Erica

So many of you are so helpful. Perhaps you can offer me some advice.<BR><BR>I'd like to apply for dual citizenship (American/Irish).<BR><BR>Both my maternal grandparents were born in Ireland and both died in the United States. <BR><BR>I know the counties they were born in in Ireland and I know the dates of their deaths.<BR><BR>In trying to get a death certificate for my grandfather who died in a hospital in New Jersey, I was informed I'd need his father's name and his mother's (my great grandparents).<BR><BR>There are no known relatives to whom to go for that information.<BR><BR>My grandmother died in New York City and I haven't the slightest idea where to go for her death certificate.<BR><BR>My grandfather died in 1959 and I was told the hospital routinely destroys such 'antiquated' certificates.<BR><BR>My grandmother died around 10 years before that.<BR><BR>In order to apply for dual citizenship, I need, among other things, a death certificate and a birth certificate.<BR><BR>Do you have any suggestions who I should contact in New York for my grandmother's death certificate and any suggestions of sites in Ireland that might offer some help in locating their birth certificates?<BR><BR>Thanks in advance for your help.<BR><BR>Erica

Jules

Erica - if you are really serious about this I highly suggest visiting your local passport agency where there will be a State Department rep who will be able to answer your questions. I might be wrong but I do not think you are allowed (in the eyes of the US) to have duel citizenship after the age of 18. Ireland will recognize both but the US will not. My experience with this is that I have several cousins born and raised in England (Dad is American/Mom is British) they had both US and British passports but at the age of 18 had to decide which one to keep. Maybe things have changed in the past few years

Leslie

You can get the information for NY from:<BR><BR>State Department of Health<BR>Vital Records Office<BR>733 Broadway<BR>Albany, NY 12237-0023<BR><BR>Mailing Address:<BR><BR>PO Box 2602<BR>Albany, NY 12220-2602<BR><BR>Application Forms: 518-474-3077<BR>Credit Card Orders: 877-854-4481<BR>Fax Credit Card Processing: 877-854-4607<BR>Internet: www.health.state.ny.us and www.vitalcheck.com<BR><BR>Births - since 1881; Deaths since 1880; Marriages - since 1881; (except New York City; also no records for Albany and Buffalo for 1881-1914 and divorces for 1881-1908; contact city clerk where event occurred for those records; Divorces since 1963; before 1963, contact ocunty clerk where divorce is filed.<BR><BR>Certified copies: births, deaths, divorces - $15.00<BR>Marriages: $5.00; searches of more than three years - $5.00 per ten years searched<BR>Geneologiy fee: $11.00 for a 1-3 year search for birth, death and marriages. $21.00 per 10 years, $10.00 for each additional ten years.<BR>Credit card orders - $35.00 for record or no-record statement. Birth records only. Applicant must call himself/herself. Fee is non-refundable.<BR><BR>NYC Department of Health<BR>Office of Vital Records<BR>125 Worth Street, Room 133<BR>New York, NY 10013<BR><BR>Mailing Address:<BR><BR>PO Box 4<BR>New York, NY 10013<BR>(212) 788-4520<BR>Fax: (212) 446-0946<BR>Credit card order fax: (800) 908-9146<BR>Internet: www.nyclink.org/health<BR><BR>Five boroughs in New York City; births - 1910, Deaths 1949<BR><BR>Births and deatlhs search fee - $15.00. Includes on certified copy of record, if found. If not found, a certified certificate stating that the record was not found is issued. Additional copies ordered at the same time: $15.00. Phone orders additional $5.00 mailing and service charge payable by credit card; $11.00 additional shipping and handling fee for expedited delivery on credit card phone orders. There is not credit card service for death certificates.<BR><BR>I'll get you the information for New Jersey tomorrow.<BR>

Erin

My mom has done significant research on our family history over the past several years. I know that the Mormon Church has the largest collection of geneaology history, even on non-Mormon families (I don't know why this is). Access to the information is free, and if you do a search on Google you will be able to get their website address. Hopefully this helps. Best wishes.

Christina

I have a friend who has dual citizenship German/American. I don't know about Ireland, but you can for other countries. I think it may be true the US doesn't &quot;recognize&quot; that, whatever that means (and my friend has said something like that, also), but if the other country does, it can serve its purpose there. She wants to keep her German citizenship for family and other social reasons (ie, maybe wanting to move back in some years). I think you can as long as the other country doesn't make you forfeit your citizenship and passport when you get a new one (she just became a US citizen so now has two passports, she was German from birth). Starting with the US, it may be a different story though, at least in this case. The State Dept has rules on this which says it's okay if you get it through marriage or automatically (or like my friend, you don't have to give your birth one up)--but you can't have dual if you deliberately apply for the second as you want. So, you should check with appropriate authorities on that issue, as Jules suggested. Here's one page on it from the State Dept<BR>http://travel.state.gov/dualnationality.html <BR><BR>As far as the other issue, that shouldn't be too hard if you start making a few phone calls to proper authorities and have correct names. Look in the phone book under govt -- usually death certificates are handled by a state's dept. of vital statistics, public records, or something like that. If you can't find right place, just ask your local public librarian whom to call, they should know. Here is a good web site with lots of resources for Irish ancestry research:<BR><BR>http://tiara.ie/links.html<BR>

Duality

Did you know that UK passports are available to the children of parents with Northern Ireland citizenship and, unless something has changed, available to children whose parents were born in Eire too.<BR><BR>This URL will take you to a British High Commission website that has all the info you could possibly want on applying for a UK passport/visa etc.<BR><BR>http://www.britainincanada.org/Passport/index.htm<BR><BR>However, passports themselves are restricted to those whose mothers or fathers were UK citizens, not to grandchildren. <BR><BR>As a grandchild, you may not be able to get a passport but you will be able to get a passport stamp from the UK Embassy called &quot;Certificate of Right of Abode&quot;, This patriality stamp gives you the right to pass freely into the UK and work there (but not vote). <BR><BR>The forms to apply for this Certificate are also available at the URL I gave you. <BR><BR>I have an Australian friend who got his certificate on the strength of a grandfather who was born in Sligo and died in Oz. Like you, my friend had no birth certificate for his grandfather. He made the trip to Ireland and searched through the parish registers in Sligo. Although ultimately successful, it turned out to be quite a search because his grand-dad had lied about his age !<BR><BR>I don't think you will need death certificates. But you will need your grandfather's birth certificate, record of his marriage to your grandmother, record of the birth of the child who was your parent and (if male) record of his marriage to your mother as well as your own birth certificate.<BR><BR>This is laborious but worth doing (been there, dunnit, for my own dual citizenship. <BR><BR>The US has allowed Americans to have dual citizenship for some 15 years now and I know lots of Americans who have done this.<BR><BR>Good luck

StCirq

Erica:<BR><BR>I have held Irish citizenship since 1985. I can't help you with how to get the information on your grandparents (well, maybe I can - I got my grandparetn' birth records through the church records of the parish they lived in), but I can tell you that the Irish Embassy is dead serious about providing whatever information it asks for - and it's a lot of information, and it all needs to be notarized and witnessed up the wazoo! I know - I've been on the phone with them for 3 weeks putting together the final application for my husband to obtain citizenship through me.<BR><BR>I should use this opportunity to clarify something I erroneously posted a few days ago - the deadline of November 29 of this year to file with the Irish Embassy applies only to persons applying for citizenship through an Irish spouse, not through parents or grandparents.<BR><BR>And I've held two passports for 17 years. If the USA doesn't recognize my Irish one, that's OK. I've still got it. It's a completely different situation from that of a child with parents of two nationalities who has to decide at age 18 which he wants to be.<BR><BR>Good luck in your search. EU citizenship and an EU passport can be very useful things to have.

Ira

Erin wrote<BR><BR>&gt;I know that the Mormon Church has the largest collection of geneaology history, even on non-Mormon families (I don't know why this is). &lt;<BR><BR> The LDS permits persons to be posthumously baptized into their faith.

duality

I've just checked a detail about UK 'Right of Abode' as described in my earlier posting. This is only available to Commonwealth Citizens. And UK passports are not available to grandchildren. <BR><BR>So while the info I posted is useless for you (sorry !), maybe it will help someone else.

Jack

I'm Italian,<BR><BR>Any such arrangement with the Italians?

sue

I am not absolutely sure about this, but I think there are differences within Europe. My neighbor is Swedish and she can not be a citizen of both countries, nor can her children after their age of 18. On the other hand I know that Italy, Irland,Greece and I am sure more, allow dual citizenship. Most of these countries will only let you go back as far as your grandparents. It is nice to have if you want to work in an other country or if you want to buy property. My husband got his Greek citizenship, becasue we would like to by an apratment to use in the summer. this makes it easier. I am from Boston and a lot of people here have dual with Ireland. Good luck.

Will

The following is an interesting article discussing aspects of this subject:<BR><BR>http://www.newhavenregister.com/site/news.cfm?BRD=1281&amp;dept_id=31007&amp;newsid=609 2141&amp;PAG=461&amp;rfi=9<BR><BR>(sorry if its address was too long for this window)

Josh

I agree with those who are saying you should stick with the Red, White and Blue.<BR><BR>No offense to any other country but when there is a problem in the world who are you going to run to for protection? Ireland? Denmark? Peru? I think not. U S of A!!!!! Don't dilute the patriotism that so many have fought for. Stand up and be counted as an American.<BR><BR>Thank you.

StCirq

There are only a couple, at most a handful, of European countries that offer the same deal as Ireland.<BR><BR>And for those who think this is some kind of patriotic issue, you're missing the point. An EU passport/citizenship is extremely useful for anyone who wants to work in Europe, stay in Europe longer than is permitted on a tourist visa, attend school in Europe, etc. If your patriotism is such that you would never consider such activities, skip this post. General, with your views, I would think it unadvisable even to travel in Europe, or anywhere outside the US borders for that matter.<BR><BR>Not to mention you can get in shorter lines at the airport and be assured of a baggage cart.

joanna

It is not the case that children that have more than one citizenship (including US) have to decide which one to keep when they are 18. <BR>P.S. I hope that as many people as possible become dual citizens so that this blind patriotism (chauvinism) decreases. Go for it, Erica!

StCirq

Joanna: It is the case that some children have to decide when they are 18. If each parent is from a different country that allows only single citizenship, the kids must make a choice at the age of 18. At least that is what I have been told is the case of the children of a French friend of mine who is married to a Hungarian.

Chloe

When I read General's post, I assumed it was ironic, but since others have posted similar (though less over-the-top) sentiments, I'm going to respond anyway.<BR><BR>The main purpose of dual or multiple citizenship is to allow an individual to legally retain citizenship rights in multiple countries to which that person has equally (and extremely) close ties. I have dual citizenship by birth, and have held both passports since I was a child. I have lived in both countries as a child and as an adult, attended school in both countries, and worked professionally in both countries. I have immediate family members who live in each country. <BR><BR>When we were children, my brothers and I heard our American friends say things like &quot;I'm half Irish and half German&quot; and, not realising that they were talking about ethnicity or heritage rather than nationality or citizenship, we started saying we were &quot;half British and half American&quot;. My parents explained to us that we were, in fact, 100% British and 100% American, with all the rights and responsibilities of any other citizen of the USA or the UK. <BR><BR>Anyone who holds citizenship of more than one country has a serious obligation to each of their countries - just as serious as if it were their only country. <BR><BR>I have no problem with people who claim or obtain a second or subsequent citizenship for what might seem like frivolous or purely practical purposes, either - if it's legal, and you're willing to understand &amp; live up to the obligations of both (or all) countries, why not? However, I have to point out for the skeptics and super-patriots: dual citizenship isn't in any way inherently anti-American or unpatriotic (for those who care about such things). In my experince, asking someone who is truly a dual citizen - especially by birth - to define themselves as one or other nationality is like showing a child a picture of his mother and father and asking which one is his parent.

StCirq

Nice post, Chloe.

Leslie

Here is the information for New Jersey:<BR><BR>Vital Statistics<BR>Division of Management and Administration<BR>State Department of Health and Senior Services<BR>John Fitch Plaza<BR>Room 504<BR>Health &amp; Agricultural Building<BR>PO Box 370<BR>Trenton, NJ 08625-4292<BR><BR>Tel: 609-292-4087<BR>Fax: 609-392-4292<BR><BR>Internet: www.state.nj.us/health/vital/vital.htm<BR><BR>Births, deaths, marriages. Expedited service available through a company called Vital Chek, for a $9.95 additional surcharge, plus $15.25 for express delivery if desired (billing through Visa, MasterCard or Discover). Order by phone 877-572-6342<BR><BR>When year of event is supplied search fee is $4.00 for one name. Search fee includes certified copy if found. Additional copies ordered at same time $2.00 per copy.

xxx

Erica - you may also want to check to see if your parents &quot;registered&quot; your name in, say, an Irish town (perhaps the home town of either of your grandparents). That can often serve as the basis for getting a 2nd citizenship.