can think of. Feel like going to the Cape or Nantucket or Martha's Vineyard or Block Island. You're there in less than 2 hours.
Providence is a great city but...(there's always a but). It is one of the most provincial cities around. Its all about who you are and who you know. Everyone's related - either by blood, marriage or otherwise. Personally, I like this but I'm used to it because I live in Boston and its the same here. This may not be your cup of tea.
Jan 9th, 2003, 09:34 AM
#12
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Some of the most thoughtful and informative posts I've read at this forum.
Thanks very much to those who took the time to post.
I really appreciate it, as this is a big decision for us.
My bias is for Providence as well, as the lifestyle (as best as I can tell) seems to suit us better.
It is emotionally wrenching to consider passing up the opportunity to live where Nelly was born and raised. Tomgerger obviously feels my pain.
OK, Collette, what is behind the statement "...the people take a bit of getting used to.."? I know the Northeastern attitude toward strangers and casual friendships is different than in the West and Midwest. Is that what you're referring to? Or is there another wrinkle in the fabric of the personality who have lived in Providence for a length of time?
Thanks very much to those who took the time to post.
I really appreciate it, as this is a big decision for us.
My bias is for Providence as well, as the lifestyle (as best as I can tell) seems to suit us better.
It is emotionally wrenching to consider passing up the opportunity to live where Nelly was born and raised. Tomgerger obviously feels my pain.
OK, Collette, what is behind the statement "...the people take a bit of getting used to.."? I know the Northeastern attitude toward strangers and casual friendships is different than in the West and Midwest. Is that what you're referring to? Or is there another wrinkle in the fabric of the personality who have lived in Providence for a length of time?
Jan 9th, 2003, 11:38 AM
#13
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Darrin - its all about how connected you are to the people you come in contact with. RIers want to know what parish you belong to (b/c everyone is Catholic or assumed to be), what high school you went to (Mount St. Charles? LaSalle?), where do you work? Once they've established all of this they start with " oh my brother went to LaSalle, do you know so and so? "oh my cousins go to St.Pius, they always go to the 10 o'clock Mass, you must know them" "oh you work at Fleet, my next door neighbor's third cousin's ex-wife works there. You must know her" I have sat through so many of these conversations, listening to people struggling to come up with some connection, any connection, however remote between themselves and some one they have just met. Its like they don't want to really talk to you until they establish a reference point of some sort.
And no one ever leaves Rhode Island. Its kind of a statewide joke that if you were born there you'll die there. There once was a bill board on the highway in Providence advertising long distance service saying " CALL EVERYONE YOU KNOW WHO HAS LEFT RHODE ISLAND (both of them )" Too funny and very true. My sister-in-law is from RI and is one of 10 kids. All 9 others live within 20 minutes of each other. 8 of the 9 are married to other lifelong RIers. She lives in Boston - a whopping 45 minutes away and married someone from Mass. She's the "daring" one because she moved 45 minutes away. Its so funny. On the other hand they are the nicest people in the world.
And you should have heard the questions from the guy (originally from RI) in the office next to me when I told him my brother was marrying a girl from Prov. "oh yeah, where she go to school, oh yeah her dad had a restaurant, didn't all those kids go to PC." He actually knew the family - barely - but made a big point of making the connection.
Sorry for the long winded post but you should know what the place is like.
And no one ever leaves Rhode Island. Its kind of a statewide joke that if you were born there you'll die there. There once was a bill board on the highway in Providence advertising long distance service saying " CALL EVERYONE YOU KNOW WHO HAS LEFT RHODE ISLAND (both of them )" Too funny and very true. My sister-in-law is from RI and is one of 10 kids. All 9 others live within 20 minutes of each other. 8 of the 9 are married to other lifelong RIers. She lives in Boston - a whopping 45 minutes away and married someone from Mass. She's the "daring" one because she moved 45 minutes away. Its so funny. On the other hand they are the nicest people in the world.
And you should have heard the questions from the guy (originally from RI) in the office next to me when I told him my brother was marrying a girl from Prov. "oh yeah, where she go to school, oh yeah her dad had a restaurant, didn't all those kids go to PC." He actually knew the family - barely - but made a big point of making the connection.
Sorry for the long winded post but you should know what the place is like.
Jan 9th, 2003, 12:10 PM
#14
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"I know the Northeastern attitude toward strangers and casual friendships is different than in the West and Midwest."
Let me tell you, as someone who has lived in both places, that the attitude toward strangers in the midwest is pretty chilly, and the preference in having friendships is for keeping them casual. In the northeast, friendships are slow to be made but once made, very close. The differences are otherwise less great than you'd think -- has more to do with whether the local people ever leave, have ever been "strangers" somewhere else, and whether they have a lot of family around (so they don't need so many social contacts) than whether you are in RI or MO.
Let me tell you, as someone who has lived in both places, that the attitude toward strangers in the midwest is pretty chilly, and the preference in having friendships is for keeping them casual. In the northeast, friendships are slow to be made but once made, very close. The differences are otherwise less great than you'd think -- has more to do with whether the local people ever leave, have ever been "strangers" somewhere else, and whether they have a lot of family around (so they don't need so many social contacts) than whether you are in RI or MO.
Jan 9th, 2003, 07:27 PM
#15
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As Nelly would say herre in this forum - it is a "Dilemma"
But PVD has nothing comparable to East St Louis and that is a good thing
Most important - This is where most of "Dumb and Dumber" was filmed...you could beam with pride....
And we got the big blue bug on 95....
But PVD has nothing comparable to East St Louis and that is a good thing
Most important - This is where most of "Dumb and Dumber" was filmed...you could beam with pride....
And we got the big blue bug on 95....
Jan 10th, 2003, 08:35 AM
#17
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Darrin,
Providence does have crime just like any other city. However, a gentleman by the name of Dean Esserman was just hired as Providence's new police chief and things seem to be looking up. He was the former police chief of Stamford CT. and under his leadership the crime rate in Stamford dropped significantly.
However, Providence does have other problems, such as the neglected neighborhoods surrounding the downtown area and the high taxes (the taxes are actually high in the whole state of RI). However, Providence has a newly elected mayor as well as a new governor on the state level so things are definitely looking up!
Providence does have crime just like any other city. However, a gentleman by the name of Dean Esserman was just hired as Providence's new police chief and things seem to be looking up. He was the former police chief of Stamford CT. and under his leadership the crime rate in Stamford dropped significantly.
However, Providence does have other problems, such as the neglected neighborhoods surrounding the downtown area and the high taxes (the taxes are actually high in the whole state of RI). However, Providence has a newly elected mayor as well as a new governor on the state level so things are definitely looking up!
Jan 10th, 2003, 08:53 AM
#18
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I'm not sure what exactly Providence's crime rate is. I would guess that the crime rate is lower there than in St. Louis.
I think you could find signs of gang activity (grafitti) in ANY city of significant size, including cities in "quaint" states like VT, NH, & ME.
In the current economy the crimes of theft, robbery have increased. At least they have in Dallas.
What I'm trying to say, not very articulately after a night of disturbed sleep, is that I would be basing my decision primarily on the factors that people have mentioned thus far such as local cultural scene, restaurants, cost of living, proximity to major metropolitan areas and recreational areas and overall ambience.
There's my two cents, for what it's worth.
I think you could find signs of gang activity (grafitti) in ANY city of significant size, including cities in "quaint" states like VT, NH, & ME.
In the current economy the crimes of theft, robbery have increased. At least they have in Dallas.
What I'm trying to say, not very articulately after a night of disturbed sleep, is that I would be basing my decision primarily on the factors that people have mentioned thus far such as local cultural scene, restaurants, cost of living, proximity to major metropolitan areas and recreational areas and overall ambience.
There's my two cents, for what it's worth.
Jan 10th, 2003, 08:58 AM
#20
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the crime in Providence is mostly organized. This means that corruption runs deep. This does not mean that the city is dangerous. Especially compared to soemplace like St. Louis. Walkign on the streets in Providence is a pleasure. Not scary. (most parts anyway)
East. SLouis is one of the toughest places on the planet.
East. SLouis is one of the toughest places on the planet.
