calville

Cicerone- Le Mirador Kempinski looks fantastic on their website but gets mixed reviews on tripadvisor.
Rates on-line for our dates are:
690 CHF lake view
380 CHF std room- mtn view

I agree a/c might be essential. Has anyone seen the Feb issue of Natl Geographic Magazine about the melting Alps? The previous month had an article about Greenland and its hunters who are having difficulty because of thin ice. This is the warmest winter in NC I can remember.

richardsonsnm

bad heading.

swandav2000

Hi calville,

Well, your heading makes sense to me -- but of course I've been following your thread and saw your last post.

Can you summarize where you are in your plans, what your itinerary is now, and where you're considering staying?

BTW, I don't think I'll ever be able or willing to pay 690 chf for one night --

s

Ingo

... and it's the coldest winter in East Germany since the late 1980s. I think Switzerland and the Alps have a "normal" winter.

yes, please tell us where in the planning we are standing right now! ;-)

I.

calville

LOL I should pass out cigars when this is all finished- you are all honorary godparents for helping birth this baby of a trip.
Current plans are:
arrive at Lugano airport
4 nights in Ascona @ Castello-Seeschloss
3 in Sils-Maria @ Waldhaus
3 in Wengen @ Caprice
3 in Montreux @ Eden Au Lac but go to Vevey during the day. Only Eden Au Lac's lakefront rooms have a/c. I took Cicerone's advice about the a/c to be safe. Trois Couronnes sounds better but alas they don't have a/c.
depart from Geneva

I have confirmed all hotels but I can still change my mind

I will book air later today or tomorrow. Should we add on another night in Sils-Maria? I know Ingo will say yes!

When I first started researching this trip I believed people when they said Switzerland was expensive but I had no idea every location would be so pricey.

Hotel Waldhaus is the least expensive at 276 CHF (cheaper than Walther in Pontresina).

Cicerone, your advice about room size was also invaluable- I made sure to inquire.

I still welcome any and all comments.
Thank you Fodorites!

swandav2000

Wow, can you say "ideal"??? Can I carry your bags??? The only bad thing about your plan is that you can't stay months in each location! Also know that you'll be planning your return trip when you're in the air flying home (I'll put money on it!).

You'll find plenty to do in Vevey/Montreux. Just a sampling: vineyards of the Lavaux between Vevey & Lausanne; boat trips (www.cgn.ch for schedules); shopping for antiques in Vevey; climbing up to Montreux's old town; and of course a stroll to Chillon along the flowered lakeside promenade (maybe at 4 am to avoid the crowds!).

And you must know that we'll all be expecting a very detailed trip report in July or August!

s

Ingo

And you'll be driving if I am correct. I am assuming you know you have to park the car in Lauterbrunnen for Wengen.

Re: Switzerland expensive - no need to book these expensive hotels. I have travelled Switzerland extensively in the past 15 years and always watched out for deals.

You know you picked excellent hotels at best locations, all of them in the 4-5 star range, eh? I cannot believe you would expect to pay less for comparable hotels in, say Italy, France or so.

Ingo

PS: of course I would add another night in Sils-Maria, but I have no idea from which place to deduct this night ;-)

Catbert

Sounds good to me. I'll make recommendations for the Ascona part. While you're there, be sure to take part of the Centovalli train ride. You can go to Camedo and rent bikes and ride back to Locarno. It's all downhill, very safe, very easy and just beautiful. Stop at Verdasio and take the gondola up to the Grotto on top of the mountain for lunch. Fantastic views. If you want to hike, take the gondola over to Rasa, another charming town with no cars and you can hike to another Centovalli station from there.

Be sure to take the train from Locarno to Bellinzona and visit the three ancient Roman castles. And take a boat ride from Ascona, maybe as far as Stresa and back.

I recommend that you have one dinner at the Albergo Navegna. They have a beautiful lakeside dining terrace and their food is highly acclaimed. I personally thought the carpaccio verdure was one of the best things I ever ate. The home made ravioli and stuffed salmon were very good too.

calville

Thanks so much Swandav and Catbert for additional suggestions.
Ingo and others- would you pick Grindelwald over Wengen if you had a car?
I thought Wengen, Murren and Grindelwald all sounded equally fantastic but from my readings of this board and books, people seemed more awestruck with Wengen with almost a religious fervor
And some worship Gimmelwald...
I decided against Murren because of limited restaurant selections- very tiny.
All additional comments welcomed!

LLindaC

We really enjoyed Wengen and the Caprice was fabulous. What a view! Loved Gimmelwald, but VERY tiny. Really easy to do the Lauterbrunnen Valley, Murren and Gimmelwald in a day. Our favorite lunch was in G'Wald out on the deck right by the hostel. GREAT fondue, incredible view.We stayed at Masson outside of Montreux which we enjoyed, but even in mid June was very hot and no fans or a/c. We split our trip between really incredible hotel (Wengen) and a couple free Holiday Inn nights in Lugano (not bad, they had a/c and a pool) and Masson, which is more a mid-price B&B. We're going back in June and do all small inns and a walking tour of Val D'Anniviers. We really loved the small village experience! We hiked to all 3 castles in Bellinzona- neat, but not much to see. For great castle experiences, do NOT miss Chillon and from Montreux take a day trip to Gruyeres. Really neat place, great castle. We did the wine trail in Lavaux- it's not like CA though. Just a few tasting rooms/caveux and most don't open till late afternoon around 5 pm. Still, the little towns that line Lake Leman are really charming. We took the wine train between villages a couple of times. Driving there isn't easy, you have to park way outside the towns. Ditto for Montreux- much easier to take side trips by train and postal bus.

calville

Hi Linda- thanks for all your comments incl heat in mid June and the winery scene being very small- not similar to Napa Valley. I will post back as we get closer to the trip for more details if you don't mind.
Where did you eat in Wengen? One person on tripadvisor didn't care for the food at the Caprice but that's OK since we're not planning to get half board there.
We don't care about ambiance and fancy decor- only about taste and decent service. Pizza is fine! Holes in the wall are also fine. Everything in Switzerland sounds so clean and organized- I'm sure we don't need to worry about sanitation ratings

Cicerone

Responding to some questions on your other post, Corpus Christi is not a national holiday, whether it is declared a public holiday is up to each canton to determine (or even by city/village). As you will be in the Tocino, the Italian and more Catholic canton, it is likely you will find it more widely celebrated as a public holiday there. What this would mean is some restaurants and shops will be closed and perhaps some museums, it would all depend. Government offices and banks would be closed but that would not affect you (ATMS still work). You may be able to see processions or find local street fairs as part of the celebration which would be nice. You may find more traffic on the roads, esp as the holiday is on Thursday, 15 June, so people living in Tocino will probably take Friday off and make a long weekend of it, esp if the Jazz Festival is on as well. (June 29 is also another regional religious holiday, St Peter and Paul holiday. It is hard to say how this will affect you, you will again be in the more Catholic French Valais region if I understand your itinerary correctly.)

August 1 is National Day which is a major public holiday. It is a fun holiday, people build bonfires on the hills, fly the flag, etc. You will find most shops and many restaurants will be closed in smaller towns, in larger towns restaurants will be open, but shops will be closed. As it is a Tuesday, you will probably find that roads will be quite crowded starting the Friday before, as people will take Monday 30 June off as well and make a long weekend.

I would not pick Grindelwald over Wengen if I had a car. It is basically car-free anyway, you park at the beginning of the town, you can't really drive anywhere else, the town is quite small. It is at the bottom of the valley (albeit higher up than Lauterbrunnen), so you don't get the views down into the valley that you do from Wengen or Murren. It is personal choice, you have time to see them all if you want. Gimmelwald you can see as well, and you can decide whether to laugh at Rick Steves (I do), who doesn't even include the Engadine and also leaves out whole other swaths of this gorgeous country but has somehow convinced legions of people that they are seeing the "real" Switzerland by visiting THE most touristed valley in THE most touristed country in continental Europe. You can clearly tell who the tourists are in Gimmelwald, they are all clutching their Rick Steve's book and enjoying what they think is the "real" Swiss experience, what they are really seeing are subsidized farmers who could not make a living if the Swiss people did not choose to pay them to farm (the Swiss are romantics at heart I think), the real Swiss are elsewhere, like hiking in the Engadine to get away from their day jobs at pharmaceutical companies. . . .

Hmm, while I agree hotels are expensive, the prices in the Vevey region are certainly inflated, must be the Jazz Festival, because I know I have only paid about CH250-300 for lake view rooms in July and August at the Kempinksi and also at the Lausanne Palace.

In the Lake Geneva region, if you don't have luck with the hotels I have listed or want to change from the Eden, another hotel to consider is the Auberge du Raisin in the little village of Cully. (http://www.relaischateaux.com/raisin) This is a very, very charming village with a good size and extremely well preserved old town, parts of which are medieval. It is further down the lake than Vevey and Montreux so its Alp aspect is not quite as gorgeous but it is still very beautiful, and you can get up into the vineyards from here. Most importantly, this hotel has one of the best restaurants in the area, the Auberge du Raisin. The hotel gives cooking lessons too. There is another very good restaurant in town, the Au Major Davel. (This restaurant is also a hotel, you might check into it as well, I don't know anything about it) I don't know the du Raisin as a hotel, but have seen the lobby which was pleasant. It might be a good option. Don't know if it is air conditioned. There is a public parking garage in town which is a nice plus as well.

I also think Morges is a lovely town, I have a friend who lives there and I could get some hotel reccos there from him. There is a fantastic restaurant there (actually it is in Vuffens-le-Chateux where he lives, but quite close to Morges). Again it is a bit further down the lake and closer to Geneva so IMO the views are not quite as in-your-face as from the Vevey area, but still quite pretty. The one issue for going to any Jazz Festival events is that Morges may be a little bit far, about 40 minutes by train to Montreux which adds to the time. I would really urge you NOT to drive to Montreux for the festival, traffic is bad and parking is really hard to find and expensive.

For your flights, I am assuming from your other posts that you are flying out of Dulles. To get to Lugano, you have to change somewhere, as there are no direct flights from Dulles, and no direct flights from the US at all, and in fact very few direct flights from anywhere in Europe but Zurich. (This is a tiny regional airport, you will be on a prop plane almost certainly, check the weight restrictions on your luggage, you may pay excess baggage and may not be allowed any carryons except a purse. See below for more info.) I see that there is a Swiss Air/UA flight from Dulles to Zurich and then connecting to a Swiss flight to Lugano. (I hope you are taking that; as otherwise you are going to be making TWO connecting flights to get to Lugano and adding like 3.5 hours to your flight time, and increasing your chances for delays and missed flights.) I really kinda question your ability to make that Lugano connection, as you will have to go through customs and immigration in Zurich, and your flight arrives at 8:15 am and your connecting flight departs at 9:30. As you are on a UA flight, not actually a Swiss Flight, you will arrive into Gate/Terminal E and will have to change terminals to get to the domestic Swiss Air terminal at Terminal B. This involves taking the airport train between terminals, then immigration, baggage claim and re-checking your bags, so making this connection may be tight, as you are arriving at the same time as a lot of international overnight flights and there could be lines at immigration and you could wait a bit for baggage. (If UA won't issue you tickets at Dulles for the Lugano flight you could really have a problem because you will have to wait in a check-in line for ticketing.) If UA or Swiss Air will sell you the tickets then I am assuming it is a "legal" connection, but if you are buying them over an internet site that is not UA or Swiss (like Expedia), you might want to check with Swiss Air as to their recommended time for making this connection.

I see the same connection problem for the Swiss 2902 flight to Lugano at 9:30 am for most of the Dulles-Lugano flights I checked, as there are only two flights a day to Lugano from Zurich (one at 9:30 am 1:05 pm) What is your itinerary? There are some discount airlines flying into Lugano from Geneva and Rome, these connections may be better, although I can't speak for the airlines themselves, take a look at http://www.lugano-airport.ch/welcome...voli&sub=1. The website for Lugano airport is http://www.lugano-airport.ch/welcome.cfm?language=E. The website for Zurich airport is
www.zurich-airport.com

If you don't want to risk missing this connection (or if you do miss it) you could take a train right from Zurich airport to Lugano (just over 3 hours, a very pretty ride, there is are trains at 47 minutes after each hour, all require a change, some require 2 changes). You could then pick up the rental car in Lugano and drive to Ascona. Go to rail.ch for schedules.

Melnq8

Calville -

Regarding your question about Wengen restaurants:

We've eaten at the Silberhorn Hotel Restaurant - good rosti and fondue. I think there are actually three restaurants in this hotel. We dined at the one right off the lobby. If memory serves, it also has an entrance from the street, to the left of the COOP grocery store.

Da Sina is good for pizza and pasta - it's up the hill (to the left) from the train station.

We had a good light lunch at Restaurant Waldschluecht, which is to the right of the COOP grocery store. It's directly ahead of you as you leave the train station.

calville

Cicerone- thanks so much for your help about flights which I am planning to confirm later today.
You are better than a travel agent!
Thanks for the warning about luggage restrictions- I hadn't thought to check on that. I know about Ryan Air charging exorbitant excess luggage fees...
I use a combination of my favorite two websites to look for air: Orbitz and itasoftware.com
Itasoftware is great because each possibility comes with warnings like overnight flight, tight connection, long layover etc etc but the array of combinations is kind of overwhelming so I usually use in combination with Orbitz. Occasionally kayak.com has produced better deals.

I had everything figured out when the itinerary was reversed so now I have to start over again.

I also appreciate all the detailed info on holidays-it sounds interesting as long as we aren't too affected. I remember one yr we were in San Miguel de Allende, Mexico around Easter and there was an all-night procession through town and all-night fireworks- luckily we were staying up in the hills because no one staying in town got a wink of sleep that night.

I'm looking forward to checking on your other location and restaurant suggestions which also sound great.

Melnq- thanks so much for the Wengen restaurant suggestions. I'm planning to print out some of these pages and take with us!

jmw44

Cicerone, the subsidized farmers will be desolated to learn that they are not real Swiss. Sign this a romantic, J.

kleeblatt

Coming from a family of mountain farmers, almost all mountain farmers are subsidized or they couldn't make a living. I, for one, am glad they are there. And it's exactly these farmers that still give light to the many Swiss traditions. Some people call them the gardners of the alps. I think they give Swiss culture it's soul.

Your advice is usually extremely good. Just don't want you to give the mountain Swiss farmers (Bergbauern) a bad name. They are going to have a tough time making a living in the future.

calville

US farmers are also subsidized. My father bought a farm in the Midwest after his retirement and began growing crops. Because his farm was small he never received more than $10,000 per yr from the govt- probably more like 6-7,000.
The bigger the farm, the greater the subsidies. He had a few farm neighbors making $100,000 or more per yr in subsidies. This is public information and available on-line- we saw it once but I can't remember the site. I think a watchdog group created the site and you could look up people by name and county.
One thing that always surprised and dismayed my dad was how none of his farm neighbors had a home garden.

Here in NC, some tobacco farmers have become wealthy after federal buy-outs- I'm not sure of the details.

Schuler- I didn't realize you were Swiss- you sound like an American- did you ever live in the US?

swandav2000

Hey calville,

Just a reminder: if you have the time drive from Wengen (Lauterbrunnen) to Montreux via Zweisimmen & Gstaad for the scenic route. The way via Bern & Lausanne is faster, but via Zweisimmen & Gstaad is, of course, prettier! Maybe stop for lunch, eh, and then you can see for yourself if you like the area for a return visit!

s

calville

That's a wonderful idea Swandav- I was feeling sad about not seeing Gstaad.

I will mark off the map. We'll be going past Gruyeres after Gstaad- is that correct?

Can anyone suggest the best route from Sils-Maria to Wengen?

swandav2000

Well, you certainly can go to Gruyeres after Gstaad; it looks to me like it would be a toss up whether to go via Gruyeres & Bulle or Aigle & Villeneuve. You have to remember that I take the train, and it's a straight shot Chateau d'Oex - Montbovon - Les Avants. Don't think there's a road there.

I would go via Gruyeres. Maybe stop *there* for lunch and get some double-cream called creme de gruyeres.

s