It's Sarlat, not Sarlet. And since you mention it, I find it amazing that you are traveling for this length of time and not giving your kids the amazing break that a week at least in the Périgord Noir would afford them, instead of shoveling them through southwest of France and on to Barcelona. Are you not aware of all the amazing things there are for kids to do in the Périgord? Caves, kayaking, hiking, troglodyte villages, castles, trébuchet exhibitions, zip lines, and on and on and on...I guess you're just fixated on getting to the next big city. Doesn't make sense to me, which is why I've pretty much stayed off this thread.

I've commented before on your exhausting itinerary, but I do hope you will post a trip report (maybe even a live report).

Thanks, StCirq., for the activities list in Périgord; our 11 year-old daughter and I are in the early stages of hatching a road trip once school ends this summer, and the outdoor activities make the area an attractive destination for two of us, more so than for a 2 and 4 year-old.

Thanks StCirq . . .We had already had booked Barcelona in on this date thinking that a few nights would be enough! We had no idea really and it looks really beautiful! Point taken about SARLET! Sorry! We could cut into our stay in Paris as we are there for 7days (in hope we can do a fair bit of day trips) I really thank you for all the time you have put in to helping me over the past month! I know from your advice that when I arrive I will more then likely kick myself for not staying longer but I guess that's what happens whenever one travels to new destinations! I looked into the places you suggested but they wanted us to stay for longer then a few days .. . so I do still need help in finding short stay places

At this stage the plan for Italy is something like this

Day 45-50 - Bracciano (visit Rome from this location)

Day50-51 - Mugello area of Tuscany -- rest

Day 53-55 - Peschiera del Garda

Your itinerary, while obviously not what most people on the forum would attempt with such little ones, is somewhat clearer and more cohesive than at the beginning of your planning - until you get to Avignon where it gets confusing.

There you start putting the same day in two places. You have day 38 in both Avignon and Varenna, day 57 in both Innsbrook and Munich, day 59 in both Munich and Prague, Day 63 in both Prague and Berlin, Day 67 in both Berlin and Frankfurt.

Your itinerary is kind of glossing over the travel times between places. You can make a better trip by nailing those travel times down and including them in the itinerary.

Example:
Days 43-55,Italy somewhere (3 days-3/4nts)
Day 56, Travel from ? to Innsbrook (1 day)
Day 57, Innsbrook (1 day-2nts)
Day 58, Travel Innsbrook to Munich(1/2 day +)
Days 59-60, Munich (2 days-3nts)
Day 61, Travel Munich to Prague (1 day)
Days 62-63, Prague (2 days-3nts)
Day 64, Travel to Berlin
Days 65-67, Berlin (3 days-4nts)
Day 68 Travel Berlin to Frankfurt(most of a day)
Day 69-70 Frankfurt(1 day-2nts if flying out on day 70)
(2 days-3nts if flying out on day 71)

When you see it layed out in sequenced days/nights, you start to see how little/how much time you will actually have in each place and how many days on the road.

Just wondering , have you done a road trip like this with your kids yet, I mean even a two or three week one? With 6-8 or so destinations?
I do understand that people have different travel styles, and if you didn't have tots with you it would likely be more of an adventure, but with tots, I really see some serious travel fatique happening after the second week or so .. but you know your kids best I guess ( I know my three would have found your schedule too grueling) .

I do hope it works out, and I do hope you come back and give us a trip report, if nothing else it will be a learning experience for us too! You can prove some of us nervous nellys wrong!

<<<Sassafrass>>> thanks for that . . didn't notice that! Like what you did !!!

<<<justineparis>>> In western Australia we have long travel times to get to places but then there is not alot of places to go. We have done a 6 week road trip up north with no worries when they were younger and have done a 3 week go go go trip down south which the kids loved!

I PROMISE i will share you the trip with what has worked and hasn't etc

Yuo know, you may want to do this a lot, but the two year old is not going to remember any of it, and the four year old won't remember much. You have to deal with diapers and sippy cups and blankets with names that HAVE to be ready for bedtimes no matter how messy they are, and you will have to deal with washing machines and driers that don't work at all like those at home.

I know it seems like a long time, but if you wait four or even better five years for this grand tour, you all will have a good time.

On this trip, you will _never_ be able to go out to a nice dinner or a concert or a show. Most of the better places to eat in the counries you are visiting don't even open for dinner until after the kids' bedtime. Daytrips from Paris? With a baby and an infant on public transportation?

UNLESS, and here is a way your plan becomes completely possible, unless you hire a high school or college student to come along with you as a mother's helper. What would an additional person cost in relation to what you will be paying for the rest of the trip? I would bet that except for the airfare, the amount will be trivial in terms of the possibilities it would open up. I would be surprised if you would have to pay a lot beyond a free trip and spending money to do this with/for you.

ah, I appricieate the long distances in Australia( I am from Canada) , but as you said, theres not alot of places to go. Your Europeon trip is action packed, there will be sites to see almost every single day, musuems, churches, castles, hotel changes, big cities( and some of those cities will have you ushering your tots through crowds, and many of the sites will involve waiting in lines for tickets) so its a more intense experience , for the kids, and for you . I guess once you start you can always decide to "take days off" from siteseeing and that will likely help.

crazy - when our first child was very small we tried doing a trip like this [in N. America actually] and we quickly learnt our lesson. after that we tended to rent a house or similar and stay put for a week or so, which was must more successful for our kids and therefore for us.


IMO you could still have a great trip and see loads [in fact, IMO you'd see more] if you slowed right down.

you could for example do this:

Day 1- Windsor

Day 2-7- Devon

Day 7-9 -Bath

Day 10-16 London

Day 17-23 -Paris

Day24-29- SarlAt?

Day 30-34-Barcelona

Day 35-40- Avignon

Day 40-47- Varenna

Day 47-53- dolomites?

Day 53 - 57 - Venice

Day 57 - 59 Innsbruck

Day 59-63 - Prague

Day 63 - 67 - Berlin

Day 67 -70 -Frankfurt


it's not perfect, but IMO it's getting there.

<<<Ackislander>>> thank you for your thoughts .. .there are reasons behind our travel and pnly yesterday I was talking to someone who was telling me that she thank god every day for doing the trip with her 2 small children as her husband died 9 weeks later from there return! Besides flights are paid and we are going! Also both kids are toilet trained, they don't need drinks before bed and are already able to do late dinners etc...in my last two threads I made this very clear that my children will be fine and I look forward to sharing the trip report with you.

We also have a few people along the way to use if we wish to go out for a dinner just the two of us and we know our daughter won't remember .. So thank you for your concern but it's happening.

<<<annhig>>> Thanks again! I like your run down! Do you think we could get to Barcelona from Sarlat in a day? I really don't understand why people like Venice! It was alright but I feel like I've been there done that .. unlike ROme I could go back to time and time again Funny how we are all different! Never thought of the dolomites...might look into that! Again Innsbruck to Prague in a day???? is this doable? Thanks again Annhig ...you have been soooo helpful.

<<<justinparis>>> We are aware of that! That's why we plan on doing ALOT of the Hop on Hop off bus tours! We have one over here and I took the kids on that and they loved it! So we figure we will do that whenever possible etc

Thanks everyone for your help with this trip. Really do appreciate it!

So which do you think is better for after Paris?

Paris--> Bordeaux--> Pau--> Roda de Isábena--> Barcelona

or

Loire valley ----- >Sarlat ------> Carcassonne ------- > Barcelona

also what do you think is a reasonable amount to pay for 2bed place in France? Is 150euros a night reasonable? I notice a lot of places want a week stay which is fine if it works out for us to be around this amount over the four days ... e.g. one week is $500 euros -

I have gone over all my old threads and have cut and pasted the bits n pieces into an email so they are there!

CAN I JUST SAY AGAIN THANK YOU FOR HELPING ME CREATE THE TRIP OF A LIFETIME FOR MY FAMILY!

In case you would want a babysitter in London, I can recommend Universal Aunts. They are very reliable.

Good luck with your trip!

I'd guess the second route, but don't really know anything about Pau and Roda whatever, I just can't imagine why Bordeaux would be of interest in a family vacation with small children, and other itinerary sounds okay on the surface.

I"m not clear on what you are asking about the 150 euro for 2 beds in France. If you mean a double hotel room, yes, that should be fine. Of course prices vary by location, but even in the most expensive cities (ie, Paris), you can easily get a double hotel room for that rate. I also don't know what you are referring to about places requiring a week's stay. What kind of places owuld those be. The only places that routinely do that which I've noticed are maybe gites or B&B/inns in Provence during high season, something like that. Hotels certainly don't and most apartment rentals don't either.

So 150 euro per night is enough for a double hotel room, but you have four people so that's why I am not clear on why you would ask that. Your children will count as number of poeple in the room and cannot just stay in a hotel room for two adults without some accommodations being made and subsequent costs. No hotel will allow that, although there are many that have special rates for extra beds or whatever.

If you are thinking you will get a hotel room with 2 king or queen size beds (or even double beds, ie, 140 cm), that is very rare in France.

I don't think Bordeaux will be of much interest at all. And I don't get the 2-bed question, either. Hotels in France are very strict about the number of people in a hotel room, so you can't expect to cram 4 people into a 2-bed room unless it's already designated as a room for 4 people, and that will cost more than a simple double room. You'll be turned away if you try to take 2 kids into a double room. If you're talking about something other than hotels, you need to clarify that.

While Pau is very pretty, I think your second route makes much more sense and will be enjoyable.

Are you asking about hotels, gîtes (self-catering cottages or flats) or chambres d'hôtes (B&Bs)? Your budget should be fine outside Paris. Family rooms do exist but they go fast.

I would start by looking at what's available in the towns/villages where you want to stop. Options will emerge and people here can help you evaluate. For example, 2-bedroom gîtes in my area, an hour SW of Toulouse, run around 500-700€ per week, but this is not as popular an area as the Dordogne. That said, the prices won't be double the Dordogne, but the more reasonable places will be booked earlier.

Open your search to the Sarlat area, not just Sarlat, similarly for Carcassonne. For example, try Limoux.

I'm pretty sure crazyf is asking about 2 bedroom rentals (looking at the context where she mentions having to book for a week)

I thought so as well which is why I was discussing gîtes, but wanted her to explore the other options as well.

Possible but not easy to rent a gîte for less than a week in August. But, if I understand her thinking, they would be willing to pay for a full week if the nightly rate for their stay were around 150€.

Actually, just noticied a typo, my post should read "won't be double IN the Dordogne..."

Crazy - i checked driving times on google maps. [put in your destination, then go to get directions, press button, fill in start point, press button - voila!]

Sarlat - Barcelona is about 5 1/2 - 6 hours drive, Innsbruck to Prague about 5 hours.

viamichelin.com do good directions too.

normally I'd not suggest such long drives, but if you've had a nice long time in one place, a long drive to the next isn't too bad, and with small children is preferable IMO to several short hops.

annhig,

We use viamichelin all the time.

It's a good idea to add not only time for stops but for traffic--maybe 20-30%.

interesting cath - michelin says that it's 6 hours between Innsbruck and Prague, and 6 1/2 -7 hours from Sarlat to Barcelona.

both are certainly long days, but doable if they are not repeated too often.

I think one long drive is preferable to lots of little ones, especially with kids in tow.

I agree, I'm not saying don't do it, particularly in August with lots of daylight. Just noting to be aware that ime the quoted times are optimistic.

With luck, kids conk out for long periods, always a bonus on long drives!

The problem with the drive from Sarlat to Barcelona in peak season is that at some point you either have to go over the Pyrénées (PITA if you're not on a leisurely trip through the area) or take the coastal road (PITA if you're not on a fun beach trip - traffic can be a horror in summer). I'd be surprised if someone could make it with 2 small kids in the car in under 8 hours (and that wouldn't even count getting to lodgings in Barcelona once there).

SC,

Good points.

Anyway, OP wants to do Carcassonne which would break the drive to Barcelona and of course offers a fantasy castle as well.

Morning! Sorry about the confusion re rooms . .yes It should read 2 bedrooms . . . the two routes where recommended to me in past threads. We really don't know much about the south of France . .everywhere looks just beautiful . .so I am more then happy to go off your recommendations. I had a look at a few places last night . . .

http://www.vrbo.com/91510ha

http://www.vrbo.com/439272ha?unitId=1160235

http://www.vrbo.com/631640ha ( which looks like a favourite but just not sure of the location and the drive to barcelona etc)

Anyway, as always SC,Cath,ann,janisj and the others . .thank you!

You really can't, IMO, drive from Sarlat to Barcelona in a day with a stop in Carcassonne. Best to spend the night somewhere in the area (not Carcassonne itself necessarily). And then they'll be pretty much forced onto that coastal route, which can be jammed.

Oh SC . . what did you recommend again? 30th June-5th July?

Not sure what your question is, crazy. Just saying that the long haul from Sarlat to Barcelona can't be accomplished in a day if you plan to stop in Carcassonne. Are you saying you have 5 days for this leg? Then of course you can do it. One day? No. And BTW, you are hitting all the "hot spots" on these planned routes, but missing out on a load of gorgeous venues.

I literally lose the thread some times.

So, total of 5/6 days between Paris and Barcelona? How do you want to split that time?

Your vrbo posts 1 and 2 look fine for the Loire. The 3rd is west of the Dordogne so is more on your itinerary 1 path.

If you drive from Sarlat in the Dordogne to Barcelona it is a long day. My thought was to break the drive in or near Carcassonne with an overnight. In the summer, the sheer logistics of getting in and out of there and walking around the walled city would be 3 hours.

Thanks sc and cath ... So if I have 6 days should I do a night somewhere before I hit sarlat ...stay in sarlat for 4nights and then carcassonne for one night?

The choices are based off grouches we get over here ... Are there better spots??? It all looks amazing so I can't see how I could go wrong in France.

Grouches? Have no idea what that means. I wouldn't actually stay in Carcassonne, as I said before. As Cath says, it's going to take a minimum of 3 hours just to park and visit the walled city, but it's not an ideal place to spend a night, whether in the upper or lower town. You'd be better off lodging in, say, Limoux or Quillan, or Narbonne.

And yes, you should break up the drive from Paris to Sarlat - it's a horrible drive (if that's your plan - I can't really follow this plan, either, cath). I wouldn't even do it - I'd take the train. But if you do drive, stop at least halfway if you can.

Well .... We haven't got the lease booed in yet ... So trains can be an option but I thought a car would give us more flexibility to see the surroundings ... I see I could catch a train from Paris to Barcelona and miss the south of France ??? Then train from Barcelona to somewhere in France and pick up our car ... If you all really believe this is the best idea.

Grouches - pamphlets (iPad over ride again)

Hubby thinks its hillerous that I place so much trust into strangers! Hahaha .. Sorry if I am all over the place! I am taking on the advice!

The thing is , you don't have to trust strangers, but you can listen and read what they say , then you can do some reasearch to see if what people say is supportable by some facts.. so if someone says something like " the drive is more like 6 hours then 4 " thats easy to research. Same with things like rental drop off fees, or what sites are in a place, etc.. so I think you are actually being really smart, you don't have to accept anything anyone says, but at least it gives you alot to think about and look into. Your familys trip is going to be unique to what your family wants to do, but a few facts being straightened out can really help make the logistics smoother.

Your trip will end up wonderful because you are doing all this reasearch, and I think you are probably smart enough to sift through opinions of taste, facts, and what may or may not apply specifically to your familys travel style.

I know ...and I really think the advice we have been given is helping us and I am really THANKFUL I am off to a travel expo today to get some more info.

Prague apartment : Thoughts? Is it in a good location?

http://www.vrbo.com/448782ha

or are we better in the old town?

http://www.vrbo.com/3490176ha

We rented a flat over New Year's week just around the corner from your Old Town choice (3490176), and enjoyed the area very much. The walk to the Palladium, a large shopping mall with restaurants and a grocery store was about 5 minutes away; and the walk to Stare Mesto (Old Town) about the same. While not lively at night, we felt very safe being out, and even allowing our children (11, 16) to walk the dog together.

So first stop from Paris is somewhere in Loire-Valley . . This is in Amboise

http://www.vrbo.com/397969

so we would stay here for 2 nights. Is this a good location?

crazy that place in Amboise sounds wondeful. I have stayed in Amboise for a few nights to tour the chateaus and it is a wonderful base for Loire Valley.
I also note this apartment has a total bonus( and you will learn why eventually..lol) save up your laundry for here as it has a SEPERATE washer and dryer, not the evil COMBO machines.. total bonus! lol

excellent! Thanks for that! I have contacted the owner and hopefully I can still get it for those few nights! Onto to now trying to find our next spot in Dordogne. SO many place want a weeks stay

We stayed here just outside of Sarlat and loved it http://www.les-granges-hautes.fr/

and this is a place recommended to me for Sarlat

http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Hotel_Review-g196508-d2264579-Reviews-Les_Trois_Jardins-Sarlat_la_Caneda_Dordogne_Aquitaine.html

Thinking of a night in Toulouse on the way to Barcelona. Thoughts?

jamikins . . the placed you stayed . . were you able to walk into the town? I think the place I listed you can. It's been recommended but it doesn't have a pool and it might be nice to have the option of a swim with the kids.

Nope, it's a good 10 mins drive from the centre of town.

Hmmmm ...which do you think is better then . .. I am thinking the first one. Being able to walk into town would be nice.

Depends...you may need a break from the hustle and bustle of cities by then...

true . .however she has been really nice and I get a good feeling . . .I think we will stay there . .she is booked out on either side of my booking which can only be a good sign. But thanks again for your suggestion.

what's your thoughts on

http://www.booking.com/hotel/fr/le-clos-des-tourelles.en.html

thinking of here after Barcelona . .I hear Avignon has a festival on or something.

thanks for your help!  

ok update time
First week is done - not booked though but we have a plan, 2nd week London - again not booked, 3rd week Paris - booked, 4th week - 3nights Amboise, 3 nights Sarlat, 3nights Barcelona - all booked,

5th/6th Week - - -Avignon ( or somewhere close by ) Sanremo 2 nights and Varenna 4 nights ( this is because we are spending a day in Milan - we have been before / we got engaged there so we plan on going back to those places close to our hearts) Lucca 3 nights , Siena 4 nights

7th week - Rome or Bracciano with a day trip to Rome and then we get stuck but we have 4 days to get to Innsbruck.

8th week- Munich 2 nights, Prague 3 nights, Berlin 3 nights, Frankfurt 4 nights - day trip to Offenburg and Luxembourg on 2 of those days.

FLY HOME!

Look forward to comments and suggestions as to where to stay

well done crazy - IME getting the itinerary fixed is the worst bit.

it gets easier after this.

I haven't had a chance to comment until now. Bravo for trying such an ambitious trip with little ones, and congratulations for being able to.

The first 4 weeks sound like they are falling together well. The first week will give you all a chance to get settled in. A week in London and a week in Paris will give you a chance to see a lot. (I would perhaps give more than 6 nights in Paris, but that's just me.)

The 9 days you'll be travelling between Paris and Barcelona start to feel a little hectic because you're covering such long distances in between. But again, that's just me.

I've never been to Barcelona so I can't say, but it seems like 3 nights in Barcelona (after the first one being a long travel day from Sarlat) might seem like you only have 2 days in Barcelona, which might not seem like enough.

The next stay, you have Avignon. Has anyone suggested Arles as an alternative? A little smaller. Avignon (I admit I was only there a few hours en route to staying in Arles) is a bit hectic and it's a bigger city. Arles gives you the feeling of being in a Provencal town especially since you're only there 2 nights (which will feel like 1 day) since there is so much driving on arrival and departure.

After all that driving, I would probably combine Siena and Lucca into one stay (and stay in Siena or somewhere in Tuscany instead of Lucca) and stay put for a full week. (I missed if there was a specific reason you wanted to stay in Lucca.) I've gone there to visit friends... on like my 4th trip to Tuscany. I wouldn't put it up high on my list of places to go on a first trip to Italy.)

If it were me, at this point in the trip, I'd find a quaint tuscan village either right outside of Siena or--even better--on the Chianti highway, and RELAX. Get a place with a pool and explore during the day and STAY 7 nights. Don't split it between the 2 cities unless you have a compelling reason to sleep in Lucca. Enjoy the pace of Tuscany. You're going to need it to recharge after all that cross country driving. Watch beautiful Tuscan sunsets at night. Drink good wine. Explore villages. (I'd suggest staying in Vignamaggio or around Greve in Chianti.)

And wait, are you NOT going to Florence on this trip? (Perhaps best with the children, I suppose.) You can get the same flavor/feel I suppose by seeing Siena and the pace will be easier on the family.

Rome will be a huge shock to the senses after the pace of Tuscany (because it's such a big city), and I personally wouldn't spend a full week there, especially with small children. But again, that's just me.

I know you're trying to see it all, but the 8th week seems like you have 12 days in that week. 2+3+3+4. I've never been to that part of Europe but that sounds really like too much. But then again, you'll be so recharged after Italy maybe you'll have the stamina to visit all those cities. But I don't know if you'll enjoy it or get to see more than maybe 1 thing per city. I would probably try to edit those cities a little more.

And finally, did anyone yet point out that you're spending a lot of travel time going down to Rome, then driving back across italy and back up to Munich/Prague/Innsbruck?

I don't know when you're travelling and whether a week will make a difference for weather, but have you considered going up to Innsbruck/Munich/Prague etc right *after* Varenna. (I'd still consider editing a city or two there.)

Then finishing your trip by travelling down through Italy, with the week in Tuscany/Siena/Lucca and however many days you want in Rome. Then you fly out of Rome?

Good luck.

Hi Skatterfly, thanks for your response. The longo drive from Sarlat is going to be broken up with a stop off in Cassconne. We could do 2 nights in Sarlat with a night either here or toulouse to break up the long drive. We have done a drive this long and it was fine but not ideal. So we are only doing this the once.

<<<<Has anyone suggested Arles as an alternative?>>>> No and I will look into it. I have been to Avignon once and was only there for a few hours and I LOVED it but if Arles is like aviginon but smaller then that's perfect! Thanks

<<<<After all that driving, I would probably combine Siena and Lucca into one stay >>>>
We did think of that but we thought Lucca would allow us to have a day trip/boat trip to Cinque Terre. That was why we spilt it. We could still do a week but we figure after 4 days in Varenna we should be fine with the split. But we could do one place for the week and take the drive for the day trip. We have been to Florence 3 times . . I love it .. but we know it's big and we might do a train trip for the day but we don't want to stay there.

<<<<Rome will be a huge shock to the senses after the pace of Tuscany>>>>>> I know! We LOVE rome and have also been there 3 times! We were thinking of staying in Bracciano and then driving to the closest train station and driving in for day trips. Just so we could see the sites and throw the coin But we just arent too sure at this part.

<<<<<I know you're trying to see it all, but the 8th week seems like you have 12 days>>>>
This is the Week 8/9th week

The reason for the trip layout is because we are driving so Innsbruck and Munich are more stopovers then desired places to stay. Prague and Berlin hubby really wants to see and Frankfurt is where we fly out from. Thanks though for your suggestions.

There is a big festival in Avignon in July, I think it is a theater festival, which makes accommodations difficult. Arles and Avignon are not alike, they are different cities, except they are both in southern France. They don't have the same things in them at all, nor the same history (FWIW they aren't in the same French departement, either, Arles is in Bouches du Rhone and Avignon is in the Vaucluse). However, Arles is somewhat smaller in population and if you liked Avignon, you'd probably like Arles. I much prefer Avignon myself, but everyone has their feelings about this.

Thanks Christina! I will try our luck in Avignon . .since I come from a theatre background and if it all becomes too hard we will go to Arles. They don't look that fr apart I guess we could stay in Arles and drive to Avignon for a day trip.

A thing that you need to consider is distances and road conditions. I know that in WA you can do Perth to Kalgoorlie in a not too hard day. 600 km, make an early start and you are there for afternoon tea.

Europe is different. Unless you are on motorways, you’ll find that you can’t make such big distances. Getting through towns and navigation can be a hassle.

That last week is a bit painful. Could you do a discount airline from Florence to Prague instead of that long awful drive? I think that drive (or train ride) will be a lot for your children to take. It's very far!! Munich will be a huge disappoint after Italy I think. I see it's on the route but blech.

If you need to drive and can cut out Prague . . . Why not do a route like Milan, Lugano, Basel, Strasbourg and/ or one of those German castles to Frankfurt instead? Or I've heard Heidelberg is pretty. Or you could do Nuremberg and learn about the trials and do some history tours. I'm just speaking from experience - went to Munich from Italy and thought what on earth is this dreadful characterless place with bad food and no soul! When I was 20years old I loved Munich but I was younger and loved it for bars and clubbing, but if you're not clubbing then I don't think it's worth visiting. It's not cute for children either, unless you will bike everywhere with the kids in the bike baskets. Everyone bikes there.

I just think that sounds like an awful lot of traveling for one week for a 2 year old and 4 year old, and might be much more enjoyable to just fly to Prague.

Thanks Peter . . .and hpluss1 Hubby really wants to see Prague . .I am thinking the same as you. It's such a long way and is taking a good few travel days off us to see places we aren't really keen on. I have been to Munich and I did enjoy it but not enough to want to desperately goo back to it like Italy.

I am looking into some direct flights and then train it from prague to Berlin and Berlin to Frankfurt instead of driving. Just got to work out the costs etc.

Instead of staying in Munich with a 2 year old and a 4 year old, I suggest going to Legoland and staying there. Legoland is an hour and a half from Munich. Legoland has nice on site lodging consisting of little cottages. My son loved playing on the half dozen playscapes in the lodging area as much as he enjoyed the actual theme park. Lots of room for your kids to get out of their carseats and run around for a day or two.

padams,

I like your idea as there's no reason to go to the effort of getting in and out of Munich if it's more or less (for crazyfamily) a stop on the way. Legoland would be a treat for the kids.

GREAT IDEA ... Will look into that for sure!!!! Thanks!!!!

ok for london . .how does this look? I think the site is trusting.



New Row - http://lcpm.net/PropertyView.asp?property_id=679

What's your thoughts ?? Good location??? Look trusting???

well, i can't say anything about the trustworthiness of the site, but the apartment looks great and it's in an excellent position.

how's the price?

Hi annhig . .price is a little more then we wanted to spend but I think that's London and it is cheaper then what the travel agent can offer.

They want a 50% deposit and then 2 months before we arrive they want to pay the balance so I am nervous that we will turn up and find out we have been scammed etc.

They will allow us to pay with credit card which does give us insurance . .. I think but I would hate to turn up with 2 kids and no place to stay etc.

on a side note . .we have seen somewhere nice to stay in windsor but I can't find an email address to see if they have connecting doors to any rooms. It's

http://www.tripadvisor.com.au/Hotel_Review-g186419-d192493-Reviews-Oakley_Court_Hotel-Windsor_Windsor_and_Maidenhead_Berkshire_England.html

thoughts?

Thanks again, Claire

http://www.oakleycourtwindsor.com/

The hotel's website has lots of information plus how to contact.

The apartment looks great, excellent location. All I can suggest regarding legitimacy is to do as much searching as possible on the web to uncover any problems. You need to learn to dig, it took me 10 seconds to find the Oakley Court details.

Hi Cathinjoetown . .I found the info like you but no email address per say. I must admit by internet skills are limited. I have read some bad reviews about London Connections which makes me nervous but I have also read great reviews. I am thinking about posting a separate thread to see if anyone on the forum have used them. They are based in america.

ANyway thanks as always for your help

E-mail enquiries@essential-hotels.com

(for Oakley Hall)

Regarding the London flat, yes, to see if anyone has used them, try posting with Connections name in title.

Oh thanks cathinjoetown!!! You're a star!!!!

ok . . now onto the next bit of the trip . . .from barcelona to Varenna . . .We want to leave on the 8th and arrive on the 12th . .however if it is a must nothing else is booked as of yet from the 8th so I can be flexible.

I am thinking Avignon for 2 nights and SanRemo 2nights or Avignon for 3 nights and SanRemo for a night or somewhere else in the provance area for those 2/3night. Suggestions please

How keen are you to drive all the way? You could take the ferry to Genoa. See http://www2.gnv.it/en.html

ooohhh interesting! thanks for that!

I forget - aren't you going down to Rome? If you're interested in the ferry there's also one from Barcelona to Rome (Civitavecchia). That would save some backtracking.

ooohhh . .we could take the drive south of france with a hire company . . .go to Barcalona . .ferry to Rome . . but it means we would miss out seeing the south of France However, not sure how much we would see in a few days!

WHat are your thoughts about here for a week?

http://www.parkervillas.com/italy/umbria/the-dowry-apartment-isadora/4/photo?img_id=119426&date=62013

Wow, lots of suggestions! I'll just make one....check out airbnb.com for short term apartment rentals around the world. Thinking your family might appreciate having the feel of a home rather than a hotel room. Ok I lied, two suggestions....we have gone back for years to San leonino in castelina in chianti...great old Tuscan farm house....reasonable and great for day tripping, including to Florence, very easy to get around from here. The meals are fantastic too! Have a great trip!

Oh, forgot to mention, try googling mileage ie; mileage for city to city for all of your destinations, it will give you a more accurate mileage and driving times....

Wow thanks for that! Don't suppose you have a link for the Tuscan farmhouse???

You can take the car on the ferry. If you want to do the south of France you could do it after Italy, and go through Switzerland instead of Austria to get to Germany.

ok basic update is now we plan on taking 8 days to get from Barcelona to Varrena . . .thinking 4 days Avignon . . 4 days somewhere else on the way? Then we will spend 5 days Varrena . .but this will include our day trip to Milan . . then we will spend one week in a villa near Florence ( and have our day trip to Rome) Then go to Varona for 3 days then onto Innsbruck.

Hopefully this sounds better and less rushed

ooohhh ...that does sound good!!! Ok . .tomorrow I will look at the cost of the ferry from Barcelona to Rome or Geona . . .and then make our way up and across. as I said I haven't booked anything from Barcelona So from 8th of July to 10th Aug we are flexible but will have the car Thanks everyone for staying with me and helping me. I feel like we are getting somewhere

crazy - don't know if you've got details of the website which gives details of virtually all european ferries, but if not, here it is:

http://www.directferries.co.uk/

wow ann! THANK YOU!!! I didn't have that!

Ok latest possible changes that can still be changed due to nothing being booked!

8th July - 3nights Avignon

then

2 Nights in Saint Raph

1 night in San remo

4 nights Varenna

1 week - villa near Florance

2 nights Varona

1 night innsbruck

2 night Munich

3 night Prague

3/4 night Berlin
3-4 night Frankfurt - day trip to offenburg and Luxembourg during this stay

OK THOUGHTS???

crazy - I really don't like the "one night stands". [also the spelling is a bit confusing - where is St. Raph? - and do you mean Verona? Florence?]

according to google maps, Avignon to Sanremo is 315 kms/3 hours drive, so doable in a day, and Sanremo to Varenno [assuming thats's the spelling and you're talking about the place in the province of Lecco north of Milan - see why the spelling is important] is another 3 1/2 hours.

so I don't understand why you are splitting the journey into 3 bits instead of 2 at this point.

also, after Florence, you have 2 -1 - 2 - but it's only 4-5 hours from Verona to munich, so unless you desperately want a night in Innsbruck, why are you stopping there?

sorry to disrupt your plans, but you DID ask!

Hi Ann! Oh my spelling is shocking as the mac auto corrects everything! It drives me nuts!!!

Saint Raphael is in France . . .our friends got engaged there so we thought it would be nice to go there but it could be a day trip

SO I thought Avignon to San Remo and then onto Varenna (Lake Como) would be better then heading straight to Varenna . .what do you think?

I thought the drive from Verona to Munich was longer but hey we can so do a 4/5 hr trip with a lunch stop somewhere

Thanks ann for helping me through this trip! I know it is going to be amazing because you have ALL helped me sooo very much!

I really am thankful!!!

You should be able to turn auto correct off. It was one of the first things I did when I got an iPad!

gosh I wonder where! I have decided the easiest thing to do is to go back to windows

crazy - I'm a PC aficionado from way back and the only Apple product I have is the iPad, so I can't help with the MAC. Aside from a search with "auto correct off" and the name of your operating system, I'd start here:
https://discussions.apple.com/index.jspa

crazy - do check the driving times yourself -and with correct spellings! - and add on at least another 50% for traffic hold-ups etc etc.

i'm not saying don't stop between Avignon and Varenna, but I didn't understand why you were stopping at Sanremo AND Saint Raphael. ditto why Innsbruck on the way to Munich, unless there was a special reason.

at the risk of repeating myself, I think that with kids longer stops with longer drives in between are a better idea than moving more often with short drives, because the kids seem to like settling in somewhere for a few days rather than moving on all the time.

Europe is easy to travel also with baby/small kid...

we sometimes start at 4 in the morning with the car, after 5h driving baby wake up and can enjoy the place where we arrived.

https://plus.google.com/photos/105751249687587620123/albums


Peter

Testing my understanding. This is the latest?
..................................................................
Ok latest possible changes that can still be changed due to nothing being booked!
8th July - 3nights Avignon
then
2 Nights in Saint Raph
1 night in San remo
4 nights Varenna
1 week - villa near Florance
2 nights Varona
1 night innsbruck
2 night Munich
3 night Prague
3/4 night Berlin
3-4 night Frankfurt - day trip to offenburg and Luxembourg during this stay

OK THOUGHTS???
.............................................................

Instead of 3 Avignon I would stay 3 in St Remy. I have stayed at a hotel within the walls of Avignon and it was OK, but a lot of urban blight in the surrounding area. It was not that convenient for full or half day trips to other areas.

Then If I was staying in St. Remy choose from for visits:
Pont du Gard
les Baux
Arles
Avignon-a short visit to see the old town, popes palace, park,
and the nursery rhyme bridge
L'Isle-sur-la-Sorgue (only if on Sunday market day)
Lavender fields near Sault(north from St Saturin-les-Apt) if in season(July).
Luberon Hill towns Gordes and Roussillon.
Petit Luberon towns Oppede-le-Vieux,Menerbes,LaCoste,Bonnieux

Your order of stops Varenna-Tuscany Villa-Verona could be improved on, I propose a modification:
Avignon-X-Y-Tuscany-Varenna
Also since most villas/agriturismos in Tuscany rent from Saturday to Saturday, you must get to Tuscany in 2 days(-X-Y-)
From St Remy (or Avignon if you must) stop in Saint Raphael for a coffee and then proceed on to 1 night in St-Paul-de-Vence or Menton in France, or to Italy( Sanremo is a little has been for me).
The second night I would stop in Pisa and then on to your Tuscan Villa.
So as an example:
St Remy (3)
St-Paul (1)
Pisa(1)
Tuscany (7)
(Varenna) (4)
Then on to your itinerary Verona, Innsbruck, etc.

For Tuscany I have stayed in the north, Chianti-the area between Florence and Siena and the area south of Siena near Pienza. I like the area near Pienza the best. When I was there I made day trips To Montalcino, Montepulciano,Sant'Antimo, Siena, Umbria-Assisi and Perugia to name a few. You could also do a day trip to Rome by train. Florence is also possible.

I am planning another trip and will probably stay here: Agriturismo Cretaiole
http://www.cretaiole.it/index.en.php
http://www.cretaiole.it/galleria.en.php?gal=video_4#galleria

Some backups:
http://www.lafonte.toscana.it/en/appartamenti/
http://www.fontebertusi.it/eng/holiday-facilities-tuscany-sienna-val-d-orcia.asp
http://www.agriturismocerreto.com/descrizione-ing.htm

dugi - they look like great suggestions. I've never been to St Remy but on the back of those suggestions, it looks like one could spend a great fortnight there.

thanks for all the ideas.

WOW!!! Looks great dugi!!! Will def take that onto consideration and make those possible changes! Thank you!!!

This is the first time I've seen this post so don't know all the prior considerations but if Prague is a must do for your husband, have you considered Vienna instead of some of the German cities? I only say this because we live in UK and one of our most fun trips with our 2 and 4 year old is to Vienna with days spent at the Prater where our kids and us LOVED all the old time amusement rides and renting bikes (we did the one where they sat in front and mom/dad pedaled in the back) and riding the train, etc etc. Anyway, just a thought!

ooohhh we have been to vienna 10 years ago so as much as this sounds like fun I think lego land in Munich might just beat it but thanks for your suggestion!