Hamburg, Cologne or Frankfurt
Dec 29th, 2012, 08:07 PM
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Hamburg, Cologne or Frankfurt
Hello again,
To catch you up, my wife and I will be travelling mainly through Germany, Austria and Prague for six weeks during May and June 2013.
I thought we had the majority of Germany covered with out planned 25 days there. However, on further investigation I found that we will be seeing neither the Rhine River nor the Black Forest areas.
Currently our itinerary has us spending our final 3 nights in Germany visiting Hamburg before heading to Cologne for a quick train change and on to Bruges.
The only city on our itinerary that I am not really au fait with is Hamburg. So my question is:
Should we still stay in Hamburg for the 3 nights and forego the Rhine and Black Forest, or should we:
1. Spend the 3 nights in Cologne and take day trips along the Rhine and Heidelberg and then continue our trip from there to Bruges, or
2. Spend the 3 nights in Frankfurt where there are quite a number of day trips available to see the Rhine, Baden-Baden in the Black Forest and Heidelberg, as well as a short trip to Cologne to see the Cathedral etc.
We have heard that Hamburg is a bustling city and is big on night life. Our travelling habits are more about lots of sightseeing and lots of walking through the day and then we are usually in bed by 9pm. Given our travel habits, I am not sure that Hamburg would hold as much interest for us as perhaps visiting Cologne, Heidelberg, Baden-Baden and the Rhine / Moselle River region.
Any thoughts please?
To catch you up, my wife and I will be travelling mainly through Germany, Austria and Prague for six weeks during May and June 2013.
I thought we had the majority of Germany covered with out planned 25 days there. However, on further investigation I found that we will be seeing neither the Rhine River nor the Black Forest areas.
Currently our itinerary has us spending our final 3 nights in Germany visiting Hamburg before heading to Cologne for a quick train change and on to Bruges.
The only city on our itinerary that I am not really au fait with is Hamburg. So my question is:
Should we still stay in Hamburg for the 3 nights and forego the Rhine and Black Forest, or should we:
1. Spend the 3 nights in Cologne and take day trips along the Rhine and Heidelberg and then continue our trip from there to Bruges, or
2. Spend the 3 nights in Frankfurt where there are quite a number of day trips available to see the Rhine, Baden-Baden in the Black Forest and Heidelberg, as well as a short trip to Cologne to see the Cathedral etc.
We have heard that Hamburg is a bustling city and is big on night life. Our travelling habits are more about lots of sightseeing and lots of walking through the day and then we are usually in bed by 9pm. Given our travel habits, I am not sure that Hamburg would hold as much interest for us as perhaps visiting Cologne, Heidelberg, Baden-Baden and the Rhine / Moselle River region.
Any thoughts please?
Dec 29th, 2012, 09:09 PM
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I really like Cologne. One of Europe's finest cathedrals and some great museums. I'm not usually a fan of Pop/Modern art, but I really enjoyed the collection at the Museum Ludwig. The Wallraf-Richartz Museum has a great collection of paintings and other art and I was really impressed after my visit. You can buy a 48 hour pass to all the cities municipal museums for 28 Euro for an entire family and it's really worth it.
I've been to Frankfurt a few times and remember it as more of a business/financial city. They do have a great zoo.
I only spent a day in Hamburg, but think your assessment is spot on.
Personally, I'd hop the train in Hamburg and spend my time in Cologne.
Good luck and have a great time.
I've been to Frankfurt a few times and remember it as more of a business/financial city. They do have a great zoo.
I only spent a day in Hamburg, but think your assessment is spot on.
Personally, I'd hop the train in Hamburg and spend my time in Cologne.
Good luck and have a great time.
Dec 29th, 2012, 09:34 PM
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I liked Hamburg very much. I only stayed 24 hours, but wished I had another day.
The harbor was something to see, lot of green areas, nice restaurants and shops.
Unfortunately, did not get a chance to experience the nightlife.
Not been to Cologne or Frankfurt.
The harbor was something to see, lot of green areas, nice restaurants and shops.
Unfortunately, did not get a chance to experience the nightlife.
Not been to Cologne or Frankfurt.
Dec 29th, 2012, 10:16 PM
#4
Haven't been to Hamburg although I would like to visit at some point.
Spent a few nights in Cologne and wasn't thrilled. Liked the Dom and the cafes by the river. Not much else.
I liked the Rhine river towns much more. Also, liked Heidelburg for a couple of nights.
Spent a few nights in Cologne and wasn't thrilled. Liked the Dom and the cafes by the river. Not much else.
I liked the Rhine river towns much more. Also, liked Heidelburg for a couple of nights.
Dec 30th, 2012, 01:59 PM
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I've been to all three. Hamburg is fine. It's a different kind of city to Frankfurt or Cologne. None of the three are beautiful in that medieval kind of way, having all been razed in WWII, but they all have their selling points. Hamburg is elegant in parts. It has the harbour (of which you can do a tour), and day trips to Bremen and Lübeck if it gets less interesting, or even up to the North Sea for a change of pace - if you are going in summer you might consider finding out about the horse-drawn carriages (the Wattwagen) that carry people across the beaches at low tide. Hamburg is markedly North German in culture and atmosphere and food. It's different to Berlin, if you're going there, so don't worry, there will be a contrast. And unlike the other too there are quite a few big parks in Hamburg (Planten un Blomen is one, which has the biggest Japanese garden in Europe). It is also a very cosmopolitan city.
Cologne has the cathedral, museums, and there is obviously a thread on daytrips from it at the moment. But it's not a pretty cityscape, apart from that amazing cathedral. Frankfurt, which has had recent threads about daytrips too, is the only city in Germany with skyscrapers, but also has little pockets of tourist interest. You can see the Römer and the museums in Frankfurt, drink apple wine in Sachsenhausen or go back in time in Hoechst (the old part, not the modern shopping street, which is pretty blah). And obviously all three have good shopping opportunities (I especially like Cologne for this).
So which would I choose? I'd probably still go with Hamburg because it's the path less trodden and you are less likely to get there in future. If you are changing trains in Cologne you can just nip outside the train station and see the cathedral - stow your luggage in the station and go up to the top of the cathedral for amazing views and admire the vastness of it all. Then you will have seen the most special part of that city and not missed out on the contrast with Hamburg too. Save Frankfurt for another time - because it's a European hub it's not unusual to fly in and out of there and you will get the Rhein-Main experience another time on a stopover.
Lavandula
Cologne has the cathedral, museums, and there is obviously a thread on daytrips from it at the moment. But it's not a pretty cityscape, apart from that amazing cathedral. Frankfurt, which has had recent threads about daytrips too, is the only city in Germany with skyscrapers, but also has little pockets of tourist interest. You can see the Römer and the museums in Frankfurt, drink apple wine in Sachsenhausen or go back in time in Hoechst (the old part, not the modern shopping street, which is pretty blah). And obviously all three have good shopping opportunities (I especially like Cologne for this).
So which would I choose? I'd probably still go with Hamburg because it's the path less trodden and you are less likely to get there in future. If you are changing trains in Cologne you can just nip outside the train station and see the cathedral - stow your luggage in the station and go up to the top of the cathedral for amazing views and admire the vastness of it all. Then you will have seen the most special part of that city and not missed out on the contrast with Hamburg too. Save Frankfurt for another time - because it's a European hub it's not unusual to fly in and out of there and you will get the Rhein-Main experience another time on a stopover.
Lavandula
Dec 30th, 2012, 06:25 PM
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Thank you all for your very informative comments.
Lavandula, thanks for your valuable input having been to all three. As I mentioned, I wasn't particularly worried about the cities of Cologne or Frankfurt as much as the proximity to the Rhine, Heidelberg and the Black Forest. But you quite rightly explained that all of these areas might better be done at another time when we could fly directly into Frankfurt.
Thanks again for all your help.
Lavandula, thanks for your valuable input having been to all three. As I mentioned, I wasn't particularly worried about the cities of Cologne or Frankfurt as much as the proximity to the Rhine, Heidelberg and the Black Forest. But you quite rightly explained that all of these areas might better be done at another time when we could fly directly into Frankfurt.
Thanks again for all your help.
Dec 30th, 2012, 07:18 PM
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I guess if you are comparing Hamburg then with the middle Rhine gorge or with Heidelberg you aren't really comparing apples with oranges. Hamburg is a big city experience, which the other two obviously aren't, if your real reason for going to Frankfurt or Cologne is to see towns and cities outside of them. Both the Rhine and Heidelberg will win you plenty of picturesque buildings, although Heidelberg has some detractors here on Fodor's. I think it is quite pretty, though, and there is a castle you can visit, with the world's largest wine barrel, and a zoo. Red sandstone buildings. Ditto the middle Rhine gorge, it gets a lot of tourist interest because it's picturesque and has many castles, some of which are even intact. As I mentioned there are some pretty good threads going about those and at the risk of repeating the information there I'll let you do a search on those for yourself.
I won't comment on the Black Forest as I've only been through there once (for two days), on our way to the Allgäu, and I don't really feel I know enough about it to compare. But again, there are plenty of small towns there with Fachwerk (half-timbered houses) to pique your interest, if this is your true interest. If you feel you are missing out because there are so many threads on areas like the Rhine, well, they do deserve attention, no question, but there are also quite a few people on Fodor's who know those areas well and so there is a natural bias towards them, part of the serendipity of the forum. We used to have one or two people who knew Hamburg well (and I don't count myself as one of those people, I know the Rhein-Main area well) but they pretty much stopped posting over the years. You can still do a search, they had some good opinions on restaurants and hotels.
But if you have to make a hard decision, I guess I would also take into consideration how well each stop would flow with the rest of your trip and whether it would add hours or days onto your travelling time. You need a map to make that decision.
Frankfurt is sort of the outlier in that regard, Cologne the most convenient to Bruges.
Lavandula
I won't comment on the Black Forest as I've only been through there once (for two days), on our way to the Allgäu, and I don't really feel I know enough about it to compare. But again, there are plenty of small towns there with Fachwerk (half-timbered houses) to pique your interest, if this is your true interest. If you feel you are missing out because there are so many threads on areas like the Rhine, well, they do deserve attention, no question, but there are also quite a few people on Fodor's who know those areas well and so there is a natural bias towards them, part of the serendipity of the forum. We used to have one or two people who knew Hamburg well (and I don't count myself as one of those people, I know the Rhein-Main area well) but they pretty much stopped posting over the years. You can still do a search, they had some good opinions on restaurants and hotels.
But if you have to make a hard decision, I guess I would also take into consideration how well each stop would flow with the rest of your trip and whether it would add hours or days onto your travelling time. You need a map to make that decision.
Frankfurt is sort of the outlier in that regard, Cologne the most convenient to Bruges.Lavandula
Dec 30th, 2012, 08:36 PM
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Hello Lavandula,
Thanks again for your comments. I'm sorry I didn't explain better about middle Rhine versus City visiting. It might make more sense if I explain what we are visiting in Germany.
Munich - 4 nights
Rothenburg ob der Tauber - 2 nights
Garmisch-Partenkirchen - 4 nights
Berchtesgaden - 4 nights
(then travelling thru Austria and Prague)
Dresden - 3 nights
Berlin - 4 nights
Our plan was then to spend 3 nights in Hamburg before catching a train to Bruges via Cologne.
As you can see from our itinerary, there would no additional hours added to our trip. All that would happen is we would catch a train directly from Berlin to either Cologne or Frankfurt. Then on to Bruges from Cologne 3 days later.
The reason for this post is because my wife always asks me to plan the itinerary and then looks forward to visiting what I chose. However, this time, although I thought I had covered a reasonable cross-section of Germany (Munich, Berlin, the Alps, RODT), my wife happended to mention that when she gets to Germany she was really looking forward to seeing "all those castles while boating down the Rhine" and seeing what the Black Forest looked like.
Aaagghh! Will all that I chose to see in Germany, I had not included either of those two "must-sees".
So ... either we could carry on as planned and save those areas for another time, or, we could cancel Hamburg and visit either Cologne or Frankfurt and go to the places my wife has heard about
What do you think?
Thanks again for your comments. I'm sorry I didn't explain better about middle Rhine versus City visiting. It might make more sense if I explain what we are visiting in Germany.
Munich - 4 nights
Rothenburg ob der Tauber - 2 nights
Garmisch-Partenkirchen - 4 nights
Berchtesgaden - 4 nights
(then travelling thru Austria and Prague)
Dresden - 3 nights
Berlin - 4 nights
Our plan was then to spend 3 nights in Hamburg before catching a train to Bruges via Cologne.
As you can see from our itinerary, there would no additional hours added to our trip. All that would happen is we would catch a train directly from Berlin to either Cologne or Frankfurt. Then on to Bruges from Cologne 3 days later.
The reason for this post is because my wife always asks me to plan the itinerary and then looks forward to visiting what I chose. However, this time, although I thought I had covered a reasonable cross-section of Germany (Munich, Berlin, the Alps, RODT), my wife happended to mention that when she gets to Germany she was really looking forward to seeing "all those castles while boating down the Rhine" and seeing what the Black Forest looked like.
Aaagghh! Will all that I chose to see in Germany, I had not included either of those two "must-sees".
So ... either we could carry on as planned and save those areas for another time, or, we could cancel Hamburg and visit either Cologne or Frankfurt and go to the places my wife has heard about
What do you think?
Dec 31st, 2012, 06:09 PM
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Having spent almost 3 weeks in the Frankfurt area last summer, with almost daily day-trips (while hubby worked, I rode the rails!), I'd highly recommend a plan that has you in the Frankfurt/Rhine area. And Koln is wonderful too. Ahh so many places, so little time! If she has envisaged the Rhine castle experience, I'd try to make that happen. The Black Forest has its attractions, too, but given what you are trying to do, I'd say cut Hamburg and use whatever time you can carve out in Frankfurt/the Rhine/Koln. (I haven't been to Hamburg, so am not not-recommending-it, just highly recommending Frankfurt/Rhine/Koln etc.) (and even taking an ICE train, a trip to Koln, even if just to see the cathedral, would not be a short trip .)
Dec 31st, 2012, 08:38 PM
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Well, Berlin straight to Cologne would fit well into your new, improved plan - would allow for a Rhine / Mosel cruise and all the castles (although the Rhine around Cologne isn't that pretty, the most scenic part is Koblenz to Mainz), and it would be easier and more time-economical to hop aboard the Thalys to Brussels from Cologne. That would take up most of your time, if you included a poke around some of the townships and maybe Mainz at a stretch on the Rhine, or alternatively a visit to Trier on the Mosel - but not much Cologne. Try to keep at least a day for Cologne as I think you'd find enough to enjoy yourselves.
Frankfurt opens up completely different options but is a little further from your path to Bruges, and if you just want to do the Rhine, Cologne is good enough. I think you would have to forego the Black Forest and do it another time. Frankfurt isn't really a launch pad into that area, it's still too far away IMO. There are so many areas of Germany to explore, you would have to make a sacrifice of something! (My objective in future trips is to see more of the northeast, because the architectural style is so different, but that's a whole other story.) And maybe you'll get back to Hamburg another time, another trip...
Lavandula
Frankfurt opens up completely different options but is a little further from your path to Bruges, and if you just want to do the Rhine, Cologne is good enough. I think you would have to forego the Black Forest and do it another time. Frankfurt isn't really a launch pad into that area, it's still too far away IMO. There are so many areas of Germany to explore, you would have to make a sacrifice of something! (My objective in future trips is to see more of the northeast, because the architectural style is so different, but that's a whole other story.) And maybe you'll get back to Hamburg another time, another trip...
Lavandula
Jan 1st, 2013, 03:49 AM
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You could possibly drop a night in Rothenburg, as this is a town you can easily see in 1 day, or cut some days from Garmisch, and then you would have time to visit the Rhine. Take your cruise, visit some castles, and make your wife's dream come true.
As an alternative to Rothenburg, if you want to consider staying closer to Frankfurt and the Rhine, then have a look at Büdingen. Same type of medieval walled town as Rothenburg, but you don't have to wait for the tour buses to go home to enjoy the atmosphere. This town was never burned down in the 30 years war, nor bombed in WW2. They offer excellent private tours in English, that take you inside the city walls and up on the guard towers. We have paid only 41 € for an almost 2 hour tour. The town is only 1 hour outside of Frankfurt.
http://www.buedingen-touristik.de/en...buedingen.html
As an alternative to Rothenburg, if you want to consider staying closer to Frankfurt and the Rhine, then have a look at Büdingen. Same type of medieval walled town as Rothenburg, but you don't have to wait for the tour buses to go home to enjoy the atmosphere. This town was never burned down in the 30 years war, nor bombed in WW2. They offer excellent private tours in English, that take you inside the city walls and up on the guard towers. We have paid only 41 € for an almost 2 hour tour. The town is only 1 hour outside of Frankfurt.
http://www.buedingen-touristik.de/en...buedingen.html
Jan 3rd, 2013, 05:18 PM
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Hi Texasbookworm,
Thanks very much for your suggestions. It sounds like you have done exactly what I was hoping WE could do! Could you give me some examples of some of the day trips you did please?
I have toyed with the idea of:
1. Cruising the Rhine between Koblenz and Bingen
2. Visiting Cologne for a day
3. Possible visit to Heidelberg or cruise along Moselle
Is there anything you could add / change based on your experience?
Lavandula:
Thanks again for your input. I'm not that worried about being in Frankfurt rather than Cologne as far as my "path to Bruges" given that it is only around an hour by train from Frankfurt to Cologne. It has more to do with which city is a better launch pad for sightseeing day trips around that area.
Mainhattengirl:
I still would like to spend 2 nights in Rothenburg so that we can experience the town after the "day trippers" have gone for the day. However, we could definitely give up a day or two from Garmisch. Can you recommend a town that best offers the "look and feel" of the Black Forest?
Thank you all again for your helpful insights and information. Please keep the suggestions coming.
Regards,
Steve
Thanks very much for your suggestions. It sounds like you have done exactly what I was hoping WE could do! Could you give me some examples of some of the day trips you did please?
I have toyed with the idea of:
1. Cruising the Rhine between Koblenz and Bingen
2. Visiting Cologne for a day
3. Possible visit to Heidelberg or cruise along Moselle
Is there anything you could add / change based on your experience?
Lavandula:
Thanks again for your input. I'm not that worried about being in Frankfurt rather than Cologne as far as my "path to Bruges" given that it is only around an hour by train from Frankfurt to Cologne. It has more to do with which city is a better launch pad for sightseeing day trips around that area.
Mainhattengirl:
I still would like to spend 2 nights in Rothenburg so that we can experience the town after the "day trippers" have gone for the day. However, we could definitely give up a day or two from Garmisch. Can you recommend a town that best offers the "look and feel" of the Black Forest?
Thank you all again for your helpful insights and information. Please keep the suggestions coming.
Regards,
Steve
Jan 4th, 2013, 05:11 PM
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If you look at this trip report
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...kfurt-area.cfm
you can see all the day trips I took via train and what my husband and I did via rental car on the weekends. I LOVED Koln. I LOVED the Rhine area. I LOVED Büdingen as Mainhatten girl mentioned above. I liked Heidelberg. I liked the Black Forest area but not as much as the river valleys. I LOVED the Mosel area but via car with DH. (and my fave of everywhere in Germany (including a visit to Munich, Garmisch/Bavaria area and Romantic Road/Rothenburg back in the 1980's) is Trier.)
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...kfurt-area.cfm
you can see all the day trips I took via train and what my husband and I did via rental car on the weekends. I LOVED Koln. I LOVED the Rhine area. I LOVED Büdingen as Mainhatten girl mentioned above. I liked Heidelberg. I liked the Black Forest area but not as much as the river valleys. I LOVED the Mosel area but via car with DH. (and my fave of everywhere in Germany (including a visit to Munich, Garmisch/Bavaria area and Romantic Road/Rothenburg back in the 1980's) is Trier.)
Jan 4th, 2013, 06:21 PM
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If you look at this trip report
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...kfurt-area.cfm
you can see all the day trips I took via train and what my husband and I did via rental car on the weekends. I LOVED Koln. I LOVED the Rhine area. I LOVED Büdingen as Mainhatten girl mentioned above. I liked Heidelberg. I liked the Black Forest area but not as much as the river valleys. I LOVED the Mosel area but via car with DH. (and my fave of everywhere in Germany (including a visit to Munich, Garmisch/Bavaria area and Romantic Road/Rothenburg back in the 1980's) is Trier.)
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...kfurt-area.cfm
you can see all the day trips I took via train and what my husband and I did via rental car on the weekends. I LOVED Koln. I LOVED the Rhine area. I LOVED Büdingen as Mainhatten girl mentioned above. I liked Heidelberg. I liked the Black Forest area but not as much as the river valleys. I LOVED the Mosel area but via car with DH. (and my fave of everywhere in Germany (including a visit to Munich, Garmisch/Bavaria area and Romantic Road/Rothenburg back in the 1980's) is Trier.)
Jan 4th, 2013, 06:25 PM
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Wow - I have to confess, I have never even heard of Trier. I will have to look that up.
I look forward to reading your trip report and will reply when I have had a read and a look at Trier.
I look forward to reading your trip report and will reply when I have had a read and a look at Trier.
Jan 4th, 2013, 11:51 PM
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A limited Rhine cruise sometimes works well: like pick up the ship in Bacharach, which is worth seeing, and get off in St. Goar, which can be a fun place. Going north like this is a lot faster than going south because of the current. If you're heading into Belgium, Aachen, close to the border, can be worthwhile too.
Jan 8th, 2013, 12:30 AM
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Hello again Texasbookworm,
Fantastic trip report. Must have been wonderful to have so many days to allow you to see so much of the region.
From what you - and others - have said, we will be making an effort to get to Trier.
Unfortunately, though, I am not sure we will have time to see Büdingen or Bamberg, but we will do the Rhine, Heidelberg and Cologne.
Thanks again for your help and sharing your experiences.
Regards, Steve.
Fantastic trip report. Must have been wonderful to have so many days to allow you to see so much of the region.
From what you - and others - have said, we will be making an effort to get to Trier.
Unfortunately, though, I am not sure we will have time to see Büdingen or Bamberg, but we will do the Rhine, Heidelberg and Cologne.
Thanks again for your help and sharing your experiences.
Regards, Steve.
