kja

➢ Dutyfree and
➢ PalenQ

The costs are definitely on the daunting side. As someone who has always traveled closer to the budget end than not, I’ve found it a bit unsettling at moments. But at least I knew that Switzerland would be expensive when I began planning, and for better or worse, I made the decision to go despite the expense.

I think my biggest challenge when it comes to costs will be dinners: I love to relax over an evening meal, and I love to have a few glasses of wine with said meal, and I love to eat well-prepared variants of regional cuisines made with local ingredients, and I prefer to do so in a pleasant setting, … – and all of that typically means a meal that might be a bit more expensive than is otherwise available. But not always! And I do plan to splurge for dinner at least a few times. So any suggestions anyone has will be much appreciated.

➢ PalenQ

More welcome info!

Is the cliff above Montreux the Roches-de-Naye? I definitely plan to visit that spot – the views sound magnificent! I hadn’t considered walking down. Can you tell me more about that--how long it would likely take, how easy/hard, etc.?

When I leave Montreux, I’ll be heading to Gruyeres, but had planned go through Gstaad “en route” (I know its actually out of the way) just for the scenery. (I believe I got that idea from you!) That is the Golden Pass train route, isn’t it? Do you recommend a particular side of the train for the trip from Montreux to Gstaad? Or from Gstaad to Gruyeres?

I just checked into options for stopping at Roches-de-Naye as part of that trip, but if I’m reading the SBB site correctly, trains from Montreux to Gstaad don’t stop at Roches-de-Naye, so I’ll probably visit it separately after visiting the Chateau de Chillon. But maybe you mean a different cliff?

catcrazyaf

kja - yes, I love the color green! You don't even want to know how long ago I was in Lausanne - just after my college years, about 1968. That tells you what an impression it made on me. Every so often I play on the internet and "plan" a revisit there. So that's what I did for several hours again last nite - difficult to find an apartment there (I would base in Lausanne for a couple of weeks and wander and day-trip from there). I WILL get there again one day. So obviously, I have no restaurant suggestions for you but I just have to say that the beauty of the area and the city itself still makes my heart smile. I do wish you the very best trip. Every place I have been in Switzerland has been gorgeous and I'll try to restrain my envy. By the way, there is a poster on Tripadvisor named swandav (I think) who seems to be a Swiss expert and seems like she must have lived in Lausanne or Lac Lamen area - she's a wealth of helpful information. Go over there and ask a question or two. I'll be looking forward to hearing your adventures.

catcrazyaf

P.S. Just an additional thought!!!! Should I pack my suitcase and join you? (Written in jest).

kja

➢ catcrazyaf

I hope you return to Lausanne some day and that you enjoy the moments you spend thinking of doing so. In the meantime, you are welcome to travel with me vicariously, and I promise to raise a glass of wine to you while in Lausanne. (Your feet probably won’t be hurting as much at that moment as mine!)

BTW, swandav is also a Fodorite. I was pleased that she offered some comments on the first draft of these plans. So many people have offered such helpful input!

PalenQ

Is the cliff above Montreux the Roches-de-Naye? I definitely plan to visit that spot – the views sound magnificent! I hadn’t considered walking down. Can you tell me more about that--how long it would likely take, how easy/hard, etc.?>

Not the same rail route I am referring to - I believe the Rochers-de-Naye train runs a lot in tunnels, perhaps under the vineyards - the line I am talking about is the one that goes to Gstaad - the Golden Pass line - from Montreux you can take local trains up to a station right above the top of the vineyards and waltz back down to Montreux - lovely Lake Geneva if full view the whole zigzagging and stepped way down.

Not sure what Rochers-de-Naye trains shows you as I have not taken it but from that summit it could be a seriously hike down - don't know!

swandav2000

Hi all,

Came back here to see what progress you've been making on your plans. Looks like you have some good ideas going!! Some thoughts --

It takes an hour for the train to reach Rochers-de-Naye from Montreux, so the walk back downhill would take about 4-5 hours, at least, I think. There are lots of hikes you can take starting from R-d-N, if you think you have the time for that.

To go to the Rochers-de-Naye, you take a cogwheel train up to Caux and then to R-de-N. It is a different route entirely to go on the Golden Pass line -- that goes via Les Avants. You can see this easily using google maps.

Yes, the trip to Gstaad and Gruyeres is on the Golden Pass route, one of the two best scenic routes in Switzerland imo. You change at Montbovon to get to/from Gruyeres. It's clear on the Swiss rail site. There are no luggage lockers at Gruyeres or at Montbovon, so you may have to ship your cases at that point. Or, there is a coat cloak room at the cheese demonstration building next to the train station, and you could ask if you can leave your bag/s there (but it's not secure).

The scenery is better walking from Montreux toward Chillon rather than the reverse; as you go towards Chillon, your views will be all lake and mountain and countryside. The scenery as you walk toward Montreux is urban, as you walk toward the built-up town. So, I would definitely plan to walk TO Chillon.

catcrazy -- hi!! What a small world. Wanna know something?? I was in Montreux in 1968 (but I was only 13 . . ). I remember clearly the Jazz Fest in 1968. Bizarre, eh? Yes, it leaves a **huge** impression. I was there in boarding school, and because of that I now go back practically every year for two weeks. I always go in the fall to see the changing leaves. If you do make it back, and it's in the fall, definitely get in touch.

Have fun, y'all!

s

Ingo

You won't have enough time to hike down from Rochers-de-Naye. It's a 1,600 m elevation difference, takes about 4 hours, I'd say. And it's not worth the effort.

The train stop PalenQ refers to is probably Chernex, maybe Les Avants - but the latter is already relatively high up above the vineyards. A nice start for a hike down would be Caux or Glion, both stops on the train route up to Rochers-de-Naye.

I found the vineyards above Vevey more attractive for walks. An excellent viewpoint is Les Pleiades, accessible by train from Vevey. One stop along that route is Blonay, from there start nice walks down through the vineyards. Or take the funicular from Vevey up to Mont Pèlerin. The middle station Chardonne is also a good place to start a walk through the vineyards.

Ingo

Great minds think along, swandav ;-)

kja

Oh, dear. I should have realized that the cliff PalenQ mentioned was not the Rochers-de-Naye! My mistake. Many thanks to all of you for clarifying and for confirming that the walk from R-d-N would take too long for my purposes.

It seems that I’ll have a number of delightful options for pleasant downhill vineyard walks that I can choose on the fly, given the weather and the amount of time I devote to other priorities. I sincerely appreciate all the suggestions!


➢ PalenQ

Now that I have a better idea of what you meant, I can see why you recommended it! Thanks so much for mentioning it … and for putting up with my confusion.


➢ swandav

Thanks for checking back in! It’s reassuring to hear that you see some good ideas in my current plan. I’ve been the beneficiary of some truly wonderful advice from you and so many others, and I think my plan is much better (and getting better each day) as a result.

I plan on staying overnight in Gruyeres, so won’t need to worry about storing my suitcase. I appreciate that you made sure I was aware of the constraints and my options.

“…the Golden Pass route, one of the two best scenic routes in Switzerland imo” – May I ask what you consider to be the other most scenic route?

Rain or shine, I WILL walk TO the Chateau de Chillon rather than from it -- thanks!


➢ ingo

Thanks for the suggestions for walking through the vineyards above Vevey! I had been considering walks a bit further west, and will now plan to ensure that I begin my travels with information about multiple options so I can play it by ear.

swandav2000

Hi again,

The other scenic route that is among the best is the Bernina Express, particularly that portion from Pontresina to Poschiavo, which it appears you'll be taking on day 14.

Some other good walks through the vineyards are --

Chexbres to Rivaz (about 30 minutes). Take the train to Chexbres (change in Vevey), then just walk downhill until you get to the lake. Rivaz has a wonderful restaurant across the street from the lake called the Auberge du Rivaz. Then either take the train back or take the ferry back.

Lutry to Epesses or Rivaz. I adore the town of Lutry in itself. The walk from Lutry to Epesses or Rivaz will take about 2 or 3 hours.

Ingo -- yaaaaay! I love it when our thoughts agree!!

s

Ingo

Another vote for Lutry - love this charming tiny town.

I mentioned Vevey for walks in the vineyards because you and Pal talked about Montreux. I think these walks get better and better the further west from Montreux-Vevey you go (until Lutry).

PalenQ

Well I cannot imagine any other vineyards being more awesome than those that carpet the long steep hill to its east - the walk I did down was thru nothing but vines. I never heard of Lutry but I'll have to look it up next time in that lovely lovely area which besides looking to me more old-world than most of Germanic Switzerland is also French-speaking and French in feeling - very different from German or Italian or Romansch Switzerland.

Very telling thing to me on the Golden Pass train from Spiez to Montreux - we could easily tell when it entered the French part of Switzerland around Chateau d'Oex by the way the woodpiles were stacked - on the German side oh so evenly cut and stacked - every end the exact same length - but on the French side more haphazzardly cut and not stacked in a straight line!

kja

➢ swandav and
➢ ingo

I’m so glad you both mentioned Lutry! That’s the area I’ve been most seriously considering for my visit to the Lavaux vineyards – the stretch between Lutry and Cully.

One option would be to visit the vineyards from Lausanne starting in the late afternoon on the day I arrive there from Geneva (leaving Lausanne for Lutry by 17:00 or so at the latest, and preferably an hour or more earlier). If I do that, I believe it would be possible to spend an hour or so in Lutry, take the vineyard trail to Cully, stop briefly there, and still get back to Lausanne before sunset (which won’t be until after 21:00 when I’m there).

In case I feel pressed for time and so want only an hour for my time on foot, I’ve also been considering options for walking a smaller stretch of that trail, perhaps ending in Cully but starting in, say, Villette (but the train stop is by the lake, below the trail at that point?) or Grandvaux. I’m looking at that part as my possible short-option because of a Tripadvisor post by swandav that made me think that the trail between Lutry and Villette might not be quite as nice. (“I had to walk on a sidewalk next to the road for about half a mile between Villette and Lutry, yuk. … going into Lutry, the "trail" is really just some outcropping of rocks along the backside of the houses and villas.”)


➢ PalenQ

I loved your description of the transition from Germanic to French Switzerland, and will definitely pay attention to woodpiles as I move around!

You reminded me of a train trip I took many, many years ago from St. Petersburg to Helsinki. I couldn’t help but notice how different things were on one side of the border than the other. Thanks for bringing memories of that trip to my mind!

swandav2000

Hi again,

I believe the walk you quote me about is the lakeside trail, not the vineyard trail. I love lakes and usually try to find long stretches of walks next to them. I remember hoping to find one around Lutry but wasn't successful.

Yes, the vineyards are in the hills up above the lake, so it's best to get uphill a bit to enjoy them.

Yes, Villette is at the lakeside, as is Cully, so the vineyard walk might not be great. I think Villette to Grandvaux would be more "vineyard-y."

It would be a shame to miss Lutry though --

Take a good look using google maps, and you'll see what I mean.

Have fun!

s

kja

Have I just identified an unexpected problem or found an unexpected bonus?

I just realized that my “day 7”—the day on which I planned to start in Fribourg, visit Neuchatel’s Latenium, roam around Solothurn, and reach Basel—is a holiday (Corpus Christi) in these specific areas.

From what I’ve been able to learn in the last few hours, the effect would be greatest in Fribourg, where there is a “solemn procession” on that day. My plan for Fribourg was to arrive the prior day and spend a couple of hours exploring before dinner. For this particular day (Corpus Christi), I would probably just walk around a bit before leaving. So maybe this holiday would provide a wonderful opportunity to observe a venerated local tradtiion (even if just for an hour or so), as opposed to a serious disruption. Any insights?

So far (at least), I haven’t found any indication that the Latenium would be closed for Corpus Christi. For Solothurn, my primary goal was just to walk around a bit. (There are a few churches where I’d like to spend a few moments if they are open, but nothing that’s an itinerary-driver for me, at least so far.) And I’m not particularly concerned about Basel—I hadn’t expected to have any real time for sightseeing on this particular day in any event, and there’s so much to see that I should have some options even if I have some time and find that a few things are closed. Do any of you see problems for these locations?

So what are your thoughts—is this a wonderful opportunity to see the procession in Fribourg or a reason to re-think this part of my itinerary? Or something else...?

Thanks again!


➢ swandav

OK, now I understand those comments about your walk from Villette to Lutry! Thanks for clarifying. (And just to confirm: This thread and its antecedent prove beyond doubt that I can find a way to create confusion out of just about any comment, no matter how clear! Thanks for your patience.)

I still hope to spend a bit of time in Lutry, even if I end up deciding to shorten or curtail my time for walking in the area. In the “worst“ case, you and your incomparable fellow Fodorites have given me a lot of ideas about alternative walking trails through various vineyards edging Lake Geneva. I can’t say how much I appreciate all this information!

PalenQ

So what are your thoughts—is this a wonderful opportunity to see the procession in Fribourg or a reason to re-think this part of my itinerary? Or something else...?>

Well those types of things have always been amongst the highlights of my trips - your luck - take advantage of it - who knows Solothun's churches may be closed in the afternoon after morning mass?

Ingo

Definitely see the procession.

Well, Solothurn is just a great town overall. Unspoiled old town. City wall/gates, clock tower, fountains on small squares, the two churches ... two (?) manors nearby which are worth to see, but you won't have time for them; location is a bit of a distance from the town centre.

PalenQ

thanks Ingo for enlightening me about Soloturn - I passed thru there a few years ago and changed trains - took a brief look outside the station and did not see much - but I should have and will look around more - based on your impeccable endorsement!

kja

➢ PalenQ and
➢ Ingo

I will view the procession in Fribourg as a welcome and unexpected bonus. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

For Solothurn, I realize that I might miss the interiors of churches (though I’ll check once there – one never knows!). And even if I can’t see them, I am looking forward to walking around the Old Town.

BTW, PalenQ, you might check out some of ingo’s stunning pics:
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/4166c/a8840/

PalenQ

Yes Solothun looks neat and a river like the Aare running thru it always makes a Swiss town nicer - will check it out next trip! Thanks to Ingo.