KAM

While browsing the bookstore lastnight (I leave in 30 days!!) I read a Venice guidebook that says restaurants charge a 19% service charge AND a 15% VAT charge, is this correct? And I don't remember the book, wasn't really one I was interested in. <BR><BR>Is the 19% the 'cover charge'(coberto or coperto) I keep hearing about? Do they really add 34% to your meal? It sounds awefully high, does anyone know if this is true? <BR><BR>Please and thanks in advance!

janis

Not far out of line. Service (the tip) is generally between 12 and 20% and VAT is 15% (Vat is actually higher in some countries)

Capo

KAM, an additional note: I don't think the coperto is ever a percentage. Rather, it's a flat amount, usually from 1 to, I think, about a max of 3 euros per person.

KAM

Thanks, I guess I was wondering if the surcharge was the same as a tip or a cover charge, as I had always heard that you still add tip onto the bill...does this still hold? <BR><BR>

xxx

ttt

kay

Don't worry what the VAT or service charge is because they are included in the price on the menu. Coperto should be clearly stated separately. Service included supposedly means that waitstaff are paid a decent wage and the tip you leave (if you choose to) is for good service, unlike in the US where waitstaff can legally be paid less than minimum wage and depend on tips for their livelihood.

Rex

I think that what the book means is that the prices listed on the menu ALREADY include these. Thus when a price is listed as 13,40 euro you can mentally think that the restaurant would have been charging you 10,00 euro and the full price is listed - - typically with "Services and taxes included" printed somewhere on the bottom of the menu.<BR><BR>This seems much more honest to me than the tip-based system more common in America. I hate tips (which is not the same as saying that I refuse to tip, appropriately). More than anything, it conveys to me an attitude of laziness on the part of management - - it says "I have no clue how much to compensate this person; it is beneath me to evaluate performance or set compensation, so I expect you, my customer, to do it for me".<BR><BR>In Europe, I pay for most meals by credit card. I do not add a tip to the bill. When I am in a good mood or when the service has seemed quite nice, I use a small bill (one euro seems appropriate), I hand it directly to the server, and I say thank you. And this has always been well received.<BR><BR>Of course, it remains an oddity of the restaurant business. It would not occur to me to do this to a flight attendant, someone at the car rental counter, a nurse or my tax preparer. All in the personal service business.<BR><BR>Best wishes,<BR><BR>Rex<BR>

Jeff W

I was in Venice last May--You don't have to leave a tip at all. As the other posters have stated, service is included in the bill. The Coperto is a slight extra charge that some restaurants add for sitting in different areas of the restaurant--in Venice for instance if you sat outside the coperto was higher than if you sat inside.

NobodyImportant

Yes, about a third of what is billed goes to various taxes and service charges that the owner shares with staff. Some owners first deduct costs like napkins and dishwashing. No matter what we tourists think, that's how they do it there. If you feel like it, leave the waiter the equivalent of an extra dollar. Whether you do or don't, don't expect different treatment. We have tipped extra without thanks and we have been thanked when we didn't tip.

brownie

Well ... I think we've had a slightly different experience in Italy. Venice was our first stop and upon finishing a light meal we shocked to find that the bill had doubled. It was basically because all these additionaly charges weren't included in the price of the meal. We ended up grabbing the closest waiter for an explanation.<BR><BR>Also, we never got our change back (which wasn't very much) as the waiter took it as tip. <BR><BR>We were wary of this after .. and learnt to read the menus properly. It usually states on the menu outside the restaurant - what charges are included and what aren't. We found that further south, it became more and more frequent that everything was included and restaurants not charging "cover charge".<BR><BR>This was a few years ago.. so may be things have changed with the Euro.<BR><BR>

Tom

I leave for Italy in the morning and am now completely lost just when I thought I understood the process - I've got to get off this board!

Andre

KAM and Tom,<BR><BR>Taxes & tip ARE included in the menu prices. All you need to add is the fixed "coperto" charge per person (indicated separately on the menu). Do NOT accept any additional charges and always request a receipt.<BR><BR>"Brownie", I'm sorry but you got ripped off in Venice!<BR><BR>If I feel service has been particularly deserving, I leave an extra 3-5% in cash, especially if I'm planning a repeat visit<BR><BR>Andre

Tom

Andre - Thanks for the clear and concise explanation. That's what I thought I understood before, but then got confused reading all these emails.

Carmen

Service and VAT are usually included. In fact, the service charge is way different from the American one because waiters will receive the same amount of money in their paychecks, no matter how many people they have served or how much money these served clients spent.<BR>

Harriette

Andre--Are you saying that when we get the bill and pay by credit card WE have to add the coperto charge to the total? Or is it already on the bill. Again I am more confused than before .

Lori

We just got back from Italy and in Venice many, many restaurants add a 12-15% "service charge" to the total bill. At the restaurant Acciughetti we had a waiter who handed us the bill with the 12% added and said "without tip for the waiter." As we looked, confused, at the bill, he repeated that again and then mumbled something about the service charge being a tax. We felt pressured to leave a tip and frankly that experience almost ruined the rest of the day for me (I admit, I can be obsessive). In other places in Italy a service charge was sometimes added, sometimes listed on the menu as included, but in almost all places we felt pressured to tip and confused about whether we should. At Insalata Rica (sp?) in Rome, the waiter added up the bill on the paper table cloth and even though service was included, he told us it wasn't, when I asked him. He was friendly though and we tipped. He then gave us "free" lemoncello, so we do not feel too ripped off. <BR>Even though I knew how restaurant bills are supposed to work in Italy, my husband, who spent 10 years as a part- time waiter, wanted to tip if service had been okay and I know we overtipped. When service was friendly and the bill was clear, I didn't object. But most times the bills were not clear at all (one waiter in Rome just showed us a total on a calculator)and my dining memories in Italy are not my favorite (except at Il Caminetto in Florence.) I did not want to be an over bearing American tourist like some we saw who complained about and questioned everything. We wanted to go with the flow but then again, maybe they were smarter than we were.

xxx

Any more comments?

Sherry

Every bill we received except one in Rome listed a coperto charge separately on the bill.<BR>The charge ranged from .55Euro in Voltera, to mostly 3.00 or 4.00 Euros(for two) everywhere else except one restaurant in Rome where we did not see any charge listed. We also did not have any bread on the table.<BR>So we just assumed it was a bread charge acting like a service charge. We never actually ordered bread with any meal and were asked if we wanted it, it just appeared. Except then we were confused because we had pizza in Chianti one night and there was that pesky charge again. Also a 10% service charge was listed.<BR>And the coperto never actually added up to an actual percentage of the bill.<BR>We do not speak Italian, and it was just beyond me to try to get someone to explain.<BR>I just know that all of the added charges could make quite a bit of difference in the bill. Two $4.50 pizzas and two very small bottles of water ended up being almost $20. <BR>We had very good service, so then you wonder if the waiter really does get any cut.<BR>

elaine

People clearly have different opinions on this subject.<BR>For opinions from the "experts":<BR>http://www.oxygen.com/pureoxygen/fea..._20010910.html (convert the suggested tips from $$ to the currency of the place you're going to) www.fodors.com (click on tipping guides) http://www.luxurytravel.com/cityguid...etiquette.html www.goaheadvacations.com/countries/italy.asp<BR><BR>or check your guidebook