powerhungrymice

Who's travelling: me and my boyfriend, we're both asian, in our early 20s.

When we're travelling: over christmas and new year's 2006

Where do we want to go: france, italy and london. we're in Germany beforehand with friends for a month and then from then on, i'm totally clueless. but we definitely need to leave London by the 1st week of Jan.

1) Is it more cost effective to do tours of rome paris london e.g. trafalgar, cosmos, etc for 8 days then spend the rest of the week with day tours/independent in London, than flying cheap from Cologne to Rome, staying 3 days each in Rome, Paris ??? in hostels ?? what do we do with our time?? will it end up costing us alot more??

2) we've looked at trafalgar and other tours..but AUD$1500 for 8 days, is it worth it? Do we spend more time travelling from place to place on a bus than actually being in any 1 city?

Will the weather have any bearing on our decisions?

We only speak English and are struggling to learn some conversational German now..how will we get by on our own?

This is our very 1st time in Europe, and I have no idea where to start. We're on a small budget and want to see the major cities the best way possible.

I've looked at many forums and so many people have been-there-done-that, so the info given doesn't apply to me at all...e.g. We can't rent a car. Out of the question. We can't find some obscure little French town and walk around soaking in the local culture -- no way.

We need a miracle, or a lottery win. Please help!

capxxx

I think you'll save money doing it yourself. You might find an inexpensive tour, but most of them are more upscale than you probably want.

Here are ways to save money:
+ Consider using youth hostels. You don't have to be a youth. They provide really inexpensive dorm-like accomodations.
+Get an apartment and make day trips, rather than stopping in different towns.
+ Buy groceries and eat in your room, or have picnics, rather than using restuarants.
+ Take the bus or train.

Find one of those `Go ' guidebooks for more advice on travelling on a student budget.

capxxx

Sorry, they're called `Let's Go' guides. They are written with the budget/student traveller in mind.

mamc

I agree that you can do better on your own than if you go on a tour. And, with 2 weeks, you probably should not try to do London, France and Italy unless you plan to include only the 3 major cities of London, Paris and Rome. You might consider choosing either London and France or 2 weeks in Italy - there is so much to see.
You will be fine in both France and Italy without speaking the language fluently but you have time to learn a few polite phrases.
If you are visiting only the major cities, you don't need or want a car. Trains are great and you should look into budget airline options between Paris and Rome. Good luck with your planning and when you have firmed your plans a bit, we'll be happy to answer questions.

Jenner

When you say you want to do France, Italy and London, do you really mean you want to do Paris, Rome and London? Or do you actually want to take in more than those three cities? I think you could see those big three, but would be hard pressed to do much more, unless you can fit in some day trips around each city (totally possible).

Check out some of the cheap airlines... ryanair or easyjet. There are probably others, but both of those fly to London from a number of places.
If you book in advance they can be unbelievably cheap (though read their restrictions because they can be real sticklers - ie: don't be late, and don't overpack). If you do one of those tours, yes, you will spend a lot of time just sitting on a bus. They might take you by more places than you can get to flying between your cities, but everything would be such a blur!

At your age I wouldn't do a tour. Snore! As the other poster said, youth hostels are cheap and I usually found them clean and sufficient. Many these days have double rooms, too, so you don't necessarily have to do the dormitory thing. And it can be fun, meeting people from all over the world, sharing travel tips.... You know, I've never stayed in a youth hostel again since my first trip and I always kind of miss it. If you're shy, like me, hotels can mean never speaking to anyone other than your companion for the entire trip!

Youth hostels will also usually provide breakfast, sparse as it may be. It was usually two bread rolls with cheese or jam. Ok, I was really on a tight budget, but quite often I'd save one of those rolls for lunch - two meals, done! We also stopped in grocery stores lots and always had snacks (bread, cheese, yogurt, fruit, etc) on hand. We usually ate out for dinner, but the nice thing in Europe is that most restaurants post their menu outside so you can see if it's in your budget before you go in!

I might get blasted for this, as some people here do NOT like Rick Steves' guidebooks. Having used them a few times and now living in Europe I have grown tired of them myself. However, I think for a first trip they are pretty good. You might want Let's Go or Lonely Planet for lodgings and cheap eats, but the Rick Steves books tell you stuff about budgeting and what's really worth seeing. The other books just list the sights and rarely tell you what's worth your time, and on a quick trip you do need to budget that, too.

I travelled for two months all over Europe when I was 21, only spoke a tiny bit of high school French and never had a problem. Lots of people in those places speak English (especially wherever there are other tourists!), and to order lunch or pay for your hotel you don't really need to speak the same language! Just learn some greetings, please and thank-you and you'll do fine. Heck, I *live* in Europe and don't speak the language (yet! I'm learning!), and I get by.

Yeah, the weather will be crap, face it. Bring warm clothes, a waterproof jacket and drink lots of warm beverages - you'll still have fun!

SAnParis

I would pick two of the three, both due to time & cost restraints. Your time will be better spent that way & it will be cheaper. Avoid the tours & do your homework (which you've obviously already started). The youth hostel suggestion is a good one but I would opt for the private rooms w/baths if available, it beats the dorm style bunk bed rooms w/the bath down the hall. Your first task should be to decide what you really want to see/experience.

Bokhara

Hi Powerhungrymice,
Are you from Australia? (noticed you quoted AUD in the Trafalgar pricing). If so - yes, you'll find it cold (but you'll already have had a month in Germany to acclimatise). Everyone has central heating (likewise the public transport). As it'll be low or shoulder season, you'll get better deals on most things (especially accommodation) than in the warmer months.

I think you'll find the air travel within Europe really cheap; as the other posters suggest, check out the budget airlines on-line. Budgettravel.com might be a starting point.

If you're students, you might be able to get extra concessions. Irrespective of this, you may also be able to stay in some University accommodation as the students will probably be on holidays. Friends of mine did this in London last year & saved a mint. Let me check & get back to you on this one.

Do check out the youth hostels. Some of them are in really lovely old castles etc and certainly are a big advance on the old days of "dorms" only. The other option might be either to rent a flat or look for B & B's in London, Paris & Rome/Florence/Venice. You could try www.nyhabitat.com for London. I'm sure there are zillions of agencies specialising in holiday lettings.

You'll have a much better feel for Europe once you've been in Germany a couple of weeks and this might help you refine what you really want to do & see in your final fortnight. Again, I would agree that you'll not only save $$'s but probably have a better time doing it on your own rather than an organized tour. Each city will have small tours, whether 1/2 or full day, walking or on hop-on, hop-off buses. I find these a great way to get an initial glimpse of a new city and to find my bearings. I did a walking one in Rome and it was just fantastic - only 3 other people and a most enthusiastic and knowledgeable guide (volunteer).

Do learn a few phrases in French & Italian (I assume you already have some German?). Everyone will be very charmed that you make the effort and forgiving of your errors (trust me on this one (LOL) ... my "11 words of fractured Italian" stood me in good stead on my first trip)

If you haven't already done so, borrow some DVD's on your 3 or 4 chosen cities to give you an overview. Then get a couple of travel guides that suit your style. Someone suggested on another post to look up your own home city in a few to establish accuracy & find a writing style, sphere of interest that suits you.

Tango

Don't know how much I have to add, but we (my boyfriend and I) went to Paris and Munich about 8 years ago on about $1600 (I don't think it will be much more even though that was awhile ago, maybe $2000)for about 10-12 days. We rented an apartment outside Paris and took the subway everywhere (see the post on the Carte Orange ticket), bought groceries, researched restaurants ahead of time to make sure we were getting the best food for the best price, etc.

We speak a little French and NO GERMAN. But we did fine - as I am sure you will do, no matter where you go, as long as you are polite. I think 2-3 cities in 2 weeks is enough, maybe four at most. All the travel may make your budget go up, especially with gas prices being so high. So it might be better to stay in less places and see more. You could just stay in Paris and not see everything in 2 weeks.

You also might see how much tickets to the museums cost if you buy ahead of time - kind of like the Carte Orange idea. That might save money too.

Weather - we went again to Paris/London in the winter (Dec/Jan). Very cold. We are from the East Coast so the weather seemed just like we were at home. If you are from a warm area - it may bother you. I thoroughly enjoyed London in the cold weather but did not enjoy Paris as much in the cold. You probably want to check it out, but I believe Italy is not as cold as Paris and London at that time. Rome is actually kind of tropical! I remember being surprised that there were Palm Trees there. Anyway, if that is when you can go then just do it!

Hope this helps.

jules4je7

Mice -- I'd recommend going to your local library and borrowing their travel videos. Rick Steves has a nice series -- one called "Travel Skills", his Europe Through The Back Door theme...he also has a book called Europe Through The Back Door that has a good recommended itinerary for those who are on limited time and budgets. You can buy the book for $20 through Amazon.com if you don't live in a big city with a well-stocked travel section.

You CAN see a lot in 2 weeks, you could spend 4 days in Rome, go to Paris, spend 4-5 days there, then take the train to London (only 3 hours from Paris) and spend a few days there.

I'd recommend hostels too to keep your costs down, particularly in London where the British Pound is strong and money gets stretched tight for even the moderate traveler.

A good guidebook (Let's Go is also a good budget guide, but not as detailed as Rick's) will help you make your plans.

Happy travels.

Jules

david_west

My advice would be to axe Rome from your itenery and just do London and Paris. The reason for this is that there are some VERY cheap ways of getting between the two.

Normally Rome is well served by budget airlines from London (and possibly Paris – I don’t know), but the time of year you are coming is peak season for airfares and even the budget airlines will be pretty expensive.

For London: You mention you are Asian. This does give you a couple of options that may appeal (what sort of Asian? I ‘m sorry if that sounds ignorant but in Britain “Asian” means from the Indian sub continent, and that is the use you will find on any English websites). Depending on the type you may like to do a google search eg “Korean hostels London” as there will be guesthouses and hostels aimed at that particular group, who have come to London for work. These will usually be in the suburbs some distance from the centre of town, but may be worth a look.

The Youth Hostel Association “YHA” has hostels in London. Have a look on their website.

This place is well situated and cheap (I’m not recommending it, but I do the building very well as I worked in it in it’s previous incarnation as a hostel and it was built as accommodation (a police section house). It ‘s pretty cheap:

http://www.travelstay.com/pages/GeneratorHostel.htm

You can get from London to Paris on the bus. It’s a bit of a slog but it costs bobbins: Eurolines are the best known.

One last thing. You mention prices in AUDs – is that Australian Dollars. If so have a nose round this site. It’s the main newspaper for young tea leaves in London and has loads of cheap tours and travel deals:

http://www.tntmagazine.com/uk/

Worth a look even if you have never stolen a sheep in your life.

Travelnut

Actually, I've noticed on some hotel websites that the holiday season may bring in <i>increase</i> in room rates, especially New Years.

suze

You can see some of Europe in 2 weeks time. It is not necessary to speak the language, and you can get around only by train and low-budget airlines maybe.

First step, is picking what you really want to see. Is it London and Paris? Certainly you can't see all of France and Italy, so pick just 1-2 cities besides London that you want to go to.

Maybe you have already read the forum, but at the Lonely Planet website on The Thorn Tree message board there's a branch called Europe on a Shoestring with loads of tips for well &quot;shoestring&quot; traveling style, i.e., really cheap!

Planning something simple, like 1 week in London and 1 week in Paris is really pretty easy. You can make hostel reservations ahead on the internet.

As already mentioned above, keep it cheap by staying out of restaurants and pubs (eat at modest cafes, to-go food, from the grocery store, buy your own beer or wine if you drink), stay at hostels or 1-star hotels, watch for free anything (free museum days, free music, etc.).

Regarding the weather, obviously it will be cold so pack clothes accordingly. Beyond that, I don't know why it should influences your trip.

Enjoy!

suze

&lt;Do we spend more time travelling from place to place on a bus than actually being in any 1 city?&gt;

YES, but that's why some people choose a tour, if you want to see alot of cities in a short period of time...

Bokhara

Hello the mice: Re London University accommodation - my friend &amp; her sister stayed in University digs for around $60/night. They had single rooms with shared bathrooms but said next time they'd pay a little extra &amp; get rooms with ensuites. They also have double rooms. She can't remember the website but said to Google London University Accommodation &amp; you should come up with something. Also said to check out some Convents. I would try &quot;Budget accommodation London&quot; or similar &amp; see what you come up with. Best hop in early.
Good luck &amp; have a great trip. Don't fret about only having 2 weeks - as long as you're flexible, optimistic &amp; looking forward to the adventure, you'll have a ball.

StCirq

London's really expensive. If you can cut it from your trip you can make your travel dollars do a lot farther.

wemr

with your criteria youth hostels or independant hostels would be the best option and by far the most fun.

diputsgurl

go to studentuniverse.com and click on rail, there are several different types of passes depnding on where you want to go and how you want to travel. everything in europe is discounted if you are under 26, so make sure you click the under 26 buttons. also, ryanair.com and easyjet.com are both good for cheap flights, depending on when you want to go. a lot of times you can get somewhere for 20 euros to fly one way, so check those out too. as far as eating goes when traveling cheap, grocery stores are great. in france, you can buy enough bread cheese and fruit to feed two people for under 5 euro apeice at any grocery store, versus 10 or 15 euro at a cheap restuarant, especially in paris. i'm a student spending a year in france on a very tight budget, and trying to travel on the side, i feel your pain. buy a guidebook, europe by rail or anything to that effect, it will have good tips for you as well. if you pick up a guide book, you'll also be able to pick out things you want to see, and then you won't have to spend as much money on independant tours. the metro in london and paris is great, you can buy a day or a week pass and it will take you every where. most cities have a museum pass as well, where you can pay X dollars and go to certain museums. the best advice i can give you though is buy a guidebook, it'll help you figure out the cheapest ways to do things before you leave the states. you can also get a 12-25 card, which gives you disconts on things as well.

hope that helps some.