Overnight train from Paris to Rome Please help!

You're muddling up several different services. Go to www.seat61.com to find more than enough information about all European trains.

Check out these websites: http://www.seat61.com/Italy.htm and http://www.thello.com/

Currently there is no Paris-Rome night train service. The direct Artesia night trains between France and Italy, which were a partnership between Trenitalia and SNCF, were discontinued in December.

Trenitalia is now offering Paris-Venice night train service with a new partner, but it won't offer Paris-Rome service until June.

If you're traveling before June, you have two choices:

1. Take the Paris-Venice night train as far as Milan and take a high-speed Eurostar Italia train from Milan to Rome.

2. Fly from Paris to Rome on a budget airline. Either easyJet or Vueling would serve you well. Fares on Ryanair can be cheaper, but it uses outlying airports which take time (and money) to reach.

If you want to know how to get the best fares for Paris-Milan on the night train and Milan-Rome on an ES Italia train, just ask. However, flying on a budget airline will be much cheaper.

We are traveling in July so hopefully that means we'll have an overnight train?! I will check out the websites listed above. Thank you for the help thus far!

Your confused about reseller companies that are mainly pass sellers and the actual countries train companies.

Trenitalia is the Italian train company.
http://www.trenitalia.com/cms/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=ad1ce14114bc9110VgnVCM10000080a3e90aRCRD

I would look at flying Easy Jet from either Rome airport (FCO or CIA) to Paris Orly. Prices tend to run 30€ to about 75€ depending on day and time.

Trains will be much more expensive and require changes. A two person cabin from Milan will be several hundred euro. The Rome/Milan train will add about 75-90€ to the cost (per person).

I feel like flying will cause more time lost then an overnight train would. Is this agreed upon?

We are traveling in July and plan to take the train overnight. We are leaving Paris to head into Rome. Is there a specific company we should be booking the train through? I was confused on the different sites. Thanks again for the help!

It's not 'agreed upon'.

If you are a light sleeper, an overnight train can be a problem. If you hate sharing a cabin with strangers, it can be expensive to have a private cabin. The train can be delayed severely (two hours late last time I used the Artesia to Florence).

The company that runs it is now called Thello and is a consortium inlcuding Trenitalia. See the weblinks above, and for reviews see the Man in Seat 61 (wwww.seat61.com) - he has recently used the Venice train and gives it an OK rating.

Booking will open nearer the time - not sure if 90 or 120 days.

Why not just take an evening flight and then get a good night's sleep on the other side in your hotel? You give up an evening, but I think overnight train leave generally in the evening anyways and make several stops throughout the night which is disruptive. Then you still have to get to your hotel in the morning...I'd just fly and get all the travel out of the way and wake up refreshed and ready to start my day in Rome.

I feel like flying will cause more time lost then an overnight train would. Is this agreed upon?

Some people love an overnight train ride; others find it grueling at worst or unpleasant at best. It's a very long journey from Paris to Rome. When you arrive in Rome in the morning, you'll have to navigate a new city on possibly a very bad night of sleep (or you may sleep like a rock!). You may not be able to check into your hotel that early. As you've seen, you may have to change trains. For me, half a day or so spent on a direct budget flight between those cities would absolutely be preferable. I'm a light sleeper and was pretty miserable the day after I took an overnight train. Others have done the cost comparisons for you.

Trenitalia is the Italian train system, and you can book tickets there directly. seat61.com is a train information site. There's NO need to go through RailEurope.

Some major cities, Paris included, have several train stations. Trains going similar directions generally leave from the same station. Trains from Paris to Italy leave from Gare de Lyon.

Can anyone provide some suggestions in terms of what to do for first-time travelers to Europe and our first time using the train?>

Yes these fine sites - www.seat61.com as mentioned above and also www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com - great primers for planning novice rail trip - and of course for the overnight train www.thello.com - the company operating the train. Currently the overnight train only goes from Paris to Milan and terminates in Venice. Sometime later this year I believe direct overnight trains will run between Paris and Rome and Florence - much as the old defunct Artesia overnight trains did for years until removed this December. there have been a snafu with Italian and French railways with Italians relegating it to a secondary Milan station I believe, etc. But the trains are spanking new and hopefully an improvement over the antiquated and MUCH complained about Artesia trains.

You save the cost of a night in a hotel and also cost of getting out to airports and in front them - could well be cheaper all in all than flying that is if going to Milan or Venice but currently for Rome you have to buy a Milan to Rome ticket as well as I think www.thello.com may not provide thru ticketing?

I know there has been alot of Raileurope trashing here over the years but I think one can now purchase discounted tickets thru them for a pretty reasonable fee. So I'd suggest calling them or checking with their website to get better info on price.

I enjoy an overnight train trip and IMO it can be less hassle than a flight. I usually take an ambien and sleep fine and have a plan for when I arrive into the city in the morning - most hotels will store luggage for you if your room is not ready.

You should be able to get an idea of time / costs by looking at the Paris / Milan / Rome option - hopefully by July you will be able to go straight thru to Rome.

>>>I feel like flying will cause more time lost then an overnight train would. Is this agreed upon?<<<

No, I don't think most of us would agree. First, you have to take a train from Rome to Milan to even catch the overnight train. Rome/Milan will take 3 1/2 hours on the fastest train and cost 91€ for second class each.

Next, you have to catch the overnight train from Milan to Paris which doesn't depart until almost midnight. Travel time is 8 1/2 hours so I'm not sure how much sleep you would actually get. Perhaps if you are one of those people that can fall asleep the minute you hit the pillow? Price is 144€ each for a 2 person compartment. If you are willing to share a couchette with 2-4 strangers, you can save a few euro as there are some discounted fares for couchettes.

You would book this on Trenitalia as you are departing from Italy. You can't book more than four months in advance.

Easy Jet flight takes 2 hours and about 50€ each.
Train requires changes and takes 12 hours plus connection time allowance. Cost is 235€ each.

If we fly we would have to essentially get a cab to the airport and then another cab once we arrived in Rome to our hotel, correct? What is the overall consensus on us taking an overnight train (I'm told it will run straight thru from Paris to Rome in July) or taking a flight? I'm very torn at this point!

>I feel like flying will cause more time lost then an overnight train would. Is this agreed upon?<<<

should be because your time 'lost' on the train is at night, not during the day as you would lose several hours of day time by flying - at the expense of sightseeing perhaps in Rome. But if you are the minority IME - small minority of folks who cannot sleep with the slightest bit of noise then no as you would sleep the next day away. the noise problem is IMO often overblown by folks who probably have never taken an overnight train - heck many hotel rooms I've been in have been noiser than overnight trains.

Renee --
I've done both and here's my take (and obviously personal preference) -- If I'm flying from the states and heading to Rome first, I have to fly into CDG 1st, so it doesn't make a lot of sense to me not to just take the next flight to Rome. I'm already at the airport.

However, if I'm in Paris and want to make the most of my day time, I'd take the overnight train.

But I LOVE train travel, especially overnight train travel in a compartment. I wouldn't hesitate to try out the new upcoming overnight train from Paris to Rome. I'm a light sleeper, but find the gentle noise and sway of the train puts me right to sleep. Sometimes I wake up when the train is pulling into a station, and I can peer out and see where we are. Then as soon as the train pulls out of the station, I'm lulled back to sleep.

In order to figure out whether it will work for you, you might want to try to find out how many stops the new train will make in the night, and factor in your sleeping habits.

Not sure you will get a consensus but kybourbon does not add in some of the costs and time factors (such as cabs to airport, baggage fees?)that would be invloved in the discount airline. Personally I think an overnight train is fun once in a trip - we have shared couchettes with people and it was interesting - we have also booked our own compartment. I think you will find posters here lobbying for their preferred mode of travel but in the end you'll have to decide what works best for you.

Thanks everyone! We are really leaning towards the train. Here are the specifics of our trip for everyone to understand why we want to do this. We are arriving in Paris on July 16th and will be there until July 21. On the 21st of July (in the evening), we were planning to take the overnight train and arrive in Rome early in the morning on July 22nd. Then, we'll be in Rome from July 22 until the 29th.

So, we are essentially traveling from the U.S. to Paris, staying for 7 days, then overnight to Rome, then 7 more days then home. Any other feedback would be great!

I can sleep with noise and so can my husband. I imagine we'll be tired from the day as well so I think it should be okay. Does anyone recommend traveling on the train with just us two or with four people? I found that two people is more expensive but I'm also paranoid a little about sleeping with strangers in the same area...thoughts?

I like night trains. However, I can sleep anywhere, even in a reclining seat.

All couchettes are the same size. The only difference is in the number of bunks that are pulled down. Based on my experience in a 6-person couchette, I wish I had booked a 4-person couchette. Having strangers in the same space with me wasn't an issue, but there would have been more room for both people and luggage in a 4-person couchette. If you need privacy and are willing to pay for it, you can book a 2-bed sleeper.

Here is a fare breakdown for the current Paris-Venice night train. (Fares are likely to be the same for Paris-Rome when that train is up and running.)

C4 couchette: Standard fare of €120. Go fare of €96. Smart fare of €55.

Double seat compartment (2-bed sleeper): Standard fare of €180. Go fare of €145. Smart fares aren't available for sleepers.

Assuming the train will be up and running in June, you will be able to book up to 90 days in advance in English on the Trenitalia site. You will be able to book up to 120 days in advance on the Thello site (French only). You could use Google translate if you can't handle French.

However, if you take an early evening flight, you'll still be able to spend most of the day in Paris. Or take an early morning flight and have the afternoon and evening in Rome.

It's your call.

You could easily spend 180€ for a night in a hotel in Rome....you get the long-trip transportation thrown in at the same time, so hey! That's a bargain. Now, we limit our lodging costs to under 100€ per night, but that is STILL a good price for transportation Paris to Rome for two people with luggage. Even better if you get the 2 bed sleeper for 145€. Plus it is more romantic. I'd go for the privacy of a 2-bed sleeper.

As you can see, there are ways to rationalize little luxuries, and this IS a vacation, so go for it.

uhoh_busted,

For the record, the fares I quoted above are for each person, not for two people.

The flight from Fiumicino (Rome) to Orly airport is only two and a half hours.Traveling many hours by train is not fun and is very tiring..

Believe me I had my share of doing that in my teenager's years.
When I travel between these two cities I always fly..

But of course is your trip and you will decide what is best for you.
Buona Fortuna and Buon Viaggio..

>>>If we fly we would have to essentially get a cab to the airport and then another cab once we arrived in Rome to our hotel, correct? <<<

You have to get from the hotel to the train station so it's the same thing. In Rome, the train from the airport is 14€ or the shuttle bus is 4€. In Paris, the reason I suggested Orly is it's the closest airport to the city center and on public transport. Cheap and fast to get into the city.

>>>Not sure you will get a consensus but kybourbon does not add in some of the costs and time factors (such as cabs to airport, baggage fees?)that would be invloved in the discount airline<<<

Actually, I did factor in bags as most of the fares I looked at for random dates were only 30-35€ (didn't know her travel dates at that point). My estimate above I said 50€. As mentioned above, you have to get to and from train stations just like you have to get to and from airports.

I had your cities backwards so flight prices can be different. The overnight train from Paris to Milan arrives at 5:30 am. That's enough to make me not take it (I'm not a morning person especially without a shower).

>>>But if you are the minority IME - small minority of folks who cannot sleep with the slightest bit of noise then no as you would sleep the next day away. the noise problem is IMO often overblown by folks who probably have never taken an overnight train - heck many hotel rooms I've been in have been noiser than overnight trains<<<

I don't think noise will be as much of a problem on the Thello. On many overnight trains, there seem to be lots of stops and the darn brakes are always squealing. The Thello seems to only make one stop so shouldn't be a problem.

>>>Even better if you get the 2 bed sleeper for 145€. Plus it is more romantic. I'd go for the privacy of a 2-bed sleeper.<<<

That's 145€ each isn't it? 290€ for two?

I haven't used the Thello website to book. Has anyone on this thread tried? The old Artesia website didn't let you book through them and it appears you can't select US and enter your passport # on the Thello site either.

I would book on the French train website if you want any discounts as you won't get them from RailEurope and Trenitalia requires pick up in Italy.

Since your dates are too far out, no one can tell the discount train prices you may or may not get, only regular prices.

FYI - I started a thread months ago about the new Thello service. Man in Seat 61 posted on it that you can't buy the tickets through RailEurope or SNCF French Railways. He said only through Thello and Trenitalia. Since you can't pick up your tickets in Italy and Thello doesn't seem to process US to enter passports, I don't know what your solution would be. Here's the thread. Perhaps things have changed since then?
http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/new-thello-overnight-train-italyfrance.cfm

To reiterate:

you can use a budget airline (be careful which airports are used) and can look them up using www.whichbudget.com or www.skyscanner.net Flying would be the fastest option but also be aware that you will have to get to and from the airport (more mone); be limited in the amount of checked luggage you can bring; spend time checking in and going through security..the usual going by air "issues"

the train will take you from city center to city center (yes, you have to figure out which train station in Paris just as you have to figure out which airport in Paris)

Raileurope is a North American marketing arm and is wholly owned by a combination of the French and Swiss national railroads. It sells tickets and passes; it does NOT run trains

<<<I would book on the French train website if you want any discounts as you won't get them from RailEurope and Trenitalia requires pick up in Italy.>>>

I just checked the Trenitalia site. For this night train Trenitalia offers the "Ticketless with payment receipt via email" option even though the trip starts in France.

>>>I just checked the Trenitalia site. For this night train Trenitalia offers the "Ticketless with payment receipt via email" option even though the trip starts in France.<<<

That's new then. Whenever I've purchased international tickets the past from Trenitalia, they've required pick-up at a station with self-serve kiosk.

NORMALLY, Trenitalia.com only does 'ticketless' ticket delivery for its own domestic Italian trains, for international trains it's a case of ticket collection at the station, but only in Italy.

But this is the new 'Thello' train, run as the first ever OPEN ACCESS commercial train into France run entirely by Trenitalia (with partner veolia) with NO French Railways (SNCF) involvement. SNCF cannot and will not sell tickets for this thello train, Trenitalia has HAD to enable e-ticketing in both directions.

Similarly, the Paris-Turin-Milan TGVs are now run entirely by SNCF with NO Trenitalia involvement, Trenitalia will NOT sell tickets for these trains, so SNCF have had to enable e-ticketing in both directions at voyages-sncf.com or www.tgv-europe.com

Politically, SNCF and Trenitalia are at each other's throats!

Welcome to the new competitive non-co-operative open-access world of European Europe!

Here are the prices for a flight with "easyjet" from FCO to ORLY..how can you beat these prices?



Lowest outbound fares
February €38.99 .
March €36.99 .
April €37.99 .
May €35.99 .
June €35.99 .
July €35.99 .
August €35.99 .
September €35.99

Just to give you an idea of what you might get if you decide to book a multi-bed compartment - on one trip from Barcelona to Paris my daughter and I were with two young French girls who had gone down to Barcelona for what sounded like a pretty wild weekend. Their bags for the weekend were larger than the bags we were traveling with for two weeks. On another trip my husband and I booked a 4 bed couchette from Amaterdam to Basel I think - we spent alot of time chatting with a German man about US politics, eventually the guys went to the bar car for some whiskey. The 4th berth was evidently for a late boarder that we never even saw. Train travel is really a good way to interact with the locals.

One thing to be aware of luggage space is pretty limited esp. in the multiple berth compartments and be prepared to lift up your bags. My daughter and I usually have to help each other wrestle up our bags but you don't want to have great big ones!

Ah the ubiquitous loud snorers in multi-person compartments!

We are really set on the train. I've read your posts about them and the different options so I guess my questions are the following:
1. We are flying in from the U.S. to Paris (CDG), what would be the best train location to take if we plan to stay close in the city (by the Eiffel Tower, etc)?
2. "For this night train Trenitalia offers the "Ticketless with payment receipt via email" option even though the trip starts in France." Does this mean we can book through here and get our tickets via email?
3. Trenitalia.com is the website and this would be the best train to take from Paris to Rome? Any other tips about this website we should know about?
4. We are 158 days away from our trip so when should we book?

Thanks again for the help, I'm actually kind of excited for the train!

1. The night train departs from Gare de Lyon. You can get there quickly by metro and/or RER from anywhere in central Paris. Stay anywhere you find a hotel you like, so long as it's in central Paris.

2. Yes.

3. See the post by the Man in Seat 61 above. The train will be operated by Thello which is a new partnership between Trenitalia (Italian national rail) and veolia. SNCF (French national rail) is out of the picture. Thello already is operating the Paris-Venice night train.

4. Assuming that the Paris-Rome night train will be up and running by June, you will be able to book up to 90 days in advance at trenitalia.com. The site is available in English. You can book at thello.com (French only) up to 120 days in advance. If you can't handle French, use Google Translate to book in English.

Here are the prices for a flight with "easyjet" from FCO to ORLY..how can you beat these prices?>

with Easy Jet did you add in all the extra fees and bus out to airport and in?

and once the Thello goes Paris to Rome it will probably offer say 49 euro fares (current says from 35 euros I believe to Milan)?

Plus flying you lose a half day of sightseeing - the overnight train lose nothing and save on cost of a hotel - this is the KEY reason the train should be cheaper than flying - no hotel cost for that night except the train fare, which should approximate the air fare for early bookers at least.

For a zoomable map of the the Paris metro and RER system, go here: http://tinyurl.com/6xmvms4.

Surprised the SNCF or French Railways are allowing Thello trains even into the Gare du Lyon - the old Artesia trains were relegated to the nearby Paris-Bercy station, actually an extension in many ways to Gare du Lyon - daytime SNCF TGVs going into Milan are I believe relegated to a secondary station there.

Ah the French and Italian train companies battling it out!

Tim - I think #1 she was asking how to get into Paris from CDG, not the night train station.

>>>4. Assuming that the Paris-Rome night train will be up and running by June, you will be able to book up to 90 days in advance at trenitalia.com. <<<

You should be able to purchase four months in advance on Trenitalia like you can for their other tickets. The problem will be Trenitalia's slowness in loading summer schedules which start around June 12. They might have these particular trains loaded early, but it's possible it will be late May or early June.

>>>and once the Thello goes Paris to Rome it will probably offer say 49 euro fares (current says from 35 euros I believe to Milan)?<<<<

Those Smart Fare discounts are only for 4 and 6 berth couchettes. Does anyone have a link to info that this train is actually going to start in July?

kybourbon, I believe you're right about Renee wanting to know how to get from CDG to Paris.

Renee, the quick answer is to take the RER B from CDG into Paris and then transfer to the metro and/or other RER lines to get to the station closest to your hotel. (See the map link I gave above.)

Right now it's possible to book the Paris-Venice Thello train up to 90 days in advance on the Trenitalia site and up to 120 days on the Thello site. It's only a guess, but I assume that also will be true for Paris-Rome.

Yes, Trenitalia's well-deserved reputation for being slow in uploading their semi-annual timetable changes could affect how far in advance a person is able to book a train for a July departure date.

Thank you Tim and Kybourbon. My question is if we are staying relatively close to the city in Paris what would be the best Paris train station to depart from? I checked Trenitalia and it was asking me for a specific location. I am also confused with that site on times. It is asking for times in 00:00 to 24:00. Does that mean I can choose which time we leave? I assumed times would be set...?

I guess at this point I will have to wait until 90 days out to book our overnight train. I am just worried that the Paris-Rome train won't be up and running and then what will we do? We plan to book our hotels this weekend (7 days at a hotel in Paris and 7 days at a hotel in Rome) so I am worried about not having confirmation of this train trip.

Any suggestions? Also, what is the difference between booking the train trip on Trenitalia or Thello? Thanks again! Appreciate all the help

Most likely there is not really a choice of departure stations - I would guess the train will depart from the same station as the Paris-Milan run. It will have a set / once an eveing departure time but when you are in the Trenitalia site you are being given the opportunity to see other departure times (does this make sense?)

As far as hotels you might want to make a back up plan and look at how long this trip will take you if the overnight does not happen. Most hotels can be cancelled with at least 24 hours notice - so you could look at the daytime run between Paris and Rome and choose an overnight and cancel if you have to. If I have a minute I'll look at the schedules and post some details.

On train stations: the Thello from Paris to Milan leaves from Gare Lyon. The old Artesia (now being replaced with the new line) left from Gare Bercy overnight to Rome.

You won't choose the station you leave from or the time. Both are set. I don't know if Trenitalia does general searches. Other websites, like the German railroad, does general searches so you can select the one within the timeframe you want. Once you have that info., then you can plug the info (location and time) in the Trenitalia info request -- if you can't figure out the website.

If the Paris-Rome train is not up and running, I would suggest you take the Thello overnight from Paris to Milan, then the high speed train (Eurostar Italia aka ES Italia) for the 3 1/2 hour trip from Milan to Rome (it's nice!). Check out Man in Seat 61's youtube on the Paris to Milan (or is it Milan to Paris, I forget!) overnight train to see what the new train looks like. The overnight from Paris to Milan leaves from Gare Lyon.

Here's Man in Seat 61's link to his trip -- he took the Paris to Venice and got off in Brescia:
http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/paris-to-venice-on-the-new-thello-sleeper-train.cfm

what surfergirl says is a great back up plan if the overnight to Rome has not started up

why would getting off in Brescia, if going to Rome, be any better than Milan - in fact it would seem to be worse - if going to Rome change in Milan Central to high-speed direct trains to Rome - Brescia is really a major detour it would seem if going to Rome from Paris.

The Paris-Venice Thello night train departs from Gare de Lyon. I assume that when it is up and running the Paris-Rome Thello night train will do the same.

Yes, there will be a set departure time. The site asks you to enter a departure time so it can show you all trains, if any, that depart around that time and forward a few hours.

what would be the best Paris train station to depart from?
You don't actually get a choice, despite what the web site looks like. Trains leave from specific stations depending on their destination. As several have mentioned, the train you want (in fact, all trains to Italy) will leave from Gare de Lyon. On Trenitalia's site I believe it's listed as "Paris Lyon."

It is asking for times in 00:00 to 24:00. Does that mean I can choose which time we leave? I assumed times would be set...?
For an overnight train, you won't have many options. Just pick a time (say 13:00) and it will show you the options you have for that day. The date is the more important thing.

If you're set on taking the train, Surfergirl's plan sounds good. If your option if the Paris-Rome overnight doesn't happen is a flight, just book an extra night at your hotel in either city, making sure you can cancel. You'll know about the train in plenty of time to do so.

@PalenQ -- I didn't say getting off in Brescia would be better than getting off in Milan. I said "Man in Seat 61's link to his trip -- he took the Paris to Venice and got off in Brescia".

The purpose of the link and the comment was to give the OP a look at the new train!

Yes but OP wants to go to Rome and getting off at Brescia would make no sense to OP - fine what Man in Seat 61 says but totally irrelevant to OP. and I read the link and can find no mention of getting off in Brescia? ???? please clarify for me.

Paragraph 4 of Man in Seat 61's blog, which reads as follows:
"The sleeper train was platformed in good time, it left promptly and arrived at Brescia (where we left the train) spot on time. Staff were all new, and were friendly and helpful in both the sleepers and restaurant car." [Emphasis added.]

Whichever way you go, plane or train, travel light.

Travel light.

Travel light.

There is really no need to carry the kitchen sink with you for a two week trip.

Travelling light allows you more flexibility in changing your plans at the last moment if necessary.

to get from CDG to Gare de Lyon, you take the RER B into Paris, get off at the Gare du Nord, change over to the D line for the Gare de Lyon.

Here's a color-coded map. It's pretty easy:

http://parisbytrain.com/files/2008/05/rer.pdf

Use the parisbytrain website to get information and to plot your way through the maze of Paris trains, local trains and even the metro systems. It's an invaluable website:

http://parisbytrain.com/charles-de-gaulle-airport-cdg-to-paris-by-train/

Surfgirl - sorry but I still fail to see the point in getting off a Brescia? And do what? Why? I have been to Brescia and though a fairly nice old town I would never recommend it over a zillion other Italian towns for the novice Italian traveler.

>>>PalenQ on Feb 17, 12 at 12:28pm
Surfgirl - sorry but I still fail to see the point in getting off a Brescia?<<<

Yes, you are failing to see the point. Surfgirl was only informing the OP about Man in Seat 61's trip report from Paris to Brescia so the OP could read about the train ride, not telling her to get off any particular stop.

Surfergirl is not telling the OP or anyone else to get off at Brescia. All she was saying was that the Man in Seat 61 took the Paris-Venice overnight train and posted a video about it (side note: he got off at Brescia rather than going all the way to Venice).

Great minds post simultaneously, kybourbon.

Great minds don't get off at Brescia.

Flying is the best and quickest way to Travel from Paris to Rome.

Here's Man in Seat 61's link to his trip -- he took the Paris to Venice and got off in Brescia

OK I finally get it - that was a title and not a recommendation - and yes great minds do not get off at Brescia, I agree! I am a little slow on the upstake but it was rather poorly stated and seemed to suggest getting off at Brescia to go to Rome.