Yeah, I see you like to move around. Geneve, Lausanne, then Montreux? You can easily get to any of these places upon landing, and you can visit other places using frequent trains. Near Neuchatel is a charming town and a lake of Murten. I think you realized that you are spending several days in Geneve and Zurich which is probably keep you from including other hard to drop destinations. The way I see this type of trade-off is that Geneve and Zurich are trivial to include in future trips, but not so with others. In this case, I prioritize harder to visit places first, and usually I end up visiting gateway cities like Geneve or Zurich without even trying in the future.

Just a note on the train travel part - as you are moving around a lot I think a one-month Swiss Pass is a no-brainer - as said in other thread covers nearly every conveyance you will be taking - lake boats - do not miss taking a lake boat ride on Lake Lucerne, Lake Geneva or Lake Lugano or Thun or Brienz, etc. Passes also good on city trams, buses - practically everything that moves in Switzerland.

Again great sources for planning the rail part and about passes check out these superb sites - www.swisstravelsystem.com (has links to Glacier Express site and other specialty train sites like the Bernina Express); www.sbb.ch - Swiss Railways official site for schedules and fares to compare with the pass (key point of pass is you can just hop on virtually any train, postal bus, lake boat, etc. And I always find myself using the pass actually more than I planned on); http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/id3.html; and www.ricksteves.com.

<Day 20: Go to Bern, making sure to take a train that goes through Samedan and Thusis so I can see the Albula Pass, etc. (1st of 2 nights in Bern)>

If you go from St Moritz there is no way to go by rail other than via the Albula Pass/Loops - the only other way out would be to take the Maloja Pass bus to Lugano and take a train to Zurich (change there for Bern).

(I know it would be VERY easy to skip an overnight in Lausanne! At least for now, though, I want to spend a night there, even if it means an unnecessary relocation. You have my permission to call my crazy.)>

No not crazy - I too like to relocate and spend the whole day and night in a town rather than day tripping in - though for utilitarian reasons I often do that - say base in Vevey for the whole time - but I understand your desire and Lausanne is a very very nice town - most folks prefer smaller more old-worldish Montreux or Vevey but you will be there too.
Try to walk along the lake to the Chateau Chillon! Or take a boat there - nice to approach it from the water, this castle built on the water!

➢ greg

Thanks for commenting!

I definitely hear your point about Geneva and Zurich – they are, indeed, cities that I might end up in again in the future, since they have major transportation hubs. Something to think about!


➢ PalenQ

I will most certainly and without question get a Swiss Pass and I will enjoy the tremendous freedom it gives me to take multiple forms of transportation and to enter museums and other places without reaching into my wallet. I promise! Thanks for making sure I don’t miss all the opportunities it presents.

I’m still debating which stretches I’ll do by boat rather than train, but at the very least, I do plan to get out onto the water in multiple locations.

Thanks for confirming my understanding of the trains through the Albula Pass – I want to make absolutely sure to ride that stretch of track!

To visit Chateau de Chillon, I’m looking forward to going one way by boat and one way by foot. Is there an order you recommend? Otherwise, I’ll choose once I’m there and see what the weather and light are like.

Day 14 involves a lot of travel on train/bus: almost 9 hours. According to the schedules on www.sbb.ch you'll take a regional train from Tirano to Pontresina (not the Express, but that's fine) and change there for the train to Zernez, where you change for the bus to Müstair.

I would pick Pontresina, not Zuoz as base for the Upper Engadine - more centrally located for excursions.

You could still do a day trip to St. Gallen or Appenzell from Zürich on Day 28 or so e.g.

Sounds better than your first itinerary.

To visit Chateau de Chillon, I’m looking forward to going one way by boat and one way by foot. Is there an order you recommend?>

can't see how it could matter - myself I would walk out with the spector of the famous castle of Lord Byron links anticipatorily looming in the distance - a goal. But really makes little difference.

➢ ingo

OMG, after all the information that you and PalenQ so patiently and kindly shared with me about the Bernina Express, did I still get it wrong? SO sorry!

So here’s what I’ve come to believe so far. I do hope you’ll continue to help me understand!

a) When I checked the Rhaetian Railway site for the Bernina Express, I saw an option from Lugano (10:00) to Tirano and then on to Samedan (arriving at 16:24). Switching to the sbb web site, I saw a way to get from Samedan (17:14) to Mustair (19:20). That’s the 9.5 hour trip I was considering because I thought it might be most scenic AND because I thought it would include trains (and/or buses) with panoramic windows on the most scenic stretch(es). It would obviously be a very long travel day, but I figured I’d rather have a very, very long trip with easily seen breathtaking scenery than a very long (if somewhat shorter) trip without it. And even with this longest route, I should still get to Mustair before sunset and in time to check in and have a decent meal.

b) Using the sbb web site, I saw an option from Lugano to Mustair in just over 6 hours (e.g., leaving at 11:12 and arriving at 17:20). When I looked at the routing information for that train, my impression was that it does not go throught the Bernina Pass, and so would not be as scenic as the other options I identifed, but I could easily be mistaken (about either the route or the merits of the scenery).

c) And on that same sbb web site, when I added either Tirano or Poschiavo, I saw an option that would take about 8.5 hours (leaving Lugano at 10:00 and arriving in Mustair at 18:20), so it should include the atretch from Tirano to Pontresina, which I’ve read (perhaps in error), is considered particularly scenic. I think this train would use more-or-less the same track as that identified under route (a), but without the option of panoramic windows.

d) There’s another option routed through Tirano that appears to go through Milan. It takes more time than any of the agove – about 9’45”, so I’m not considering it.

So, if I now understand correctly, I can choose to make this leg of my trip as quickly as I can (option b) or as scenically as I can (option a) or save a bit of time (about an hour) for a bit more limited opportunity to see the scenery (no panoramic windows – option c). Is that right?

To be honest, an extra hour for better views doesn’t seem unreasonable to me, particularly if I’m already committed to at least 8.5 hours in transit AND will still be able to reach my destination before sunset and in time for dinner. On the other hand, I wouldn’t want to spend an hour in the confinement of transportation unnecessarily. In early June, how much difference might the panoramic windows make? Are there other issues I should take into consideration?


• I would pick Pontresina, not Zuoz as base for the Upper Engadine

Good to hear, especially because I haven’t yet found suitable accommodations in Zuoz, but did find a place in Pontresina – the Hotel Rosatsch. Do you know it?

Is Pontresina one of the places where one can ensure that one’s arrival by train is coordinated with a bus if one knows exactly what to specify when consulting the sbb web site (like Guarda, where one would—I think, if I read your notes correctly—need to specify “Guard cumün”)? Is the “cumün” the operative word elsewhere in Switzerland?
(I’m so glad I saw that comment of yours about Guarda!)

(BTW, I’ve been finding your photographs and commentaries on various places throughout Switzerland both helpful and inspiring. Thanks so much for directing me to your web pages!)


• You could still do a day trip to St. Gallen or Appenzell from Zürich on Day 28 or so

Great idea! At first glance, it seems like I might even be able to combine St. Gallen with Winterthur in a single day trip from Zurich – that might work out very well for me!


• Sounds better than your first itinerary.

I know my first itinerary was pretty bad, but I take this remark as a good sign! You’ve been a tremendous source of much appreciated information. ☺ ☺


➢ PalenQ

Thanks for confirming that I can visit the Chateau de Chillon by foot or boat in either order. I suspected as much, but wanted to confirm – you never know when it makes a difference!

BTW, I hope that you (and Ingo and others) will tell me if I should seek a particular side (left or right) of the various trains, buses, and boats I’ll be taking. I’m not a betting person, but if I were, I’d bet that you have paid attention to this kind of detail in your many train journeys through Europe!

And to call on some of that knowledge….
• Boat or train from Geneva to Lausanne?
• Boat or train from Lausanne to Vevey/Montreux? I’m thinking boat, so I can see the Lavaux wine terraces from the water…

Thanks again!

Thanks for the kind words, kja.

You're totally right about the options to get from Lugano to Müstair. What I meant is that right after your arrival in Tirano a regional train (without panoramic windows) runs to Pontresina. I thought you would not want to spend more time than necessary in Tirano.

(Side note: To explore the town - centor storico - you just follow the signs, it's nothing special IMO, just typical Italian ambience with a church or two, definitely not enough time to visit the museum in the palazzo. And the walk to the other important sight in Tirano - pilgrim church Basilica Madonna di Tirano - takes at least 15 minutes one way. You'll see its exterior from the train anyway.)

On the other hand, you could always have lunch in Tirano right on the small square by the train station - did that myself and it was ok. Pizza, local red wine, water, coffee. Inexpensive.

I personally favour the traditional regional trains over the Express train with panoramic windows - you can open these windows and take better photos (no reflexions). Also, if it is a sunny and hot day the sun may actually be too much in the panoramic cars (despite A/C). So, I would choose option c). Of course, this would also mean you have to wait between trains another 50 minutes in Samedan.

The regional train - option c) - takes the absolute same route that the Express train - option a) - does. Same views.

I forgot the question about the hotel and transfer, sorry.

Hotel Rosatsch is a very good choice. Haven't been there lately, but only heard good things. Bathrooms may be a little outdated, though, but clean. Ask for an upgrade if you're not happy with your room - it's shoulder season and this should be no problem.

As for transfer - the train station is located below the village. Bus transfer is not as well timed as from Guarda station to Guarda cumün. BUT - Hotel Rosatsch and most others offer free mini bus/van transfer from/to the train station. Just call ahead (from Lugano, I'd say) and tell them when you'll arrive. The closest bus stop to Hotel Rosatsch is "Pontresina, Rondo" (tourist office), the Rosatsch is a stone's throw up the main street.

And the walk to the other important sight in Tirano - pilgrim church Basilica Madonna di Tirano - takes at least 15 minutes one way. You'll see its exterior from the train anyway.)>

and if you do want to see it and can wheel your luggage around then walk to it and there is a small train station or platform near it to board the regional trains up and over the Bernina Pass.

Boat or train from Geneva to Lausanne?

well that I think is a long long boat ride and scenery about the same after a while - I'd take the train unless I had loads of time - on a nice sunny day these boats can be so so relaxing however.

Boat or train from Lausanne to Vevey/Montreux? I’m thinking boat, so I can see the Lavaux wine terraces from the water…>

Yes boat would be sweet as it is a short ride and you reason for seeing the shore is a good one. A third way between Lausanne and Vevey and I think Montreux is via trolley bus (Swiss Passes valid on them like anything else that maoves in Switzerland).

As for which side of trains to sit on one line that pops up is the Bernina Pass rail line where most of the awesome scenery is on the west side of the tracks - the glaciers - Alpine lakes, etc.

If you take the fancy official Bernina Express you will probably be stuck in one seat on a typically full or fairly full train that caters a lot to tour groups - especially Germans IME.

Thus I prefer to take the hourly or so local trains that go over the same rails with yes the same exact scenery as these are rarely full and often half empty so I can jiggle from one side to the other as scenery dictates.

I’m still debating which stretches I’ll do by boat rather than train, but at the very least, I do plan to get out onto the water in multiple locations.>

The nice thing about Swiss lake boats is that nearly every dock is it seems close to a train or bus station - postal buses usually running where trains do not - postal buses fan out from train stations - like at Pontresina discussed above. So if you tire of the boat or need to pick up speed it is easy to change plans en route, like say from Geneva to Lausanne.

We really enjoyed our stay in Pontresina and stayed at La Collina. They have another less expensive lodging on the property, Soldanella . Two of our party were celebrating birthdays and they had a special way of singing the birthday song. The town is quaint with the painted stucco buildings. We had our best meal in Switzerland at the Hotel Kronenhof's Stube. We also thought the Thai restaurant at La Collina was exceptional; it was packed the night we dined there so reservations are a good idea.

I, for one, love Lausanne and don't understand why it is overlooked so often. The flowers along the lake are beautiful and the old city up the hill is scenic too. I'm so glad you're going there and ---- have a wonderful trip. You can't go wrong in Switzerland (plus I envy you)!

Such a wealth of helpful information! I do love Fodor's forums.

➢ Ingo

A 50-minute stop in Samedan doesn’t sound so bad. I’m sure I’ll be ready to get into the fresh air by then, and from what I can tell, it has a left-luggage office. And that means that if the trains are on time and the weather is decent, I might even be able to walk around unencumbered for 20 minutes or so and still have plenty of time to check and reclaim my suitcase and find my way to the right place for my train to Mustair.

Thanks for letting me know which stop to take for the Hotel Rosatsch, sharing what you know of the hotel, and mentioning the hotel’s minibus/van option – I will definitely check into that, in Pontresina and elsewhere!

➢ Ingo and
➢ PalenQ

You each provide compelling arguments against the Bernina Express and for the regional trains along the same lines. I am convinced! I will take the regional trains! (And I really appreciate the patience with which you have walked me through my options.) Once I get to Tirano, I will take the next regional train to Samedan.

➢ PalenQ

With your help, I now have a plan for transportation in the area around Lake Geneva:
• Train from Geneva to Lausanne;
• Before leaving Lausanne, use the train and/or trolley for a short visit to the wine terraces, including (if time permits) walking through the terraces a bit;
• Boat from Lausanne to Vevey/Montreux;
• Walk to the Chateau de Chillon and return by boat (or vice versa, if the weather is not auspicious for walking there).
Sounds wonderful!

I will plan to seek a seat to the west side while riding the regional trains along the Bernina Pass rails.

And I will savor the freedom my Swiss Pass gives me to travel by train or boat or whatever whenever – quite a luxury!

One last thing – thanks so much for the bounces! They can sometimes widen the net quite a bit.

➢ HappyTrvlr

Thanks so much for the Pontresina recommendations! I will definitely check these places out. Were there any dishes at the Hotel Kronenhof’s Stube that you particularly enjoyed?

➢ catcrazyaf

I’m glad to hear your enthusiastic praise for Lausanne - thanks for sharing it! Are there any restaurants there that you would urge me to consider? I do feel very fortunate - as you say, I really can't go wrong with a trip to Switzerland!

P.S. I didn’t mean to be the cause of envy and hope that green is one of your better colors.

Bring LOTS of money as it is ridiculously expensive!The airline that I work for flies there and although the crews love Switzerland the trips go very junior as we find that we go through money like crazy.Things like a brat and beer in Zurich cost around $18 USD?

Yes bring everything you can in from outside Switzerland to avoid sticker shock on things like shampoo, aspirins, toiletires, etc.

Before leaving Lausanne, use the train and/or trolley for a short visit to the wine terraces, including (if time permits) walking through the terraces a bit;>

There are similar wine terraces above Montreux and I have walked up and down thru them - a train also goes up to a station on top of the cliff and you can walk down - this is part of the Golden Pass train route that you may want to take if going east towards the Interlaken/Bern areas - one of Switzerland's legendary specialty scenic trains.

➢ Dutyfree and
➢ PalenQ

The costs are definitely on the daunting side. As someone who has always traveled closer to the budget end than not, I’ve found it a bit unsettling at moments. But at least I knew that Switzerland would be expensive when I began planning, and for better or worse, I made the decision to go despite the expense.

I think my biggest challenge when it comes to costs will be dinners: I love to relax over an evening meal, and I love to have a few glasses of wine with said meal, and I love to eat well-prepared variants of regional cuisines made with local ingredients, and I prefer to do so in a pleasant setting, … – and all of that typically means a meal that might be a bit more expensive than is otherwise available. But not always! And I do plan to splurge for dinner at least a few times. So any suggestions anyone has will be much appreciated.

➢ PalenQ

More welcome info!

Is the cliff above Montreux the Roches-de-Naye? I definitely plan to visit that spot – the views sound magnificent! I hadn’t considered walking down. Can you tell me more about that--how long it would likely take, how easy/hard, etc.?

When I leave Montreux, I’ll be heading to Gruyeres, but had planned go through Gstaad “en route” (I know its actually out of the way) just for the scenery. (I believe I got that idea from you!) That is the Golden Pass train route, isn’t it? Do you recommend a particular side of the train for the trip from Montreux to Gstaad? Or from Gstaad to Gruyeres?

I just checked into options for stopping at Roches-de-Naye as part of that trip, but if I’m reading the SBB site correctly, trains from Montreux to Gstaad don’t stop at Roches-de-Naye, so I’ll probably visit it separately after visiting the Chateau de Chillon. But maybe you mean a different cliff?

kja - yes, I love the color green! You don't even want to know how long ago I was in Lausanne - just after my college years, about 1968. That tells you what an impression it made on me. Every so often I play on the internet and "plan" a revisit there. So that's what I did for several hours again last nite - difficult to find an apartment there (I would base in Lausanne for a couple of weeks and wander and day-trip from there). I WILL get there again one day. So obviously, I have no restaurant suggestions for you but I just have to say that the beauty of the area and the city itself still makes my heart smile. I do wish you the very best trip. Every place I have been in Switzerland has been gorgeous and I'll try to restrain my envy. By the way, there is a poster on Tripadvisor named swandav (I think) who seems to be a Swiss expert and seems like she must have lived in Lausanne or Lac Lamen area - she's a wealth of helpful information. Go over there and ask a question or two. I'll be looking forward to hearing your adventures.

P.S. Just an additional thought!!!! Should I pack my suitcase and join you? (Written in jest).

➢ catcrazyaf

I hope you return to Lausanne some day and that you enjoy the moments you spend thinking of doing so. In the meantime, you are welcome to travel with me vicariously, and I promise to raise a glass of wine to you while in Lausanne. (Your feet probably won’t be hurting as much at that moment as mine!)

BTW, swandav is also a Fodorite. I was pleased that she offered some comments on the first draft of these plans. So many people have offered such helpful input!

Is the cliff above Montreux the Roches-de-Naye? I definitely plan to visit that spot – the views sound magnificent! I hadn’t considered walking down. Can you tell me more about that--how long it would likely take, how easy/hard, etc.?>

Not the same rail route I am referring to - I believe the Rochers-de-Naye train runs a lot in tunnels, perhaps under the vineyards - the line I am talking about is the one that goes to Gstaad - the Golden Pass line - from Montreux you can take local trains up to a station right above the top of the vineyards and waltz back down to Montreux - lovely Lake Geneva if full view the whole zigzagging and stepped way down.

Not sure what Rochers-de-Naye trains shows you as I have not taken it but from that summit it could be a seriously hike down - don't know!

Hi all,

Came back here to see what progress you've been making on your plans. Looks like you have some good ideas going!! Some thoughts --

It takes an hour for the train to reach Rochers-de-Naye from Montreux, so the walk back downhill would take about 4-5 hours, at least, I think. There are lots of hikes you can take starting from R-d-N, if you think you have the time for that.

To go to the Rochers-de-Naye, you take a cogwheel train up to Caux and then to R-de-N. It is a different route entirely to go on the Golden Pass line -- that goes via Les Avants. You can see this easily using google maps.

Yes, the trip to Gstaad and Gruyeres is on the Golden Pass route, one of the two best scenic routes in Switzerland imo. You change at Montbovon to get to/from Gruyeres. It's clear on the Swiss rail site. There are no luggage lockers at Gruyeres or at Montbovon, so you may have to ship your cases at that point. Or, there is a coat cloak room at the cheese demonstration building next to the train station, and you could ask if you can leave your bag/s there (but it's not secure).

The scenery is better walking from Montreux toward Chillon rather than the reverse; as you go towards Chillon, your views will be all lake and mountain and countryside. The scenery as you walk toward Montreux is urban, as you walk toward the built-up town. So, I would definitely plan to walk TO Chillon.

catcrazy -- hi!! What a small world. Wanna know something?? I was in Montreux in 1968 (but I was only 13 . . ). I remember clearly the Jazz Fest in 1968. Bizarre, eh? Yes, it leaves a **huge** impression. I was there in boarding school, and because of that I now go back practically every year for two weeks. I always go in the fall to see the changing leaves. If you do make it back, and it's in the fall, definitely get in touch.

Have fun, y'all!

s

You won't have enough time to hike down from Rochers-de-Naye. It's a 1,600 m elevation difference, takes about 4 hours, I'd say. And it's not worth the effort.

The train stop PalenQ refers to is probably Chernex, maybe Les Avants - but the latter is already relatively high up above the vineyards. A nice start for a hike down would be Caux or Glion, both stops on the train route up to Rochers-de-Naye.

I found the vineyards above Vevey more attractive for walks. An excellent viewpoint is Les Pleiades, accessible by train from Vevey. One stop along that route is Blonay, from there start nice walks down through the vineyards. Or take the funicular from Vevey up to Mont Pèlerin. The middle station Chardonne is also a good place to start a walk through the vineyards.

Great minds think along, swandav

Oh, dear. I should have realized that the cliff PalenQ mentioned was not the Rochers-de-Naye! My mistake. Many thanks to all of you for clarifying and for confirming that the walk from R-d-N would take too long for my purposes.

It seems that I’ll have a number of delightful options for pleasant downhill vineyard walks that I can choose on the fly, given the weather and the amount of time I devote to other priorities. I sincerely appreciate all the suggestions!


➢ PalenQ

Now that I have a better idea of what you meant, I can see why you recommended it! Thanks so much for mentioning it … and for putting up with my confusion.


➢ swandav

Thanks for checking back in! It’s reassuring to hear that you see some good ideas in my current plan. I’ve been the beneficiary of some truly wonderful advice from you and so many others, and I think my plan is much better (and getting better each day) as a result.

I plan on staying overnight in Gruyeres, so won’t need to worry about storing my suitcase. I appreciate that you made sure I was aware of the constraints and my options.

“…the Golden Pass route, one of the two best scenic routes in Switzerland imo” – May I ask what you consider to be the other most scenic route?

Rain or shine, I WILL walk TO the Chateau de Chillon rather than from it -- thanks!


➢ ingo

Thanks for the suggestions for walking through the vineyards above Vevey! I had been considering walks a bit further west, and will now plan to ensure that I begin my travels with information about multiple options so I can play it by ear.

Hi again,

The other scenic route that is among the best is the Bernina Express, particularly that portion from Pontresina to Poschiavo, which it appears you'll be taking on day 14.

Some other good walks through the vineyards are --

Chexbres to Rivaz (about 30 minutes). Take the train to Chexbres (change in Vevey), then just walk downhill until you get to the lake. Rivaz has a wonderful restaurant across the street from the lake called the Auberge du Rivaz. Then either take the train back or take the ferry back.

Lutry to Epesses or Rivaz. I adore the town of Lutry in itself. The walk from Lutry to Epesses or Rivaz will take about 2 or 3 hours.

Ingo -- yaaaaay! I love it when our thoughts agree!!

s

Another vote for Lutry - love this charming tiny town.

I mentioned Vevey for walks in the vineyards because you and Pal talked about Montreux. I think these walks get better and better the further west from Montreux-Vevey you go (until Lutry).

Well I cannot imagine any other vineyards being more awesome than those that carpet the long steep hill to its east - the walk I did down was thru nothing but vines. I never heard of Lutry but I'll have to look it up next time in that lovely lovely area which besides looking to me more old-world than most of Germanic Switzerland is also French-speaking and French in feeling - very different from German or Italian or Romansch Switzerland.

Very telling thing to me on the Golden Pass train from Spiez to Montreux - we could easily tell when it entered the French part of Switzerland around Chateau d'Oex by the way the woodpiles were stacked - on the German side oh so evenly cut and stacked - every end the exact same length - but on the French side more haphazzardly cut and not stacked in a straight line!

➢ swandav and
➢ ingo

I’m so glad you both mentioned Lutry! That’s the area I’ve been most seriously considering for my visit to the Lavaux vineyards – the stretch between Lutry and Cully.

One option would be to visit the vineyards from Lausanne starting in the late afternoon on the day I arrive there from Geneva (leaving Lausanne for Lutry by 17:00 or so at the latest, and preferably an hour or more earlier). If I do that, I believe it would be possible to spend an hour or so in Lutry, take the vineyard trail to Cully, stop briefly there, and still get back to Lausanne before sunset (which won’t be until after 21:00 when I’m there).

In case I feel pressed for time and so want only an hour for my time on foot, I’ve also been considering options for walking a smaller stretch of that trail, perhaps ending in Cully but starting in, say, Villette (but the train stop is by the lake, below the trail at that point?) or Grandvaux. I’m looking at that part as my possible short-option because of a Tripadvisor post by swandav that made me think that the trail between Lutry and Villette might not be quite as nice. (“I had to walk on a sidewalk next to the road for about half a mile between Villette and Lutry, yuk. … going into Lutry, the "trail" is really just some outcropping of rocks along the backside of the houses and villas.”)


➢ PalenQ

I loved your description of the transition from Germanic to French Switzerland, and will definitely pay attention to woodpiles as I move around!

You reminded me of a train trip I took many, many years ago from St. Petersburg to Helsinki. I couldn’t help but notice how different things were on one side of the border than the other. Thanks for bringing memories of that trip to my mind!

Hi again,

I believe the walk you quote me about is the lakeside trail, not the vineyard trail. I love lakes and usually try to find long stretches of walks next to them. I remember hoping to find one around Lutry but wasn't successful.

Yes, the vineyards are in the hills up above the lake, so it's best to get uphill a bit to enjoy them.

Yes, Villette is at the lakeside, as is Cully, so the vineyard walk might not be great. I think Villette to Grandvaux would be more "vineyard-y."

It would be a shame to miss Lutry though --

Take a good look using google maps, and you'll see what I mean.

Have fun!

s

Have I just identified an unexpected problem or found an unexpected bonus?

I just realized that my “day 7”—the day on which I planned to start in Fribourg, visit Neuchatel’s Latenium, roam around Solothurn, and reach Basel—is a holiday (Corpus Christi) in these specific areas.

From what I’ve been able to learn in the last few hours, the effect would be greatest in Fribourg, where there is a “solemn procession” on that day. My plan for Fribourg was to arrive the prior day and spend a couple of hours exploring before dinner. For this particular day (Corpus Christi), I would probably just walk around a bit before leaving. So maybe this holiday would provide a wonderful opportunity to observe a venerated local tradtiion (even if just for an hour or so), as opposed to a serious disruption. Any insights?

So far (at least), I haven’t found any indication that the Latenium would be closed for Corpus Christi. For Solothurn, my primary goal was just to walk around a bit. (There are a few churches where I’d like to spend a few moments if they are open, but nothing that’s an itinerary-driver for me, at least so far.) And I’m not particularly concerned about Basel—I hadn’t expected to have any real time for sightseeing on this particular day in any event, and there’s so much to see that I should have some options even if I have some time and find that a few things are closed. Do any of you see problems for these locations?

So what are your thoughts—is this a wonderful opportunity to see the procession in Fribourg or a reason to re-think this part of my itinerary? Or something else...?

Thanks again!


➢ swandav

OK, now I understand those comments about your walk from Villette to Lutry! Thanks for clarifying. (And just to confirm: This thread and its antecedent prove beyond doubt that I can find a way to create confusion out of just about any comment, no matter how clear! Thanks for your patience.)

I still hope to spend a bit of time in Lutry, even if I end up deciding to shorten or curtail my time for walking in the area. In the “worst“ case, you and your incomparable fellow Fodorites have given me a lot of ideas about alternative walking trails through various vineyards edging Lake Geneva. I can’t say how much I appreciate all this information!

So what are your thoughts—is this a wonderful opportunity to see the procession in Fribourg or a reason to re-think this part of my itinerary? Or something else...?>

Well those types of things have always been amongst the highlights of my trips - your luck - take advantage of it - who knows Solothun's churches may be closed in the afternoon after morning mass?

Definitely see the procession.

Well, Solothurn is just a great town overall. Unspoiled old town. City wall/gates, clock tower, fountains on small squares, the two churches ... two (?) manors nearby which are worth to see, but you won't have time for them; location is a bit of a distance from the town centre.

thanks Ingo for enlightening me about Soloturn - I passed thru there a few years ago and changed trains - took a brief look outside the station and did not see much - but I should have and will look around more - based on your impeccable endorsement!

➢ PalenQ and
➢ Ingo

I will view the procession in Fribourg as a welcome and unexpected bonus. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

For Solothurn, I realize that I might miss the interiors of churches (though I’ll check once there – one never knows!). And even if I can’t see them, I am looking forward to walking around the Old Town.

BTW, PalenQ, you might check out some of ingo’s stunning pics:
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/4166c/a8840/

Yes Solothun looks neat and a river like the Aare running thru it always makes a Swiss town nicer - will check it out next trip! Thanks to Ingo.

Progress made!
• Approved plan for leave from work: check
• Airline reservations: check
• Swiss Pass (1 month, 2nd class): check
• Cancel-for-any-reason trip insurance: check
• Fully cancellable reservations for lodging that I think will be at least satisfactory (if not better) in each of my destinations: check

I’ll be fine-tuning my plans over the next several months and will welcome further thoughts.

I’m very excited about this trip and thank you all for your help!

• Swiss Pass (1 month, 2nd class): check>

You can buy Swiss Passes at any Swiss train station but I have been comparing pass prices for those bought here and those bought there for years before buying my passes and more often than not the exact same pass is cheaper if bought in the U S than in Switzerland - why I do not know but that is a fact IMO - last week when I checked passes were significantly cheaper here than there - but things can change and that is not always true so check prices at sites like www.swisstravelsystem.com in CH francs - Swiss francs and figure in any foreign exchange fees your c card or ATM card may imposes for foreign purchases - often 3% vs prices for passes bought at home - check sources like http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/id3.html or www.rickstegves.com or www.raileurope.com - check various ones as though pass prices are always the same - required to be sold from any agent at the same price some can put on mailing or handling fees - many do not so check for the cheapest deal.
If buying there is about the same as here then you may just want to wait until landing - as once a pass is bought here if something comes up and you have to change your plans you will have some kind of cancellation fee - but if savings are significant as they were when I checked last year you could save a chunk of money by buying from a U S agent.

> PalenQ –

"check" = done! I have already purchased my Swiss Pass!

And BTW, before I did so, I consulted another of your posts that provides this very information, a post that I had flagged in advance – thanks! (And, for about $17, I bought insurance that allows me to cancel if necessary and also covers me if my pass is lost or stolen.)

Hi kja - OK! One last thing - do not forget to validate the pass at the train station ticket window in Geneva but if you are not going to use the pass that day only to go into Geneva you may not want to start the pass until you are doing something significantly - anyway you must take it up to a train station ticket window and show your passport and then they stamp it for the overall validity period.

But if you arrive in Geneva early and feel perky you could take one of the lake boats covered by the pass and float around to recuperate a bit from jet lag - boats go frequently and you can just go up to a nearby port and back - just flash the pass when boarding.

Since it also covers museums you may want to the first day check out some museum!

Cheers and Bon Voyage!

Thanks for the reminder, PalenQ! I plan to have my pass validated at the airport in Geneva, so I can begin using it right away. There’s no reason to delay, as my pass covers my full time in Switzerland.

Well, I'm a little late to the party.
But I just have two quick things to add.

1. I don't think you are crazy moving from Geneva to Lausanne to Vevey/Montreux. I can see the merits of it. But as was said above, the boat takes a long long long long time! It takes 2 hours or so from Lausanne to Montreux where the train takes 20 minutes. Even the boat from Vevey to Montreux/Chateux Chillon take an hour and the train takes something like 8mins. It's nice... But since you have a short time in these places, take the train, unless you find yourself with really nothing to do.... somehow I can't see.

In Lausanne, the hermitage and the musee d'art brut are both worth a visit. The mudac also depending on what the exhibit is.

2. Is there a particular reason you are staying 2 nights in Basel? Basel has to be the ugliest city in all of Switzerland (IMO). Personally, I'd skip it before I skipped a couple of other places you listed. Again, personally, I'd add a couple more days in other places leaving out Basel altogether unless there is something particular you want to see there?

> LucyLemonade

Thanks for chiming in! My trip isn’t for months yet, so you aren’t too late by any means.

1. I’ve actually spent my free time over the last few days trying to figure out how to fit in the boat ride between Lausanne to Montreux. It sounds SO lovely, and I do want to spend some time on a few of Switzerland’s stunning lakes over the course of my trip. But yes, it is a chunk of time, particularly in comparison to the train, and from what I can tell, there are only a few crossings each day during the time I'll be there.

One option I’m considering – and I know it’s going to sound REALLY crazy – is to take the train from Lausanne to Montreux, and then the next day, after visiting the Chateau de Chillon (walking along the Chemin Fleuri and spending a few hours at the castle) and after going to Rochers-de-Naye and back (with an hour at the top), I might take the boat to Lausanne and the train back again. As I said - crazy! But it seems to be the only way to make the timing work out, at least given my other priorities and the preliminary schedule I’ve seen for the boats. I should be able to return to Montreux in time for a nice dinner and at least I wouldn’t have to worry about the transportation costs, since I already have my Swiss Pass…. And honestly, nothing else in Montreux is grabbing my interest nearly as much, assuming that I hike the Lavaux wine terraces as planned late in the afternoon/early evening of the day I reach Lausanne from Geneva. (If that doesn't happen, then I might prefer to hike a bit of the wine terraces near Montreux instead.) At the very least, I’ll keep this crazy boat idea in mind as an option and play it by ear once there.

I was really looking forward to visiting the Fondation de l’Hermitage, but unfortunately, it looks like it will be closed while I’m there. (With my original plan, I would have been in Lausanne while it displays an exhibit that sounds interesting to me, but then I decided to start my trip later, and so am missing it.) The MUDAC is definitely on my list, as I have an interest in the decorative arts. I’ve been a bit more ambivalent about the Musee d’Art Brut, so I’m glad to take note of your recommendation.

2. As for Basel, I doubt that I'll have 2 full days there: I’ll reach it in time for a late dinner one evening and will leave once I finish seeing my high priority sites sometime on the day after my 2nd night there, probably by mid-day or mid-afternoon at the latest. I’m looking forward to Basel for its museums (the Kunstmusuem, the Fondation Beyeler, Historisches Musuem, Museum der Kulturen, Puppenhausmuseum....), along with the Munster, etc. If anything, I think I may not be planning enough time in Basel!

I’m not sure I’ll adjust my current plans (at least until events on the ground make me decide to do so), but nothing is “writ in stone” except my arrival and departure, so feel free to throw ideas my way!

Thanks again!

Yes. Basel has some nice museums. So as long as you stay inside, it's fine. I bet you'll come back and tell me it was your favorite town!

Montreux is pretty, but I don't find too much to do their either. There is a nice middle eastern restaurant that is "famous", Palais Oriental. However, I hear it's quite expensive. And personally, I think the vineyards from Vevey to Lausanne are the more beautiful.

If the weather is good, then I would do Vevey to Lausanne. It's an hour (+/-) not the full 2 hours if you do Montreux - Lausanne.

That's too bad about the Hermitage. The Art Brut.... Well, I like it however, it is a bit creepy and weird at times. If that's not your thing, you won't miss much skipping it.

I'm a museu in small doses kind of girl. Shall I throw a spanner in your plans and tell you about the museum in Martigny that is quite famous? You probably know it already. The Fondation Pierre Gianadda. I'm embarrassed to say, I've never been.

Basel has to be the ugliest city in all of Switzerland (IMO).>

I found Basel quite nice - a nice old town by the Rhine - if that is the ugliest town in Switzerland then Switzerland don't have no ugly towns! That said I would spend my time elsewhere if I were a first-time visitor to Switzerland with limited time.

If you like art, Basel is a great place to go. Think about adding Museum Tinguely to your list. Fondation Beyeler is really great -- glad it is on your list. Oh, and Musee de l'Art Brut in Lausanne is fascinating. The only other museum in the world dedicated to "outsider art" is in Baltimore, MD (American Visionary Art Museum).

<I found Basel quite nice - a nice old town by the Rhine - if that is the ugliest town in Switzerland then Switzerland don't have no ugly towns! That said I would spend my time elsewhere if I were a first-time visitor to Switzerland with limited time.>

Sure. We can pretend that Basel consists of solely and only the old quaint part of town, especially since the OP won't have much time to go further than that. Sadly my experience with Basel is the where tourists do not tread, the place where most people spend their days working, The Ugly Zone! It's tainted my view of the whole city.

Again, I personally am not a fan of Basel. But since the OP particularly likes museums, Basel has a couple of quite good ones.

Quite interesting that you tell a tourist Basel is ugly because the areas where tourists don't go are that. At the same time you concede that Basel has a quaint old town. HUH?

I am a big fan of Basel, not only because of the museums. The old town is really large and has picturesque corners lined up one after another. The medieval structure and architecture are well preserved. The churches are also worth seeing. It also has very nice areas outside the old town - St. Alban Vorstadt, parts of Kleinbasel e.g.

My objection to Basel was that the OP allocated _2 days_ to it. *IMO* the old town is not enough to spend 2 full days there, when there are *IMO* other more interesting places in Switzerland where the OP could spend those days instead. Thus my comment, which in no way constitutes a binding agreement on the part of the OP. Thankfully!

In return the OP expressed an interest in museums and I agreed that Basel does indeed have some excellent museums and that the OP will enjoy visiting these museums and may return with Basel as a favorite destination.

_As a whole_, I *personally* don't care for it. *IMO* it is an ugly step sister. I also conceded that *my opinion* of Basel _as a whole_ is probably tainted by the ugly areas where I spent too much time, much to my chagrin. Perhaps I'll change my mind one day about Basel. I'll certainly keep an open mind the next time I'm forced to go there.

Hi kja,

Rereading your China thread that was so helpful to us last year, I clicked on your "name" and ended up here. I hope I can return the favor in a small way, having lived in Switz (too many years ago).

Lauterbrunnen is great. We were just back there last summer. I highly recommend the Hotel Staubach - get a room with a balcony facing down the valley. Do the hikes above the valley -- one day for each side. If you need any more details, let me know.

If you have time while on Lago Maggiore, take a bus through Valle Verzaska. Stop at the Roman bridge, hike the hills, and enjoy some hearty risotto.

Switzerland is spectacular! Enjoy!

Once again, I stand in awe of Fodorites, who so generously take the time to share their perspectives! I continue to learn and benefit from all of you -- thank you so much and please keep all these great ideas coming.


➢ LucyLemonade

Thanks for the suggestion to take the boat to Lausanne from Vevey instead of from Montreux – sounds like a time-saving back-up option!

And thanks, too, for your restaurant recommendation. I am fortunate to live in a city with a lot of options for cuisines from around the world, so while I’m in Switzerland, I’ll generally be seeking dinners that feature regional specialities and/or local products. For my time around Lake Geneva (or in this case, I should perhaps say “Lac Leman”), I think I would like to have a few affordable meals (at least by Swiss standards, and yes, I know that won’t be cheap!) that feature French/Swiss/continental dishes, whether traditional or contemporary. I’m willing to consider a splurge meal in this region, if there’s a place that warrants it. (When I say splurge, I am definitely NOT talking Michelin-starred prices.) Recommendations are welcome!

I had not known of the Fondation Pierre Gianadda - it sounds interesting and the Chagall Court sounds quite special. It is now on my wishlist for my next trip to Switzerland.

I’m glad that you agree that Basel’s Old Town is quaint. It’s unfortunate that your overall experience of Basel was not entirely on the positive side. I hope your present and future positions allow you to live in places that are more to your liking – it can make such a difference!


➢ PalenQ and
➢ Ingo
Thanks for continuing to monitor this thread and for affirming that you found Basel enjoyable!


➢ artsbabe
Thanks for your comments! I am definitely looking forward to my visit to the Fondation Beyeler.

While I respect his efforts, I must admit that I’m not all that fond of Tinguely’s creations, and so (I’m sorry!) I had been thinking of skipping the Musee Tinguely. I believe that one of his fountains adorns the space in front of the Kunsthalle? I thought I’d enjoy spending a few minutes there for a “low dose” homage. Does that make sense?


➢ mrtaz49
Thanks so much, mrtaz, for jumping in and providing such helpful information!

It still surprises me that anyone would have found my ridiculously long trip report on China interesting or informative enough to read. That you started re-reading it is an incredible compliment – thanks so much! Although you say you found my report helpful, from what I can tell, what you learned from me was out-of-date information about the gates to the Forbidden City and second-hand advice on a “plan of attack” for visiting it – so you are definitely being too kind to me! Nonetheless, I am very pleased that you found value in my report and sincerely hope that you enjoyed your time in China. (Are you, perhaps, considering another trip there?)

I am delighted that you recommended the Hotel Staubach – that’s the hotel I’ve reserved! It sounds like it should meet my needs very well. I haven’t finished fleshing out my plans for the Bernese Oberland yet (and even if I had, I would be open to adjusting those plans), so please feel free to make additional recommendations.

And I can’t thank you enough for directing my attention to the Valle Verzaska! I haven’t fully researched the Ticino yet either, but my initial impressions had been that this valley would be a bit too out-of-the-way, so I had basically crossed it off. Since reading your message earlier today, I’ve done some additional preliminary research, and I am TRULY thrilled to think that I might be able to make this valley a part of my trip! From what I’ve learned today, it seems that I can get into the valley easily by bus from Ascona/Locarno, and if I time things carefully, I should be able to get off somewhere (maybe Corippo?) and take a reasonably easy walk for an hour or two to Laventezzo, and then catch a bus back to Locarno.

So – to my surprise – visiting this valley might now be my primary objective for my time in Ascona/Locarno! Or I could try to visit it instead of going to Bellinzona, although from what little I know at this point, I think I would enjoy visiting those three castles. Any thoughts about how to divide my time among Ascona/Locarno, the Valle Verzaska, and Bellinzona will be welcome. Or maybe I need to adjust my plans for Lugano?

Thanks so much for your comments and especially for making sure I knew of this enticing area!

Sorry. I didn't mean for the conversation to veer off to my dislike of Basel. Travel is very personal and your impressions of a place not solely about the place itself, but also who you're with and why you're going, etc. And as such I know *you* will really enjoy your trip there.

Now, I'm stuck with the idea that you are going to see 100 museums. Did you add the Paul Klee in Bern? And have you looked into the Swiss Museum pass?

Going back through your days in Fribourg/Neuchatel/Gruyeres. This is where I personally think you don't have enough time and this was where I'd have taken a day from Basel to tack on here or I'd skip Neuchatel.

Do you have a revised, revised itinerary? Oh, & what sort of budget are you taking about for food? I could dig out some recommendations.

Now, I'm stuck with the idea that you are going to see 100 museums. Did you add the Paul Klee in Bern? And have you looked into the Swiss Museum pass?>

No need for a Swiss Museum Pass if you have a Swiss Pass as a Swiss Pass not only covers trains, boats, buses and practically everything that moves in Switzerland save cows but also gives free entry to 400+ Swiss museums - exactly the same as the Swiss Museum Pass does so if you have a Swiss Pass you automatically have a Swiss Museum Pass too.

Don't be so modest re your China report. It was wonderfully inspiring and useful. I actually printed it, highlighted the relevant sections (general info/planning, Xi'an, Beijing), and brought it with us. My comment at the time about the North gate to the Forbidden City being closed was not a complaint, rather, an update and caution to others. Your post helped make this the most horizon-expanding trip we've taken recently.

Yes, we are going back in March for business. So it's just a few days each in Zhongshan, Shenzhen and Shanghai. Then over to Japan for ten days (I'll be posting for Japan recommendations this weekend).

We love the Staubbach. We first stayed there 13 years ago with our kids, shortly after Craig and Corinne had bought it and were starting to restore its faded glory. Renovations are moving along; it's a mom & pop operation so my sense is they renovated as funds and time permit, so there's still that feeling of homeyness and faded glory. The position is unrivaled, and, as I said, a room with a balcony facing up the valley makes the most of the view (although there are also communal balconies you can use for your evening drink as the setting sun fades from one peak after another, if you don't have one of the prime rooms). The one downside of these rooms is the sound of the late-night carousing at the pub a block away, but we survived that If Katrin is still working there, she's a treat -- very nice, helpful, and a wry sense of humor. The buffet breakfast will fuel your day of hiking (take some of the yummy pretzel rolls with you).

We did two delightful hikes, one above either side of the valley. They're really more like walks or rambles, with only a few moderately strenuous sections -- no worse than walking up Coal Hill or parts of the Great Wall -- you'll see families with young children and octogenarians in lederhosen. The various transports do the heavy lifting and you get the awesome views!
They're well documented everywhere so briefly:
1- Left side (as you face up the valley from the hotel) -- Cog railway to Wengen. Stroll this upscale ski resort. Cable car to top. Walk literally in the shadows of the Eiger, Jungfrau and Monch. I have not taken the train to the Jungfraujoch. There are cafes all along the way, and depending on conditions and your stamina, you can walk as far as you want and catch a train back to Lauterbrunnen.
2- Right side -- Cable car from Lauterbrunnen. We got off there and walked to Murren. You can also take the train to Murren and just walk from there, but the walk to Murren is very nice. From Murren, you can take a cable car down to the valley, or walk to Gimmelwald and take a cable car from there. All options are good. It just depends on how your legs and knees are feeling. From the bottom of the cable cars, you can either walk back to the Staubbach (as I did) or take a bus (as my wife did).
The valley itself is beautiful and easy to explore on foot, bike rental, or bus. Definitely check out the waterfalls, which should be dramatic when you're there.

Lago Maggiore.
Ascona is lovely. Like an Italian beach town on a lake. I have only stopped there for short visits.
My favorite town on Lago Maggiore is Stresa, but it may be too far south for you. Perhaps you can take a cruise that gets you down there and lets you walk around the Isole Boromee which are worth a visit.

Valle Verzaska is great because it's off the beaten track, known mostly by locals. It's relatively unspoiled. Farmers still bring their herds up the mountains in the summer, and the log chalets are authentic, not vacation homes. I've been there by car, so I can't comment on walking trails from village to village, but I imagine there are lots of options. Definitely get off at the bridge in Lavertezzo. It's beautiful and impressive. And, if the weather is good you could be treated to the spectacle of people jumping from the bridge into the river below. No, I've never done that but I have gone in the water pools below on a warm day.

IMO, Bellinzona is only worth a stop en route to Lugano just to see the castles. Not worth an overnight. Lugano's lake front is nice. Visit the Villa Favorita. I'd suggest going to the top of either Monte Bre or Monte San Salvatore. I once took the funicolare up San Salvatore and then walked to Morcote and took the boat back to Lugano. Probably about a 1 - 2 hour walk, but that was many, many years ago.

I hope some of this helps. Ask away if you have more questions.

<No need for a Swiss Museum Pass if you have a Swiss Pass .....(it) also gives free entry to 400+ Swiss museums.>

Oh, well that's perfect then! I'll see if I can't think of more good museums for KJA to visit.

> LucyLemonade

The Zentrum Paul Klee is, indeed, in my plan – I love the playfulness of his work! Keep those great museum ideas coming!

And thanks for making sure I was aware of my pass options - they can make such a difference! As PalenQ noted, my Swiss Pass (already in hand) covers hundreds of museums, so I’m all set.

I can see why you would think my time in Fribourg, Neuchatel, and Gruyeres too limited. For what it’s worth, I expect to stop in Neuchatel just long enough to visit the Latenium. I expect to turn to detailed planning for this leg of my trip over the next week or so, so any suggestions you care to make about this area will be quite timely.

The itinerary that I presented at the start of this thread has survived so far with minimal changes. The minor tweaks are: I hope to visit the Lavaux upon arriving in Lausanne on day 3 rather than day 4; I will make time for the Valle Verzasca on day 11 or 12, and I hope to visit St. Gallen on the same day that I day-trip from Zurich to Winterthur.

I don’t have a specific budget for dinners, at least not yet. In general, I’m hoping to avoid spending a fortune, but would rather spend a bit more for a good meal than a bit less for a mediocre one. I am aware that a nice meal in some cities will cost a bit more than I am accustomed to spending. I will probably splurge a few times over the course of my trip. For the splurges, I can’t imagine thinking that my palette sufficiently refined to justify anything over $150 (counting food, wine, taxes, and tip).


> PalenQ

NOW you tell me that the Swiss Pass doesn't cover cows!?! Oh no!

Seriously, if any Fodorite fails to understand the benefits of the Swiss Pass, it is most assuredly his/her own fault! You are to be commended for so patiently and faithfully providing information about it!


> mrtaz

Again, thanks so much! It really is gratifying to know that my words helped another traveler. I certainly didn’t mean to suggest that you had complained – indeed, you provided a valuable service with your update. I hope you enjoy your next trip to China, and I am certain you will enjoy Japan! It is beautiful and fascinating and very, very easy to explore. The hard part will be deciding which places to visit. In the meantime, if you haven’t already seen it, you can find a LOT of very helpful information at japan-guide.com

I was very pleased to have booked with the Staubbach, which gets some really great reviews. It’s nice to hear that you’ve had such good experiences with the owners and staff over the years. I also appreciated your comments about the rooms sans balcony – having been assured that a communal balcony would be right across the hall, that’s what I booked.

I am looking forward to some wonderful walks while in Lauterbrunnen and have added your suggestions to my notes about my options there.

I’ll be looking into your suggestions for the Ticino, too. Unfortunately, it seems that the Villa Favorita is closed, but I’ll definitely keep my eye on it in the off-chance that it should open again - sounds like a very special place! I’m learning more about the Valle Verzasca and am really delighted by the prospect of visiting it.

Thanks so much for taking the time to make my trip better!

Hi again,

For some options for dining in the Lake Geneva region, think about these:

Montreux – La Rouvenaz (across the street from the tourist information booth on the main street), an Italian and seafood restaurant and wine bar that’s hugely popular with tourists and locals alike. Noisy and busy and really good.

Village of Glion, above Montreux – get there by train or by funicular. The funicular is located behind the Anglican Church right at the bus stop “Territet.” You can get to the funicular on foot (about 30 minutes) or by bus (#201). Restaurant there is La Jaman (down the street from the train station, on the left). This restaurant has two parts – one part is a Pinte, which is like a local pub that serves good local food, and the other part is a full restaurant. Serves Vaudois and French food, with imaginative salads to foie gras, to fondue. I’ve seen mostly what appears to be families and old friends there, as well as workmen in coveralls.

Wine-growing village of Rivaz, in the Lavaux vineyards – get there by ferry (www.cgn.ch), by local train, or by train to Chexbres (change in Vevey) and then a 20-minute walk down through the vineyards. Restaurant there is the Auberge du Rivaz (across the street from the dock/train station). Serves local food, from local harvests. Most times the customers are the ladies-who-lunch type, though the food is basic and not expensive.

Vevey – get there by bus (#201), by lake ferry (www.cgn.ch), or by train. Restaurants there are: 1. Hostellerie de Geneve (right on the main square), an Italian restaurant with a terrific terrace on the main square for people-wathching. Hugely popular with locals and tourists. 2. Le Mazots (hole in the wall tucked away in the tangled streets of the old town), serves Vaudois specialites and is full of long-term residents and locals. I always see some old-timers in there getting the fixed-price menu of the day. Address: Rue du Conseil 7.

On my last stay in Montreux, I also ate at the Buffet de la Gare in Glion (exit the train stataion/funicular, and there it is). Much of its food is Ukranian, but the views are four-star.

On my last stay, I also finally got to the Caveau des Vignerons up in the old town. I had a fondue, and it was ok, nothing special. The atmosphere was old-world, and all of the patrons seemed to know each other, a place for regulars.

Oh, I also ate at the Le Saxo inside the Casino at Montreux. It was very touristy and very busy (a local took me there, so locals like it as much as the tourists do). The food was divine.

Hope you're finding everything you need!

s

I'll second both Le Mazot in Vevey and La Rouvenaz in Montreux. We ate at Le Saxo in '08. The only thing I can remember about it was it was free! We were having drinks in the casino waiting for everyone to arrive. When we were all there and ready to move to the restaurant, I played my last game on the slots and I won enough for the 6 of us to have dinner for free. Yeah me!

For restaurants, I’ll stick with traditional suggestions, no ethnic for you. I know you probably won't have time to eat in some of these places but I'll list them anyway.

In Gruyeres: The Hotel de Ville is my favorite.

In Neuchatel: Cafe Jura, Brasserie Cardinal, the cider fondu at La Taverne neuchâteloise is so so good!

In Fribourg: Café des Arcades, Café du Gothard, Hotel de Ville (reserve!)

In Bern: Café Federal, Della Casa (Italian)

In Lausanne: Gruetli, Café Romand, Bistro at Pomme de Pin (my favorite! The restaurant section is wonderfulllll. But quite expensive. So I go to the bistro part.)

As for the caveaux, we usually go to the Caveaux Corto. There are 13 vintners that share the running of it. It’s modern so you won’t get the old world charm. But the views are amazing and TBH, I have a thing for Corto Maltese.

You can check this site for plenty of other caveaux options along the way:
www.vignerons-lavaux.ch

➢ swandav and
➢ LucyLemonade

I can’t thank either of you enough – what a wealth of options and information! I’ve seen recommendations for some of these establishments, but not all of them. And I defintiely would have missed some of these places entirely – like how nice it might be to see the views from Glion, or that there is a bistro attached to the otherwise completely unaffordable Pomme de Pin. Thanks so much!

To avoid any confusion, let me note that I am not, in general, opposed to ethnic cuisine. LucyLemonade correctly summarized my comment that because I have very good access to a wide array of cuisines in the city in which I now live, I prefer to use my time when traveling to focus on regional and seasonal cuisines that feature local ingredients.


➢ mrtaz (or others familiar with the Ticino)

Am I correct in thinking that a visit to the castles of Bellinzona will likely take somewhere on the order of 3 hours, not counting the time to get to/from Bellinzona? Thanks!

And thanks for making sure I was aware of my pass options - they can make such a difference! As PalenQ noted, my Swiss Pass (already in hand) covers hundreds of museums, so I’m all set.>

to make it clear however you have to be using a 100% covered travel day for this to be so - if you have a Swiss Flexipass that gets you 50% off everything in between the first and last day of 100% coverage days then you'd have to be using one of your flexible travel days to get the free entry to museums - I do not even think you'd get 50% off if on a day in between your flexible days like you would on everything else that moos in Switzerland - oops I mean moves!

3 hours in Bellinzona should be more than enough. I lived in Lugano for 3 years and never visited Bellinzona until I went back years later with my wife and teenage kids for a quick stop, walk on the walls and back on the road.

If I recall correctly, a questionable question perhaps, do I not remember the Bellinzona castles being largely ruins? Not sure just curious.

➢ PalenQ

From what I’ve read, the Bellinzona castles have been (to quote Fodor’s) “exceptionally well restored.” The pics I've seen on the web look stunning, and there are apparently some small museums in at least 2 (maybe all 3) of the castles. Doesn't mean they are worth visiting, but they have been given UNESCO World Heritage status.

As for my coverage of museums, I have a 1-month Swiss Pass, which I plan to validate upon my arrival at the airport in Geneva. So it should cover just about everything I plan to do. But now I'm reading that the Swiss Pass may not cover all boats on Lake Maggiore. Perhaps some of them moo? What gives!?!

(I’m not sure if / when I’ll forgive PalenQ for providing such misleading information about transport by cow. And I’m afraid that he’ll now try to tell me that I won’t be able to use my pass to ride sheep or goats or alpine cats, either. Really, PalenQ, quit telling us that the pass covers everything that moves unless it really does! )


➢ mrtaz

Good to know that the Bellinzona castles can be visited in a few hours! That means I have more time for other parts of the Ticino!

From what I have learned so far, it seems that there are two botanical gardens within an easy boat ride of Locarno – one on Isole di Brissago and one above Vira (the Parco Botanico del Gambarogno). Any comments you can offer to help me decide between them will be appreciated!

Also, I had thought that I might take the train from Locarno into the Centovalli because the scenery sounds spectacular, but I’m not sure I’ll have time. Do you think the scenery would make it worthwhile if I go only as far as Camedo? Or is there another point, short of Domodossola, that you would recommend for turning back?

While in Lugano, I really like the idea of taking a funicular to San Salvatore, walking to Mercote, and taking a ferry back to Lugano. Thanks so much for mentioning it! That option sounds far better to me than going to Mont Bre. If you disagree, let me know!

Thanks again!

But now I'm reading that the Swiss Pass may not cover all boats on Lake Maggiore. Perhaps some of them moo? What gives!?!>

No I do not thing Swiss Passes pass on Lake Maggiore because that lake is largely in Italy and I believe served mainly by Italian boats.

Moooooo!

I hope I'm right about Bellinzona. Apparently, the castles have been restored since my visit there.

I don't know the botanical gardens, so can't help.

I loved the drive through Centovalli when I'd return from Zermatt to Lugano. Why aren't you going to Zermatt? I think you could do a scenic train ride from Zermatt through Centovalli to Locarno. Otherwise, from Locarno, I'd suggest trying to go as far as Santa Maria Maggiore, a nice town with a beautiful church.

I'd also choose San Salvatore over Bre. As I recall the walk, it's pretty flat along the ridge until the downhill to Morcote. Back then the walk was through some residential areas and woods. Probably now more of the former and less of the latter

I think you could do a scenic train ride from Zermatt through Centovalli to Locarno. Otherwise, from Locarno,>

The lovely Centovalli ('100 valleys') train from Locarno to Domodossola in Italy can also be incorporated into say a Lugano/Locarno to Interlaken area - in fact the fastest way to do that I would think - via Brig and Spiez.

As far as I know the boats on Lake Maggiore are not covered by the Swiss Pass. It is an Italian company that runs these boats.

The Bellinzona castles are in fact well restored: The Castelgrande (lowest) is the largest, but least originally preserved. Very modern additions. Castelbello (middle) is the best preserved IMO, most interesting, I'd say. Sasso Corbaro (highest) offers the best views, is also well preserved. Each of them can be visited in short time; but I hope you know it is quite an uphill (and later downhill) walk/hike from one to another ...

The hike from Monte San Salvatore goes first downhill to Carona, a picturesque village with a nice garden/park (Parco San Grato). From there it is a flat hike along the plateau until you finally hike down (steep!) to Morcote.

From Locarno: Isola di Brissage is a *must* - lovely botanical garden and beautiful villa (restaurant). Parco Botanico del Gambarogno goes back to the private garden of Mr. Eisenhut (if I recall correctly) who had a horticulture/gardening business. It's mostly camellias, magnolias, rhododendren, azaleas. End of May/early June not much is in bloom (maybe late rhododendren and azaleas), so I'd skip that one.

The Centovalli is fantastic, but you don't have time for everything, right? Going as far as Camedo is enough, I'd say. It is more rewarding, btw, to get off the train in Verdasio, e.g., and take the cable car up to Rasa, a tiny, typical village (car-free) high above the valley. There is another cable car from Verdasio to Monte Comino (opposite side of the valley, south-facing) from where excellent hiking trails start.

It’s very clear to me that I don’t have enough time for the Ticino (or anywhere else, really). I can’t thank you all enough for helping me think through my options and priorities!


➢ mrtaz

I decided – with reluctance – to skip Zermatt (and several other destinations) because there are simply too many things I want to see in the time I have. Given that I couldn’t be sure that the weather would permit a clear view of the Matterhorn, I decided I would skip Zermatt this time. It’s on my list for my next trip to the area!

I’m looking forward to the views from San Salvatore and my walk down to the lake!


➢ PalenQ

I’ll flag the route from Locarno through Domodossola to Zermatt for a future journey – thanks!


➢ Ingo

Thanks for your comments on the castles of Bellinzona and the warnings about the steepness of walks that connect them. Although I generally prefer easy hikes, I don’t mind tackling a steep stretch now and again, especially (but not necessarily) if I’m heading down!

And thanks for bringing the Parco San Grato in Carona to my attention. Looks like it has several very pleasant recommended paths. I’ll try to plan enough time for a brief visit.

Isola di Brissage is now firmly on my agenda – thanks for helping me decide!

And I appreciate the suggestion to stop in Verdasio and visit Rasa. I’ll explore that option as I flesh out my plans for the area.


One new question:

To stop at the Latenium on my way from Fribourg to Solothurn, am I correct in thinking that Neuchatel-Gare would be the best place for me to leave my suitcase?

If you go to the Swiss rail site (sbb.ch) you can choose your station and it will tell you what is available there. Go to "station and services" then "find your station". Type in the name of the station and you can read what sevices, etc are available at that station.

Neuchatel has lockers listed including sizes and prices.

Hi again, LucyLemonade! Thanks for making sure I knew how to find out which stations have lockers and left-luggage desks and other options. What I meant to ask was whether I’m looking at the best station, since it is possible to get from the Latenium to Solothurn without going back into Neuchatel. I didn’t see anything that looked like a better option, but thought I’d ask just in case someone knew of something. The good news is that Neuchatel-Gare should meet my needs.

Thanks for making sure I knew how to find out which stations have lockers and left-luggage desks and other options>

well every station I have ever been in in Switzerland has had some kind of lockers - in major stations yes various sizes so you can depend on their being lockers in any sizable Swiss station. You can also send luggage ahead of trains though that costs quite a bit - to your destination or even to your plane.

The InterRegio from Fribourg to Neuchatel passes St Blaise which is the station closest to the Latenium. You could have gotten off the train at St. Blaise. However, I just checked (didn't have time earlier) and that station does not have lockers. So your best bet would be to just keep going to Neuchatel (10mins extra) and leaving your bags there.

I checked via Biel & Bern, but the connections from Fribourg aren't great. Going to and from Neuchatel will lose you some time, but nothing crazy if you time it right. It's probably your best bet.

On latenium.ch I saw they have a cloakroom and lockers for your valuables. It might be an idea to send them an email and ask about leaving your luggage right there. Would save you a lot of time, no?

I had thought about that too. Though the lockers at the museums tend to be just big enought for your coat and a school/computer size back pack. Of course it doesn't hurt to ask!

Ah, I just remembered the other reason I didn't mention the lockers at the museum,; you'd still have to walk 15 mins to the Latenium from St Blaise station with the bags. So its probably just easier to leave them in Neuch.. I don't think you'll gain much time by not going back.

latenium.ch says there is a bus, too:
http://www.latenium.ch/#pratique2?id=1

> PalenQ and
> LucyLemonade and
> Ingo

You are all totally awesome! I am deeply indebted to you for sharing your experiences, and even doing additional research, to help me plan my trip! Thank you so very much!

Through your responses today, I’ve learned that:

• Swiss train stations may have lockers, even if the sbb.ch site doesn’t show them (so I won’t plan on finding them if not listed on the web-site, but I’ll look for them whenever they might prove useful just in case);

• Neuchatel-Gare is probably the best train station for me to leave luggage, if I choose to leave my luggage at a train station while visiting the Latenium; and

• The Latenium might have space for my luggage, if I can get there with my suitcase. Ingo has just now confirmed my understanding that I can take a bus (I had made it at least that far through the museum’s web site!), although I think I might have to transfer a few more times than I would like if I try that option (particularly on the way to Solothurn). Before deciding whether to take my luggage to the Latenium, I will check with the museum first to make sure they can accommodate a suitcase.

My sincere thanks to each of you for your efforts to help me figure out my best options for this transfer! This day is one of the most ambitious of my planned itinerary, so anything I can learn in advance to think through my plans (and my back-up plans) is tremendously helpful.


In the meantime, I’ve been working on plans for my night and less-than-a-day in Lucerne. I visited it (and fell in love with it!) in 1989 and am really looking forward to my brief re-visit. I’m thinking through a few options and would welcome comments.

The KKL has a performance the night that I’ll be in Lucerne. From what I can tell, the seats I would be willing to pay for are “nose-bleed seats,” but I think I might enjoy the performance nonetheless, particularly if the much-acclaimed acoustics of this concert hall aren’t critically dependent on the location of the seats. Even so, I’m inclined to forego this opportunity so I have greater freedom to play-it-by-ear when leaving Basel for Lucerne (giving me more time to see the museums in Basel) and to make sure that I have plenty of time to re-discover Lucerne’s Old Town (and to do so at sunset). If I reach Lucerne early enough and am still interested, I can check whether tickets are available, but I’m not overly sanguine about that option, as it will be a Saturday evening. But maybe seeing sunset from the KKL would actually be a bonus. Any thoughts?

I’m quite embarrassed to admit that I hadn’t realized until yesterday that I could visit Mt. Pilatus from Lucerne in just a few hours – somehow, I’d thought it was a full day excursion. With this new information, I’m considering trying to visit Mt. Pilatus on the morning after my overnight in Lucerne (day 10) if the weather seems auspicious. (I’d try to get up a bit earlier than I usually do, if it’s true that clouds often move in mid-day.) I’d probably go for the route up through Alpnachstad and via the cog rail, then down via cable cars to Kriens. I think I should be able to get back to Lucerne, visit the Sammlung Rosengart and maybe the Kunstmuseum or Picasso Museum, and still reach Ascona in time for a late dinner. My current thinking is that I would only try to visit Mt. Pilatus this day if there seems to be a reasonably chance of good weather. The down side would be losing about a half day in the Ticino, leaving me with only 3 days there. Any reactions?

BTW, I do realize that trains between Lucerne and other places I’ll visit later in the trip (e.g., Lauterbrunnen and Zurich) are rapid enough that I can return if I want to. I’m just trying to think through my priorities so I can use my time - and any good days for panoramic views from mountain tops -- to best advantage.


Thanks again!

Small correction on PalQ's post and kja's understanding --

There are some train stations in Switzerland that do NOT have lockers, so do not assume that all do.

Two that do not are Montbovon and Gruyeres -- and this makes a visit to Gruyeres somewhat difficult if travellers are enroute between Montreux and Interlaken (or Gstaad). Yes, there is a cloakroom in the cheese demonstration building in Gruyeres, but it isn't secure, and I don't know if it's common to leave suitcases there.

Anyway, just a caution.

s

In any case

Gosh, I hadn't even though of the bus. (Where's the embarrassed smiley?) It's a clear sign I drive too much. Either way, you're not really going to save time there. The time you save not going back to Neuch is the time you lose taking the InterRegio to Solothurn. Really, it's a wash.

That's a tough decision about the concert. As you say, it's not likely that you'll get tickets on the day. I don't envy you that decision!

However, my thoughts would be this, if I found myself there on the same day as an event at the concert hall, I would be inclined to go. That would mean I'd probably not go up to the mountain the next day to spend the time walking around Lucern.

If you stick to your plan to go up the mountain, I'd skip the 1/2 day at the museum and to Ascona directly. Or I guess instead of going to the museum you could spend that time walking around the old town.

Either way, you can't lose. Maybe leave room for a bit of spontaneity. I'm actually quite excited for you! I want your trip to start now!

Yes, swandav2000 is correct. Not sure where the idea a station may have lockers even if they are not listed on the SBB site came from. This is why the site is so useful. If they are not listed, it's is 99.9% sure they don't have them. I suspect it was perhaps a typo on KJA's part.

Also, the "cloakrooms" at museums are to put your bulky items like coats/back packs/shopping, etc. They are not big enough to leave luggage and as Swan says the "room" (sometimes just a corridor) are not locked and not a good idea to leave luggage there unattended.

Hi LL,

Pal Q posted this on 14 Feb:

"well every station I have ever been in in Switzerland has had some kind of lockers - in major stations yes various sizes so you can depend on their being lockers in any sizable Swiss station. You can also send luggage ahead of trains though that costs quite a bit - to your destination or even to your plane."

So I wanted to make sure there was no misunderstanding.

s

Ah, yes, I saw that. He did say all the stations he has ever been at. I just assumed he hasn't actually been to every single station.

But you are right to clarify. If someone comes to this thread later we don't want them to be confused.

Also, the SBB is quite thorough. You can be confident that if it's not listed on their site, it's not actually there.

➢ swandav and
➢ LucyLemonade

Many thanks to both of you for making sure that I, and all others who read this thread, have good information about locker options!


➢ LucyLemonade

Thanks for your thoughts about my time in Lucerne. Whatever else I do, roaming around its Old Town again is completely NON-negotiable! Visiting the Rosengart Collection is my next highest priority. The rest is all “icing on the cake.” (OMG, this trip has a LOT of icing! ) As you say, I won’t lose no matter what I choose!

I know it sounds odd, but one advantage that I find to planning my trips in great detail is that It allows me to make better spontaneous decisions because I’ve already thought through my priorities and cosidered the consequences of spending more or less time in various places. And fortunately, I love planning my trips! I’m not saying anyone else should plan as I do – Vive la différence!

And BTW, I’m very excited about this trip, too –and the really good news is that I become even more excited the more I learn. It is going to be totally awesome!

I did say _a little bit_ of spontaneity. If there is any talk of spontaneity in this house, my husband will spontaneously combust! LOL

Lake Lucerne to me is the most awesome of all awesome Swiss lakes - take a boat trip on its fjord-like part north to Fluelen and then take the train back to Lucerne. You can get off and take a mountain train up to Mt Rigi, one of Switzerland's most celebrated lookout points - it is not so high but has a nifty lateral view of the spiny central Alpine ridge of Switzerland. You can go up via train and down via cable car (boats and train covered 100% by a Swiss Pass - aerial cableway 50% off).

➢ LucyLemonade

LOL – sounds like you and your husband have a plan for his response to a spontaneous idea! I trust you have a good fire extinguisher, just in case.


➢ PalenQ

I treasure my memories of a boat ride along the Vierwaldstadtersee during my first trip to Europe. I took a boat from Lucerne to Rutli, where I had just enough time for a brief visit to the Rutli Meadow before returning (by boat) to Lucerne in time to be sure that I would not miss my train onward. I don’t believe it would be possible for a day to be more spectacularly suited for a leisurely boat ride through that amazingly, stunningly, indescribably gorgeous area. It was, indeed, awesome!

I’m certain that I would enjoy Mt. Rigi, but I think I could only visit it if I sacrifice something else. I am definitely willing to entertain suggestions, but I must admit that I don’t see any obvious “can-skips” in my current plan. But you (and others) have the advantage of actually having visited the places I’m hoping to see, so maybe there is something you think I can (or even should) skip…. I don’t promise to take your advice, but I do promise to give it serious consideration!

Thanks again!

kja-

Mt Rigi to me was nice but not great or as great as other things you may do - the boat ride was the reason for doing it to me and like you I loved both the Rutli Meadow, where the Swiss Confederation was born centuries ago, and the whole lake in general.

If doing Mt Pilatus you can take a boat to Alpnachstad to catch the thrilling train up there (or take the train to A;lpnachstad right from Lucerne.

➢ PalenQ

Thanks again PalenQ – I’m glad you agree that Mt. Rigi is a lower priority than the places already on my itinerary.

I’m currently inclined to visit Mt. Pilatus if the weather is promising on the morning I’ll be in Lucerne. If I do that, I think that I will most likely skip Bellinzona. I’m still working through several scenarios for my time in the Ticino….

➢ PalenQ

Thanks again PalenQ – I’m glad you agree that Mt. Rigi is a lower priority than the places already on my itinerary.

I’m currently inclined to visit Mt. Pilatus if the weather is promising on the morning I’ll be in Lucerne. If I do that, I think that I will most likely skip Bellinzona. I’m still working through several scenarios for my time in the Ticino….

Mt Pilatus is fickle IME - nearly always shroude3d in clouds or fog even if this rest of the sky is clear.

Scenic Swiss Trains in a Nutshell | Europe Forum | Fodor's Travel ...
www.fodors.com/community/.../scenic-swiss-trains-in-a-nutshell.cf... - rail links at Tirano, Italy and St Moritz - Majola Pass bus to Lake ...

one of my old posting about Swiss trains - fantastic Swiss trains!

(Sorry, all, for the double post.)

➢ PalenQ

Again, many thanks! If Mt. Pilatus is veiled, I think I’ll be able to visit Bellinzona on my way to Ascona. If the skies and forecast seem clear, I’ll decide whether to risk a shrouded top (and skip Bellinzona) or not. I don’t like passing up the opportunity for a great panoramic view, but I think Bellinzona will be a bit different than other things I’ll experience on this trip, and so am reluctant to give it up. The good news is that I don’t have to decide in advance! (If anyone wants to make an argument one way or the other, I’ll welcome it.)

Your posts on Swiss trains are invaluable, PalenQ. For anyone who is following this thread, note that clicking the link above might take you to a message that reads, “The topic or member you're looking for is no longer available on Fodors.com.” If it does, you can type: “scenic swiss trains in a nutshell” into google, and you should find the thread.

kjs - thanks for telling me my link was gone!

http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/scenic-swiss-trains-in-a-nutshell.cfm#

Just fooling around to see if this link works.

Again thanks for informing me that the other one did not!

> PalenQ

From what I can tell, the new link works. Thanks again for all you have done for all of us who plan to visit to Switzerland!

Bookmarking

kja - thanks vfor thanks and resurrecting my apparently long lost Scenic Swiss trains thread!

Moooooo!

Stumbled across this long thread today and thought I would add my two bits worth.
In the Lausanne area you might want to consider staying in one spot and going out from there since Vevey and Montreux are so close. You look at staying in Ouchy which is down the hill from Lausanne on the lake. Very nice. One of my favorite museums is actually the L'Art Brut in Lausanne. An excellent and average priced restaurant downtown Lausanne is Le Raisin http://www.leraisin-lausanne.ch/ (Also a hotel).

Gruyere is a very nice town that I always take my visitors to, but it is very small and it won't take much time to see unless you decide to go to the Chateau Gruyere, which is one of my favorite castles. Eat at Le Chalet just at the base of the short road to the castle, as they have the best fondue in Gruyere. Gstaad is also not big and may be rather quiet in Spring. You may only want to stay an hour or so.

When in Fribourg make sure you go down the steep hill to the lower town (basse-ville) along the river Sarine as it is the original part and is very well preserved. A yummy restaurant and hotel down there is Le Sauvage http://www.hotel-sauvage.ch/html/fr/ but it is a bit pricier. For some of the best priced and delicious food in CH I recommend L'Ancienne Gare http://www.cafeanciennegare.ch/. Not your traditional CH dishes but it is an artsy sort of a hang out. Fribourg is a young University town.

Between Fribourg and Neuchatel is fabulous little town mentioned by a previous Fodorite, called Murten or Morat (in French). It is right beside a lake of the same name and is another stop on my places to take visitors to. You can leave your luggage at the train station for chf5 (I stopped in today to ask them). You can walk along the ramparts in this town and then walk outside the walls and down to the lake. If you have enought time I would suggest taking a passenger boat from Morat/Murten across the lake to Motier or Praz then following the path around the eastern end of the lake, through forest and back to Morat. With the boat ride this would take about 2 to 2 1/2 hours.

In Brienz you mention an outdoor museum. If you mean Ballenberg, then you MUST go. It's fantastic, but huge. You could easily spend one whole day here. If you take a picnic lunch you can eat in one of several picnic areas in the grounds. For an architectural buff this is a not to be missed museum.

Thun is worth a stop as it is really nice with the canals running through it and the mountains just right there at the end of the lake. You could consider catching a boat in the direction of Interlaken if the day is nice and the Alps are clear.

Have fun.

Hi, I may be a bit late with comments but I have one suggestion. I would consider staying a couple of nights in Wengen instead of 4 nights in Lauterbrunnen. It is just a short rail trip up the mountain from Lauterbrunnen and Wengen is a beautiful charming village with spectacular views. From there you can visit Klein Scheidegg and Top of Europe as well as hike and simply relax.

In June 2011 we stayed at the Edelweiss Inn - a simple but wonderful hotel with speculation views. We had an upper room, south facing with an incredible view of the mountains. The staff were gracious and very helpful with suggestions for the area. See my blog from the trip roadstosomewhere.com for more information and photos of Wengen and Top of Europe.

Have a great trip!