marvelousmouse

I did something a bit crazy. Um...in the midst of planning a Disneyworld/NYC trip, I realized that the bits I was looking forward to most were the world showcase and Christmas markets. I thought...Why am I going to fake Germany when I could go to the real place instead. So I checked air ticket prices and it's surprising not a whole more.

So...now I have a Europe trip to plan instead.Pro: I'm so excited. Con: yikes, what have I done. I've never been, and I'm just trying to figure out logistics right now. Any help would be much appreciated.

I leave Seattle Dec. 9. Stopover in Iceland for 1 night. Continue onto London the next day.

Rough itinerary so far.
11, 12, 13, 14 London (only thing for sure is British Museum and day tour to Bath/Stonehenge)

12/15: take the train to Erfurt, Germany. Is this scenic enough to do in the day time or do you recommend the night train? I don't sleep well on trains so I'm leaning towards day, but can't decide. Night in Erfurt, visit Erfurt market.

12/16: train to Dresden. Nights 16, 17 there.

12/18: travel to Seiffen. Market and spend the night.

12/19: travel to Munich. Night 19, 20, 21, 22 there. Markets, Dachau, day trip to castles. Is there another daytrip that would be fun? Or am I best off focusing on Munich? I'm thinking there are enough interesting museums to keep me busy, but I do want to branch out and see as anything interesting nearby. (Speaking of museums: are displays generally in just German or both German and English? If the first- are there resources online or in print I can use?)

12/23: Romeward-Ho! From what I've been reading this is a scenic train trip. So I'm planning to do it then, but interested in hearing your thoughts.

Nights 24-30, Rome. Midnight Mass, Vatican museums, Coliseum, catacombs. Day trip to Pompeii. Should I try to day trip to Venice? I'd love to see Venice but I don't know if it's doable or worth it this time of year. Any other worthy day trips?

31- onto Paris, possibly on night train the night of the 30th? I wanted New Years Eve to see a bit of the city. But if the route is scenic, I might choose to do it during the day.

Dec 31- Jan 4 nights in Paris. I don't think I want any day trips here but I am open to suggestions. Definitely going to the louvre 1/2. Haven't researched otherwise.

1/5- fly to NYC, 1/5-1/8 Nyc. Trains at Botanic garden, 9/11 museum, tenement museum, Rockettes, the Met.

So, basically, the only things set in stone is flying into London and flying from Paris to NYC on those dates. I want to make the most of the Christmas Markets as its a bucket list item and I really doubt I'll do another Europe trip during the Winter. But if something isn't working above, or you have better alternatives, I'd love to know.

I considered Nuremberg, as I know it's one of the more traditional markets but the crowd anecdotes do not make it sound fun. Would like your thoughts on markets you've been to and enjoyed especially.

What popular attractions need to be booked ahead? The coliseum? Vaticans?

Misc:
Clothing wise. Do you think a waterproof jacket, fleece jacket and a down vest would be sufficient? I layer like that at home. I have a ski jacket but I feel that it's too warm for cities. Any suggestions on a warm "dressy" outfit to wear to mass and maybe a dinner? I usually travel during the summer- I don't want to overpack, but I'm not sure what I need for winter travel.

Luggage: I have a hard shell suit case as well as a duffel backpack. Would either be the clear winner in this scenario? Duffel holds less but is easier to carry.

Thanks!

traveller1959

>> yikes, what have I done. <<

What you have done is, you make yourself a very special christmas present.

Now, the details.

First, a general remark. Americans are used to ask, where is the best christmas market? - And the answer is a clear "everywhere".

Christmas markets are magical in every German city and, I have to admit, you will find pretty much the same stands in every German city. There is, of course, a general rule - the bigger the city, the bigger the market. And there are some specially themed market, like medieval christmas market or (shall I say that?) an erotic christmas market in Hamburg.

Second. Do I understand that you want to take the train from London to Erfurt? - I would not recommend that. The train ride will take at least 10 hours with at least 2 changes of trains and the risk of missing a connection. And it is not scenic at all. You will be wrecked after this train ride.

Either fly into Frankfurt or directly to Dresden. Or take the train to Aachen, which is a fine historical city with a beautiful christmas market, and from there to Dresden.

marvelousmouse

Yes. I was thinking that it would be an agonizing train ride as well, but I could not figure out another routing. I was interested in the glass ornaments of Thuringia, but if you think I could find the same else I'm fine skipping it. I think Aachen is a good option, but another question: the trip shows up as either 10 hour or less than 4 hour. Is it the layover or the speed of the train that is the likely difference? I couldn't figure it out. The 4 hour trip also has 2 switches which I thought was odd.

And then Aachen to Dresden is around 6 hours. Is that fairly typical or should I be looking for a shorter trip?

I knew there were specialty markets but I wasn't expecting an erotic market lol. My little sister would love that, pity she isn't traveling with me!

marvelousmouse

Also, are the medieval markets that different from the regular ones? It sounds intriguing but I just assumed it might just be the decorations that are different- food, booths, entertainment all the same.

marvelousmouse

Figured the layover bit out. 13 minutes at Frankfurt to transfer trains. Is that safe? In the US it would not be but I would think the train system in Europe has got to be more efficient than the US...or is that a transfer that locals would think is too short as well??

annhig

you could fly to Berlin, and then get the train to Erfurt - there are loads of flights on that route and the train should be easy with direct trains taking between 2-3 hours.

annhig

oops - i meant to say that to look up the trains, look at bahn.de

traveller1959

There are several train connections between London and Aachen, usually with a change of trains in Bruxelles. Total travelling time is between 3:32 and 4:42, depending on when you start.

The 11 hour connection is at night.

The connections between Aachen and Dresden are 6 hours something. 11 or 13 minutes for changing the trains is plenty of time. Usually the connecting train is on the opposite track on the same platform.

marvelousmouse

Thank you. I thought about flying and I may still do it, but that means checking baggage because of liquids, which I find to be a pain.

marvelousmouse

Also- can anyone recommend a hotel or hostel close to the Aachen market?

janisj

>> but that means checking baggage because of liquids, which I find to be a pain.<<

What sort of liquids do you need massive amounts of?

janisj

. . . and even if you run out (I almost never do) you'll probably be able to find anything you need in small towns like London, Munich, Rome and Paris

marvelousmouse

I find it annoying to put my face lotion in those itty bitty containers and I know it's weird, but I really only like one kind of toothpaste lol. I've travelled that way too, but for longer trips like this it just isn't worth it.

bvlenci

The train connection from Munich to Rome is also about 9 hours, with a change in Bologna. Before getting to Bologna, that train stops in Verona, which is much nearer to Venice than Rome is. Rather than making a day trip to Venice, which would be over 7 hours round trip, it would make more sense to stop over for the night in Venice before going on to Rome. There's no telling what the weather would be like in late December, but at least you wouldn't have the terrible crowds you would find there in nine months out of the year.

It would also make a lot more sense to visit Paris after London, instead of returning there after Rome. It could even break your trip to Erfurt. From London to Paris, you could take the Eurostar, and from there to Erfurt, the train trip would "only" be about six hours, with one change of train in Frankfurt. Of course, that might wreck your plans for the midnight mass at St. Peter's. Would Notre Dame do instead?

If you must fly home from Paris, I wouldn't recommend taking the train from Rome to Paris. The overnight train is another long slog, and the train itself gets pretty bad reviews. (I've taken that train from Milan, but I was expecting something like a 1-star youth hostel, so I wasn't just went with the flow.)

You can probably find some cheap one-way flights (probably cheaper than the train) from Rome to Paris on www.skyscanner.net , but be aware that budget airlines either have strict baggage limits or make you pay extra for checked bags. With all the moving around you're planning, I suppose you know you should pack very light.

If you want to go to the midnight mass at St. Peter's, you have to reserve a ticket. This is free, just for the purpose of crowd control, but they're in high demand. It's way too early to reserve now, but here is information on how to do it:

http://www.vatican.va/various/prefettura/index_en.html .

marvelousmouse

The main issue with visiting Paris after London was that it pushes Germany back, and a lot of the Markets close by the 23rd. Yep, I do have to end my trip in Paris- I have no idea why, but flights back to the US from anywhere else are much more expensive.

Hmm. Does that train run late or is it just uncomfortable? I will check into flights but I was rather looking forward to the scenery and I was assuming that flights so close to the holiday would be hideously expensive. My other thought is that I had assumed that taking a train from city center to city center would be less of a hassle to fly, and then get transit to city center but I don't know how inconvenient those airports are?

bvlenci

When I took the overnight train, I got on in Milan. When it leaves Milan, it's already well past dark, especially in December. By the time it's light again, you'll be near Paris. In fact, it will be dark when you leave Rome, unless you go to Milan early. The entire trip takes 14 1/2 hours, including 3 1/2 hours to get to Milan, and 25 minutes to change trains.

The trip between Rome and Milan would be on the high-speed Frecciarossa train, which, even if it weren't dark out, goes too fast to allow you to enjoy the scenery. There isn't much scenery on that route, anyway.

The train arrived just a little late when I took it, but I've read complaints on Tripadvisor about late arrivals.

I didn't find the train uncomfortable, but, as I said, my expectations weren't high. There was supposed to be breakfast served, but it wasn't available for reasons that weren't explained. There was also no potable water available. The sinks on the train had signs saying not to drink the water, and there was no bottled water available to buy, nor a bar car. Maybe this was a one-time problem, but I would bring your own food and water.

Blueeyedcod

Rome Christmas Day - everything is closed except churches, which are open for Mass, not sightseeing. Great time to just wander.
A day trip to Pompeii is easy - train to Naples and then connection to Pompeii - takes about 2.5 hours one way. Don't go if the weather forecast is cloudy/rain as Pompeii is very exposed and there is almost nowhere to shelter from rain.

marvelousmouse

Hmm. Well, given my experiences with Amtrak, the good part is that my expectations cannot actually sink much lower. Good to know about the food/bar bit, I would not have expected that.

I may be able to fly from Seattle to Munich, cutting out London or leaving that for the tail end of my trip. Then I'd take a train from Germany to Italy. Fly from Rome to Paris.

Would that be significantly better? I think it would be cheaper, anyway, and it might give me one more day in Germany.

Blueeyedcod- thanks for the weather tip! I don't know if you are familiar with the US...but would that be torrential rain as in, say, east coast, or a steady drizzle as it is in Seattle? Because I'm definitely used to the latter.

marvelousmouse

For anyone familiar with Iceland- I was planning on just one night for acclimation, the blue lagoon and to walk around the city a bit...but would 2 nights be better? The flight is free and I do not think it's likely I will make it to Iceland again, but I don't know how much more I could see in a day anyway.

Blueeyedcod

It is torrential. Campania is not a drizzle place - when it rains, it pours. I was in Pompeii once and the rain was coming down from all sides as the wind was whipping it around - not even a NorthFace jacket with hood and golf umbrella kept it off. I think Pompeii in drizzle would actually be pleasant as it keeps the crowds away.