jt865504

Hello,

My partner and I are planning a Spring trip that includes Germany, Switzerland, and France. We are in our late 20's and have both been to Europe before (it'll be my third trip, his second) but have never been to Germany or any of the locations we have planned except Paris. We both are big fans of parks, castles, cathedrals (we enjoy going to masses and concerts in churches), history, interesting museums of all kinds, good food, easy hikes, and cute villages. We are budget travelers and generally stay in apartments, cottages, budget hotels, or rent rooms in people's homes. We like to mix a few big cities with some more relaxing nice smaller places. We would like to minimize one night stops but don't want to spend too much time driving back and forth to sights either.

The only thing we have tacked down is our flights, we are flying into Dusseldorf, Germany (1.5 hours north of Koblenz) on May 11th and flying out of Paris, France on June 4th so we'll have about 24 days in Europe. Our priorities are to see the Rhine River Valley*, Black Forest, a couple days in the Alsace region in France, Bavaria*, Romantic Road (want to do a night in Rothenburg*), Swiss Alps*, and end in Paris*. Willing to cut a day or two off of Paris if people think it is needed elsewhere, but want time to explore Paris and do a couple day trips there. I would appreciate any comments people have about our itinerary and the best way to organize some of our time. I am particularly having some difficulty in trying to organize our time from Day 5 to Day 12. We plan to pick up a rental car in the Rhine Valley and drop it off before arriving in Munich and then will be getting around by train and public transit.

Day 1: Leave Saturday May 11
Day 2: Arrive at Dusseldorf around 2pm, train or drive to Rhine River Valley (stop at Cologne Cathedral on way), sleep in Bacharach
Day 3: Sleep in Bacharach
Day 4 Sleep in Bacharach
Day 5: Head to Black Forest, spa day in Baden Baden, sleep in Baden Baden or drive to Strasbourg?
Day 6: Strasbourg, France
Day 7: Strasbourg, France
Day 8: visit clock museum and open air museum in Black Forest, sleep somewhere in Black Forest or sleep near Lake Constance?
Day 9: Lake Constance, sleep in Meersburg or Lindau
Day 10: Lake Constance or Fussen?
Day 11: Bavarian castles, abbey, luge ride, sleep in Fussen
Day 12: Drive Romantic Road to Rothenburg, sleep in Rothenburg
Day 13: See Nurnberg and Wurzburg during day, train to and sleep in Munich
Day 14: Munich
Day 15: Munich
Day 16: Train to Swiss Alps, sleep in Murren, Switzerland
Day 17: Murren
Day 18: Murren
Day 19: Paris
Day 20: Paris
Day 21: Paris
Day 22: Paris
Day 23: Paris
Day 24: Paris
Day 25: Leave Paris in afternoon and arrive home

Thanks everyone!
Jess

nytraveler

Suggest you look at some maps, since you are doing a bunch of bouncing around = in and out of France twice and also the Black Forest a couple of times.

Wouldn't it be easier to start in Munich and go on a more straight line, ending in Paris?

jt865504

Thanks, but as mentioned, we can't change the flights. We are aware of where everything is located and would love to hear if you have better ways of organizing the destinations.

olivieretcerise

I would give up some days in Paris for the following:

- cathedrals in Worms, Speyer and Mainz (together listed as UNESCO World Heritage - http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/168) - because you mentioned cathedrals/churches. These can be done between Bacharach and Baden-Baden;

- then, before reaching Baden-Baden, you may stop in Heidelberg, one of the most beautiful cities we've visited in Germany;

- as for the sleep in Baden-Baden or Strasbourg, I would say neither - both are rather expensive (Baden-Baden for its spa facilities and Strasbourg for its EU institutions). You may rest at a Guesthouse in the Black Forrest in-between.

Russ

"Our priorities are to see the Rhine River Valley*, Black Forest..."
"We plan to pick up a rental car in the Rhine Valley and drop it off before arriving in Munich and then will be getting around by train and public transit."

Good that you have 3 nights on the Rhine. Train fare for two to Bacharach from FRA is 27€ on the local trains. Since you arrive on a Sunday, you may wish to purchase a "Happy Weekend" daypass at FRA for 40€, good all day long, in the event that you plan to use the train beyond Bacharach that day.

There aren't a lot of convenient places to get a car near Bacharach, and rail options for exploring this area are cheap and convenient. The "Rheinland-Pfalz Ticket" is a daypass (26€ for two, good on weekdays after 9 am on local trains) that will get you everywhere you'd want to go between Bonn and Karlsruhe (which is almost in the Black Forest!) on the Rhine. It's also good for travel up the Mosel River, a trip you'll want to take - Cochem, Trier and Burg Eltz Castle would all be possible outings with this pass:

http://www.vrminfo.de/en/tickets-and...-pfalz-ticket/

Baden-Baden is not really in the Black Forest. You should have a look at the towns along the scenic Black Forest Railway route between Offenburg and Singen:

http://www.black-forest-travel.com/p...t-railway.html

Not listed on the above page is Gengenbach, a fabulous old world town on the BF railway that puts you mid-way between Strasbourg and the high Black Forest towns. It would be a fine place to stay for days 5-8. Note that train and bus travel is completely FREE when you stay in Gengenbach or one of 130 other towns that participate in the KONUS program:

http://www.blackforest-tourism.com/konus

You might want to take a peek at my trip report on the Rhine and the Black Forest from last year on Bavaria Ben's site:

http://www.bensbauernhof.com/russ2011.html

Ben's site is an excellent source of info. on both areas.

Russ

Gengenbach's town website:

http://www.stadt-gengenbach.de/en/tourism/

Mimar

You're skipping the Mosel River valley, which was the highlight of our trip to Germany. It's lined with vineyards, fleecy trees, and sprinkled with cute towns, and is not as commercial as the Rhine. Near the Mosel is Burg Eltz, one of the most interesting castles; it has been continuously lived in so not just another pile of stones. Maybe you can take some time off the Rhine and do the Mosel.

According to Rick Steves, the Mosel is what people imagine the Rhine to be, and the Black Forest is a disappointment.

jt865504

Thanks for everyone's help so far.

olivieretcerise - Thanks, we'll look into those cathedrals and will consider adding a stop to Heidelberg to our trip plan

Russ - Thanks so much for all the info and websites, this information is very helpful and much appreciated!!

Mimar - we do plan to spend a little time along the Mosel visiting Burg Eltz and Cochem but plan to sleep along the Rhine. Glad to hear that this area was a highlight of your trip.

Jess