LLindaC

Re- your question about Wengen. We ate at Da Sina's once- it was very good, reasonable and lots of fun. The piano player from the Regina switches back and forth and you usually hear someone playing. Nice outdoor venue, too. One night in town, they set up a tent and sold brats, beer and wine and performed music, yodeling, etc. That was fun. We ate dinner at Caprice one night- I thought it was excellent, but very expensive. The chef made me a special "one fish and all the rest vegetarian" 5 course meal. They have a superb wine list, but very pricey. The owner/manager both really know wine. One thing we enjoyed was sitting on the back deck outside the restaurant sipping wine, looking at the illuminated falls, the stars and moon, and talking to other guests.Who said this place wasn't quiet? It was quite serene.Service was wonderful. Just because it's close to the train station doesn't make it loud by any means. BTW-I eat no foul, beef, pork, etc and never had a problem in Switzerland.LOTS of cheese, and the pizza and Italian type dishes were superb. Didn't gain any weight because we hiked 3-4 hours a day!

Ingo

Re: Grindelwald vs. Wengen - with a car I would probably stay in Grindelwald because I like to have my car close to my hotel, best on their own parking ground. However, believe me you cannot go wrong with either. The Caprice in Wengen was recommended to me by friends and also by locals - it must be very good.

Re: driving routes -

Sils-Maria to Wengen ... you have two options. A) the quick route via Julier Pass, Tiefencastel, Thusis - motorway (Chur - Sargans - Lake Zurich - Wädenswil - Luzern - Sarnen) - Brünig Pass - Interlaken - Lauterbrunnen. It is mostly motorway, some parts are scenic, some are not. Driving time IMO 4 hours.

B) the scenic route: Julier Pass - Tiefencastel - Thusis (NOT motorway) - Reichenau - up the Vorderrhein valley (Flims - Disentis) to Oberalp Pass - Andermatt - Wassen - Susten Pass - Meiringen - Interlaken (or from Andermatt via Furka Pass - Realp - Grimsel Pass - Meiringen). Absolutely scenic almost all the time, similar route like the Glacier Express, be prepared to drive across passes with hairpin curves. Driving time about 6 hours, with stops for (not to miss) taking photos and lunch 7 - 8 hours. I have driven this route myself and would prefer it at least when the weather is fine.

Lauterbrunnen - Montreux ...

Interlaken - Spiez - Simmental (Boltigen) - Jaun Pass - Gruyeres - Bulle - Vevey - Montreux. Scenic and quick. cute villages in the Simmental (Erlenbach, Boltigen) and the castle in Gruyeres - and the approach to Vevey is stunning ... you drive down from the hills/vineyards toward the lake ... fantastic.

I.

kleeblatt

Hi Calville,

Parents are 100% Swiss. They moved to the US in the 60's. I was born and raised in "sunny" Washington State. Came back on my Swiss passport after college to work and to experience Europe. Twenty years later, I'm still "experiencing" it.

Good luck on your planning. You're getting great advice.

calville

LOL Schuler- I've got a teenage daughter who is turning into a real Europhile- I have a fear she'll end up in Europe permanently and never come home. Are your parents still in the US?

Ingo- thanks so much for the driving options- I will plot out on my map with two different colored markers.

Linda- I'm looking forward to eating lots of butterfat- I've been trying to stick to olive oil lately.
Did you see Hotel Alpenrose in Wengen? It also sounds nice.
How does Wengen compare with Grindelwald? It sounds like you had good weather in Wengen if you could see the stars.

calville

Half board option-
Have Fodorites been happy with their decision to eat dinner at their hotels? Or do you usually avoid taking half board?

I've been surprised at how most Swiss hotels offer this option and push it.

In the US I rarely eat at a hotel because the food is mediocre.

Castello-Seeschloss in Ascona is offering a great deal on one room category (garden view)-a "mid week special" only 12CHF for halfboard for 2 people! At these prices we could cancel and go out to eat and still not feel too guilty about wasting money.

It seems most hotels will allow you to cancel dinner but there's a fine- you don't get a full refund.

With markups on alcohol, I imagine hotels make alot of their money from their restaurants.

swandav2000

Hi Again,

I don't have any problem with taking half-board -- it's usually a great deal! And if you want to eat dinner at a different place, you can take your second hotel meal at lunch. You also have some great hotels lined up, hotels that have also gotten good reviews for their food. Also, you've chosen big hotels that usually have two restaurants, so you can still get a variety of food, from formal to casual (you would usually get a specific allowance in the second restaurant). I would go for it.

s

calville

Thank you Swandav- that's a good point about using the option for lunch.

Do lunches in Switzerland tend to be heavy as in Germany with the main meal at noon? (at least in homes)

kleeblatt

Traditionally, yes. In restaurants, you'll find lunches are usually menus (sometimes including soup or salad) and at night you'll usually have ala carte. Of course, you can order other dishes at lunch too if you don't like the suggested menu.

Melnq8

Regarding half board -

We chose half board on two trips to Wengen and found the food to be very good (particularly at Hotel Bellevue). It's also a good value
considering all the courses, and what you'd pay for the same at a restaurant.

However, one of us is a fussy eater and quasi-vegetarian, so it's less of an ordeal (for us and the chef) to eat at restaurants.

Melnq8

As Schuler mentions, lunches are substantial and set menus usually consist of soup, salad, bread and an entree (look for Tagsteller). You can find these at hotels, restaurants and cafes throughout Switzerland and they're a good deal, especially if you're hungry.

Eating in hotel restaurants in Switzerland is nothing like eating in hotels in the US. The food is very good and of a high standard.

calville

Schuler and Melenq thanks so much for the additional info- very helpful.

Cicerone- I went back over your airport info. Thank you so much for the warning about allowing plenty of time in Zurich to go through customs, collect luggage etc etc. What is the minimum amt of time you think we'd need?
Our friends have 1 hr 40 min layovers in Zurich and ours range from 2 hrs to 2 1/2 hrs.
We'd be coming into Zurich on AA or BA flights.

The hotel in Ascona told me the drive from Milan airport to Ascona could be 1 1/2 hr- 2 hrs depending on traffic. Flying into LUG sounded easier initially but could be nerve wracking based on your warnings.

That's an interesting idea about taking the train from Zurich to Ascona. I'm amazed the ride is so quick- is it a fast train and one big blur?

Zurich, LUG and Milan are all about the same price for us so getting as close as possible to our final destination seemed like a good idea.

I was shocked at the weekend "siestas" at the Hertz office in LUG and Locarno. Both Hertz and Europe Car take long lunch breaks on the weekend. So we need to carefully time our arrival.

Schuler- the Ascona hotel told me almost everything is closed on Sundays.
Do you know of anything fun to do on Suns or should we just plan on relaxing?

Thanks again Fodorites- I feel like I should be paying you for all this help.

Cicerone

I may have been looking at different flights, I though you were coming from Dulles and only had an hour and 15 minutes to make the transfer which IMO would be cutting it close. If the shortest layover is really 1 hour and 40 minutes than you SHOULD be OK. Of course if that flight is late, then you are going to potentially have some problems. If that flight coming into Zurich is an international flight from the US, those are rarely late, and are sometimes a bit early (like 10-15 minutes, but that helps) because the flights are on aircraft that flies only once a day. If however that flight is a connecting flight from say London and is one of those hourly or regular commuter type flights that shuttle back and further a few times each day, then the chances of it being late arriving into Zurich are very good, esp as the flight is on Thursday June 15 as a recall, which is a workday. You will just have to weigh all this up and decide how much of a chance you are willing to take.

Although flying into Milan appears to be an option, I wouldn't rent the car in Italy for two reasons (i) the drop off charges for leaving it in Switzerland are pretty high, and (ii) I don't like driving on Italian highways even on a good night's sleep when I know where I am going, so unless one of you is NOT trying to functi off an overnight international flight, I don't think you would really want to be driving on those roads to an unknown destination. You might look into training to Ascona from Milan, although there is no train station in Milan airport so you have to get into downtown Milan, a real pain IMO, esp on a weekday.

If I can make a suggestion, the train trip from Zurich to Lugano is actually quite pretty and in places very dramatic as you are at the bottom of some deep valleys, and you also go through some very pretty rolling green farm country, lakes etc. The trains are very comfortable, they bring drinks, sandwiches and of course chocolates round for sale, first class seats generally have electric outlets for laptops, ipods, etc. There are quiet cars where you are not aloowed to talk on a cell phone. If you have never been on a Swiss train you need to have that experience IMO. The trains go from the airport at 47 minutes after each hour, so you can do this easily, you could even have a quick bite in the food courtyard (mostly fast food or sandwhiches but fine) and then get on the train. The only hassles are changing trains with luggage, but if there are 4 of your it is not so bad. You have to change 1-3 times depending on what train you take and whether you go to Lugano or all the way to Ascona. I can see from the schedule that the train change at the Zurich main station is usually from Track 3 to track 5, so you are only going over 2 tracks on the main station platform, not a long walk, no stairs involved, not really hard to do and you have 10 minutes to make this change, which is plenty of time. The other train station changes are at smaller stations and should be changes just across the platform. (If you are at all worried about the change in Zurich, you could also just take any earlier train from the airport to the main train station in Zurich and then wait for the next Lugano/Ascona train which depart at 09 minutes after each hour from Track 5; you could even go into Zurich, put your luggage in the manned luggage room, have a nice lunch in the old town take a stroll down to the lake, and get on a train later in the day.)

As for the rental car issue, yes, welcome to Switzerland where people do not work 24/7 and close for lunch and on weekends. It actually is very nice once you get used to it, and you are entirely guilt-free on Sunday because you cannot do anything but relax (i.e. you can't go to the grocery store, you can't go to the dry cleaner or run that errand to the mall. . . ). If I could make another suggestion, you don't really need a car on your first day, and IMO you don't really need the car very much in Ascona as you will be walking, taking ferries and taking the little Centrovalli train. I would hold off and get the car as late as you can in your Ascona itinerary. Why pay for the car and for parking at the hotel when you won't need it? At a minimum, wait until later on your second day to get it when you have a better feel for the area. You can have a hotel car meet you at the train in Lugano and take you to the hotel, or you can continue on to Ascona by bus (which is the only way to get there, as Ascona has no train station). Ask the hotel what they would charge to pick you up in Lugano versus at the Ascona Post office (where the bus stop is). To split the cost among 4 people it may not be much to get picked up in Lugano and that would save some time and a little bit of a hassle with luggage on the bus (have never taken the bus so don't know about luggage room on the bus). Another thought is to leave all your larger pieces of luggage at the Lugano train station, take the bus up to Ascona, and collect your larger pieces later or the next day when you have the rental car.

Still another option if you can wait 8-36 hours for your luggage is to send your luggage ahead of you by train, or you may even be able to check your luggage to Ascona from the US (but you have to take the train to do this), take a look at various options at the websites below.

http://mct.sbb.ch/mct/en/reisemarkt/...il-baggage.htm.

http://mct.sbb.ch/mct/en/reisemarkt/...isegepaeck.htm.

http://mct.sbb.ch/mct/en/reisemarkt/...ck-schweiz.htm

kleeblatt

Hi Calville,

I can only second the train ride from Zürich to Locarno. It's very easy. Check sbb.ch (en for english) to see where you change trains.

However, you have other options:

Do you need a car in Ascona? It depends on what you'd like to do. You can take a ferry to Brissago island and all the way down to Stresa. You can take the Centovalle train or you can drive that route. You can go to Bellinzona and see the castles. All on a Sunday (I believe the castles are closed on Mondays).

When we are in Ascona, we do have our car and we drive to these places (except for the ferry rides). Personally, with four people, I'd rent a car, especially since someone in your party has a painful knee. But you might want to consider renting a car on the second or third day.

Should you get a car in Zürich already? Possibly. Once you are out of Zürich, it's quite easy to drive to Ascona. Almost all of it is Autobahn until after Bellinzona.

Of course, you can get your car at Lugano airport too. It's a 30-40 min. drive to Ascona.

I think your decisions all depend on when you arrive and what you have planned for the first few days. Will you be tired when you arrive? Are the rental agencies open? Do you really need a car the first few days?

jmw44

Hello. Re the train from Zurich (are you still considering it?)-- It is a very picturesque introduction to Switzerland, and I notice that the one that leaves Zurich at 10:09, or 12:09, or 14:09 does go straight to Locarno. (With numerous stops, requiring 3:10 from Z to Loc) Actually, the sbb site shows the same train with the same departure time and track direct to Locarno and with changes. It might be one of those instances when you want to be sure to be seated in a car that says Locarno on the side (with other cars switching mid trip somewhere to go down to Lugano).

Anyway, I'm wondering if your hotel in Ascona will meet you at the station in Locarno? That seems to be the most convenient option. I'm thinking the local bus (while much nicer than US buses) might be tight with lots of luggage.

My only other contribution (I was just about to recommend the same Sunday options as schuler) is my concern about the friend with the 'painful knee.' I have to confess that that worries me. How painful and after how much walking? For example, the train change in Zurich from the flughafen train to the Locarno train, while not distant counting tracks, may require more walking than you think because you don't get off one train and on the second right at the head of the tracks. Am I making sense here? The trains are often very long, and you might have to walk quite a piece to reach the head of the flughafen track and then to reach your car once you reach track 5. Ten minutes is still plenty of time unless the knee is an issue. Cicerone's mention of taking later trains is a good option, but there again is the question of how much walking around Zurich's lovely old town center would be possible. If we were talking about one of my friends and travel companions, I'd really think about how much walking will be possible on this trip during the times when you are all together. J.

swandav2000

Hi,

Again adding a note. As Cicerone says, you can check your bags in the US for delivery at your Swiss destination. Raileurope is the US vendor, and you don't need a train ticket. It costs $15 per bag -- I would ask when the bag will be delivered.

Here's the link:

http://www.raileurope.com/us/rail/pa...il_baggage.htm

You'll notice that they won't deliver to Ascona (no train station) but will to Lugano or Locarno. So, again, you may pick up your bags later in the day or even the next day when you have the car.

s

calville

Wow- thank you guys so so much! I don't know of any travel agent who could give me all this info.

Our friend's knee is still problematic with surgery being recommended for the cartilage tear- he's getting a second opinion though. Recovery from surgery would be quick in a young person but is complicated in his case because of middle age osteoarthritis. The joys of aging! By June though his knee should be as good as it will get.
Prior to the injury he had been walking many miles per wk.

I'll share this info with our friends- we'll have to mull over the options.
Thanks again for your invaluable help.

Cicerone or others how much time is needed in London between flights? We don't go through customs with our luggage do we?

enzian

Well, I've been away a few days and I see I've missed a lot! Are you now flying into Zurich? Do you have a question about transfer time at Heathrow? And did you get your half-board question answered? (If not, I'll add my 2 cents: Good Swiss hotels are justifiably proud of their food. The half-board dinner is a good value, and we've always enjoyed the selections. Last summer we were paying, I think, CHF 30 for a 4-course meal; wine is extra. The one downside is that the menu is fixed and you may not get any choices).

And we haven't even begun to talk about Swiss wine. . .

calville

Hi Enzian- you raise a good point about the menu being set- I'll check on vegetarian/fish options being available.

Well we finally booked our flights and hotels. I can still change my mind though about hotels

The Swiss trains sound great but we decided to stick with the Darwin Air Saab 2000 prop plane from Zurich into Lugano. It looks very cute http://www.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=348

and hopefully won't be too nervewracking.

Re: trains- one thing I'm still confused about- e.g. if you were coming from Munich by train to Zurich- would you still have the option of checking your bags on the train? But you aren't guaranteed to retrieve them on arrival? You might have to wait until the following day? What if you have a medium to large suitcase that won't fit in the overhead compartment? Where do you put it? And do you need to sit near it to guard its safety? My teen will be in a school exchange in Austria and might join us for a few days from Vienna or Munich-she is a typical teen girl with loads of clothes and shoes- a small suitcase would really cramp her style.

The Lake Maggiore tourist office [email protected] sent me some great brochures. I was surprised at how flat Ascona looks but I see all the hills in the background.
The bike ride from the Centovalli down to Locarno sounds wonderful as well as lunch in Intragna and dinner at the Panorama and Navegna.

How does the Centovalli compare with the Valle Maggia? Both look beautiful in photos- as you've all said before, we can't go wrong with any of it.

When you say things are closed on Sundays would that include bike rentals? I think Ingo also mentioned on another thread that museums are closed on Monday. Do the lake boats run on Sundays?

swandav2000

Hello there,

A few responses --

I was on the German rail site a few days ago (www.bahn.de), and saw that they will transport bags from Germany to Switzerland. It takes FIVE days. I suggest your teen learn to compromise!!

If a big is too big for the overhead, it goes in the space at the end of the car, or between the seats. I usually try to keep my bag in sight, or I use a cable lock on it. Now, if the bag is so big, how will your teen (". . . cramp her style . . .&quot get it onto the train and down the train aisle?

Bike rentals in Switzerland are usually from the train stations, which are usually open on Sunday. You can check it out and reserve your bike at www.rent-a-bike.ch.

In June, lake boats run every day of the week. If you google your lake, you'll find the ferry company and get the schedule (www.cgn.ch for Lake Geneva).

Good luck!

s

calville

Thanks Swandav- that's interesting the rail stations rent bikes.

My daughter has flown twice before to Europe with a heavy bag- it will be within the airline limit of 50 lbs but will still be too large and heavy to hoist up into an overhead compartment.
Do most Europeans travel light and use the overhead space?

Does each rail car have designated floor space for large bags? Is it common practice to lock them with a cable if you aren't sitting near them?
I know she would be uncomfortable doing something that was considered odd.

All I can say is there will be no compromise in the wardrobe dept. I was a hippie with a backpack- it's hard for me to relate to the collection of pointy toe spike heels.

Re: Lac Leman just before the Montreux Jazz Festival- do you think we should be reserving our boat rides in advance to make sure they aren't sold out?
Other than boats to Chillon and Vevey from Montreux- are there any other pleasant boat rides we should consider?

How was the breakfast at Eden Palace Au Lac? Are the breakfasts in the French region of Switzerland less extensive?

Re: other air conditioned hotels in Montreux- I saw your comments about Raffles Le Montreux Palace and the road that runs between the lake and the hotel.
What do you think about Grand Hotel Suisse Majestic?
Someone on tripadvisor referred to the "fading elegance" of Eden Au Lac but also commented on its good prices however it sounds as if prices have gone up considerably. I hope for 360 CHF it isn't too faded

We'll be departing on the 30th just before the town is overtaken by the Jazz Festival. I hope with the window closed and with the a/c on our lake front room on the promenade will be quiet enough. This is also a bit of a concern in Ascona at the Castello-Seeschloss- how much quiet we'll be sacrificing to get a lake view.
Thanks Swandav.