2 women die in fall from cliff on Kaua'i
Dec 20th, 2006, 06:15 AM
#1
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2 women die in fall from cliff on Kaua'i
http://tinyurl.com/y4kbhf
In the article, the writer says "...some visitors arrive armed with information about "secret" trails, which they find in some of the guidebooks and Web sites promoting hikes that are off the beaten track..."
Yet another tragedy. I can picture the title The Ultimate Kauai Guidebook (aka Kauai Revealed) in my mind as I read this. And yes, I know there are more who publish the same dangerous information, but I'm sick at heart when I hear about things like this.
In the article, the writer says "...some visitors arrive armed with information about "secret" trails, which they find in some of the guidebooks and Web sites promoting hikes that are off the beaten track..."
Yet another tragedy. I can picture the title The Ultimate Kauai Guidebook (aka Kauai Revealed) in my mind as I read this. And yes, I know there are more who publish the same dangerous information, but I'm sick at heart when I hear about things like this.
Dec 20th, 2006, 08:55 AM
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Wow. The article also said at the bottom: "Last week, a 25-year-old Chicago man died after jumping off Kipu Falls, which is reached via a trail that is unmarked and on private property, but which also appears in guidebooks and Web travel guides."
It seems to me that "trails" which are not marked and located on private property are NOT really "trails" at all. I am so sick of this wink-wink, nod-nod, approach of these books. First they provide a "disclaimer" that they are not advocating you go onto private property, then they describe EXACTLY how to hike onto that private/restricted property.
Normally, I am a firm believer in people taking responsibility for their own actions (if you don't know that the ocean can always present a drowing hazard, you have no business swimming at a beach). But these kinds of books have to stop.
It seems to me that "trails" which are not marked and located on private property are NOT really "trails" at all. I am so sick of this wink-wink, nod-nod, approach of these books. First they provide a "disclaimer" that they are not advocating you go onto private property, then they describe EXACTLY how to hike onto that private/restricted property.
Normally, I am a firm believer in people taking responsibility for their own actions (if you don't know that the ocean can always present a drowing hazard, you have no business swimming at a beach). But these kinds of books have to stop.
Dec 20th, 2006, 11:55 AM
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These are the most tragic of stories, I completely agree with all who have posted before. We have been to Hawaii three times, and love it. BUT, I do believe people have to use common sense when traveling or exploring.
Dec 20th, 2006, 07:23 PM
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Horribly tragic.
Today I feel truly blessed because I was born with a pretty good amount of common sense.
For all who judge the people that have no common sense - trust me it's not their fault!!!! I come in contact with so very many people in my social and proffessional life that have NO common sense whatsoever.
Therefor, it is our responsability to try to protect these people from themselves! There in lies the problem with some guidebooks. They disclaim responsability and require their readers to have what is truly a gift.....the gift of common sense.
Perhaps these two woman had plenty of common sense. Perhaps they were victim of a minor land slide, and died, due to natural tragic circumstance.
Today I feel truly blessed because I was born with a pretty good amount of common sense.
For all who judge the people that have no common sense - trust me it's not their fault!!!! I come in contact with so very many people in my social and proffessional life that have NO common sense whatsoever.
Therefor, it is our responsability to try to protect these people from themselves! There in lies the problem with some guidebooks. They disclaim responsability and require their readers to have what is truly a gift.....the gift of common sense.
Perhaps these two woman had plenty of common sense. Perhaps they were victim of a minor land slide, and died, due to natural tragic circumstance.
Dec 20th, 2006, 07:42 PM
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Last week, we lost another visitor -- attempting to rescue a visiting youngster who was foolishly swimming at the Lumahai rivermouth. To access Lumahai, one must pass by a lineup of warning signs. Do visitors ignore them? Or do visitors not understand that these are LIFE THREATENING dangers? Or (as most suspect) do visitors think these warnings do not apply to them...???
Dec 20th, 2006, 07:55 PM
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Another tragedy! There seems to be so many. I am glad that I am a cautious person. "Sick at heart" yes kamahinaohoku, I am too as these incidents are so heartbreaking.
Aloha sistahlou, I hope all is well in your life..Mele Kalikimakea!
Aloha sistahlou, I hope all is well in your life..Mele Kalikimakea!
Dec 20th, 2006, 08:24 PM
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This book has a whole chapter of stories by park rangers about people who have gone "off-trail," like these two women did, and have got into serious trouble. The rangers provide plenty of tips on how hikers can stay out of peril, even as they enjoy the awesome beauty of Hawaii.
http://www.survivingparadisehawaii.com/buy_the_book.php
http://www.survivingparadisehawaii.com/buy_the_book.php
Dec 20th, 2006, 09:09 PM
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Just returned from Oahu, it seems as though at least once during the week we are visiting there is a tourist death from a fall or drowning. When one in vacation you do things you may not normally do at home because one is relaxed and are more willing to try new or different things. It's so sad to hear when someone is traveling and they pass away due to a judgement error.
I'm actually surprised the guide book publishes that type of "secret info" since there are so many lawsuits this day due to misinformation or faulty advice.
I'm actually surprised the guide book publishes that type of "secret info" since there are so many lawsuits this day due to misinformation or faulty advice.
Dec 20th, 2006, 10:37 PM
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This is not same people story, but is the same story with different peoples from our area in CA. Can it happen to anyone. Always a tragedy.
http://starbulletin.com/2006/11/22/news/story12.html
AR
http://starbulletin.com/2006/11/22/news/story12.html
AR
Dec 21st, 2006, 05:51 AM
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Additional information: http://tinyurl.com/tx8gf
From the article: Elizabeth Ann Brem, 35, of Encinitas, Calif., and her cousin, Paula Gonzalez Ramirez, 29, of Colombia, died Tuesday after falling 250 to 300 feet from a cliff on an unmarked trail near the falls....Brem was the mother of two children...and was fluent in Spanish, graduated summa cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa in 1993 from Barnard College, and graduated from Yale Law School in 1996.
To me it's amazing that an intelligent, educated woman, a mother of 2, and her cousin, both lose their lives for a view of a "hidden waterfall...a hidden hike".
Ms. Brem was a lawyer and an appointed as one of 13 members of the California Coastal Conservancy. It will be interesting to see exactly WHICH guidebook she used...can you say lawsuit, boys and girls?
Tragic and pathetic.
From the article: Elizabeth Ann Brem, 35, of Encinitas, Calif., and her cousin, Paula Gonzalez Ramirez, 29, of Colombia, died Tuesday after falling 250 to 300 feet from a cliff on an unmarked trail near the falls....Brem was the mother of two children...and was fluent in Spanish, graduated summa cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa in 1993 from Barnard College, and graduated from Yale Law School in 1996.
To me it's amazing that an intelligent, educated woman, a mother of 2, and her cousin, both lose their lives for a view of a "hidden waterfall...a hidden hike".
Ms. Brem was a lawyer and an appointed as one of 13 members of the California Coastal Conservancy. It will be interesting to see exactly WHICH guidebook she used...can you say lawsuit, boys and girls?
Tragic and pathetic.
Dec 21st, 2006, 05:56 AM
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Dec 21st, 2006, 07:37 AM
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More info and pictures...I thought the trail had signs posted to stay out and extreme danger??
http://starbulletin.com/2006/12/21/news/story07.html
http://starbulletin.com/2006/12/21/news/story07.html
Dec 21st, 2006, 07:39 AM
#19
And it's amazing that Ms. Brem didn't know that these places are dangerous, living as she did in an area known for rock slides and crumbling cliffs. I just read that she and her husband were building a house on Neptune Drive, a street where people have lost part of their backyards to the ocean. They took a wrong turn, one of them slipped in mud and the ending was diastrous for both of them. It IS very sad, but stop blaming the guide books. When are you going to assign responsibility for stupid actions to the people who make the stupid actions?
