vincenzo32951

Would appreciate your comments and ideas, and responses to my questionsregarding our upcoming trip to Venice and Varenna in the Lake Como area.

We arrive in Venice from the US on Aug. 26. Will spend 4 nights at the Starhotels Splendid. That choice was dictated by my having hotel points to use up. Would appreciate comments on any firsthand experiences with the hotel and best/worst rooms. We've been to Venice a few times, but any recs for restaurants and "hidden" attractions you liked would be much appreciated. Also, any money-saving tips. Are the various discount cards worth getting?

We plan to leave Venice on Aug. 30 for Varenna as our ultimate destination. Any recs you have about food, day trips and sights in the Lakes area would be appreciated

Question 1: Our plan is to rent a car at Marco Polo. We chose that locale because (a) we'll be returning to MC to fly out (tried to return via Milan; couldn't make it work) and (b) the prices and options were better than at Piazzale Roma. The cost of renting the car until our return on Sep, 7 is about $500. Two round-trip train tickets would be a total of about $360. It seems that the flexibility of having the car for day trips plus getting to Varenna faster would make the car seem worth it, instead of the train. Or am I missing something?

Question 2: Assuming we rent the car. Our accommodation in Var (just outside of town, actually) for Aug. 31-Sep. 7 is the Camilla apartment rented by Marilena. It gets good reviews on TripAdvisor and elsewhere, and she's been very responsive with info and assistance. Also, there's parking there. That means we have a free night (Aug. 30) between Ve and Var. At first, we thought we'd spend an extra night in Venice, but now our thought is to stay somewhere in between Ve and Var, Where? We're considering a wine-country agriturismo but don't know which one. Most of them are not on the straight-line route between the two places, but I'm not going to obsess about a few extra miles and hours. If you can recommend anything, agriturismo or otherwise, that would be great.

On Sep. 7, we head back to Venice. We have an a.m. flight on Sep. 8, so our plan is to stay at the Titian Hotel near the airport for the night of the 7th. We've stayed there before and found it convenient and a good value.

Thanks

Dukey1

I can understand the desire for a car especially if your accommodation is kinda outside Varenna.

However, I will ask just where did you get those price quotes for rail services between Venice and Varenna? I just looked on the Trenitalia.com site and found significantly lower prices.

However, the train trip from Santa Lucia to Varenna takes about 4.5 hours including a change in Milan (which is NOT hard to do).

I also assume you have figured in the cost of rental insurance (if any) and fuel.

I am not against the car idea because it does give you a greater degree of flexibility. You can take it on some of the ferries which run around the lake or you can leave it parked and take the ferries without it. Frankly, renting a car just to park it always seems like a waste of money to me.

NYCFoodSnob

Sorry, but you're not going to like what I have to say.

I think Marilena is a nightmare of a service rep. I wouldn't trust her as far as I could throw her, and I will never do business with her again. I have warned many friends to avoid her at all costs. Last I heard from very reliable city sources, all her rentals are illegal, and I fully trust my sources. Meaning: she operates in the shade. One can only wonder why any owner would list with her (but her inventory hasn't changed much through the years). There are plenty of registered homes to pick from, although some might be higher in price. It is not difficult to verify my information with business locals in Varenna. Marilena is a well known local and her reputation is nothing new. She's been around a long time.

A rental car in Varenna is kind of a waste of money. But if you are not staying directly in the tiny city of Varenna, you will be better off with a car, especially if parking is included in the rental. A car will give you the chance to explore higher elevations, but driving and parking on certain days can prove to be a royal pain in the butt and eat up a ton of precious time. The beautiful thing about visiting Lake Como: if you plan your trip with a little care, you simply do not need a rental car to completely enjoy your visit.

vincenzo32951

Thanks for comments.

NYC: no money has changed hands yet with Marilena so I'm open to ideas. Not to say I don't believe you, but in a lot of searching, I cannot find one negative comment about her (other than yours, that is). Do you have any examples?

Also, thanks to both for comments re renting a car. I am torn about this, as I would prefer public transportation. Haven't made any irreversible decisions, so I'll think about it.

vincenzo32951

Dukey: sorry, missed your question about train fares.

I gave up on the Trenitalia site after several tries. The Rail Europe site lists first class fares r/t Venice-Ravenna for about $175 pp. welcome any info you have on the subject.

Jean

Where do you plan to go on Lake Como that you believe a car will make it easier? Although parking at your lodging is free, have you included the cost of parking anywhere else to your calculations?

I prefer to stay directly in a town with ferry service, and Varenna has the bonus of train service as well. You can train from Varenna to Morbegno and Sondrio in the mountains in less than an hour or to Tirano near the Swiss border in about 90 minutes.

Not sure what your problem with the Trenitalia website is... I found per person one-way fares from Venice S.L. to Varenna-Esino on Aug. 30 and Aug. 31 for 58 euros (1st class to Milan) or 44 euros (2nd class to Milan). (The trains to Varenna are 2nd class only.) Was the RailEurope quote for round-trip tickets? RE has higher fares because they're making their own profit on each sale.

If you wanted to forego the car, you could spend the in-between night in Bergamo and explore both the basso and alto parts of the town which are connected by funiculars. Train from Venice S.L. to Bergamo via Brescia and then from Bergamo to Varenna via Lecco.

vincenzo32951

Jean: thank you.
Yes, the figure I quoted was r/t. So if your figures are correct, 116 euros 1st class r/t. That's about $160, right? So the Rail Europe charge is slightly higher, but not an astronomical difference. (I must be doing something wrong with Trenitalia.)

No, I haven't factored in parking, etc. Nor have I factored in the cost of the trains for day trips. So they might cancel out.

I'm still not sure about the car, so appreciate your comments and ideas.

Dukey1

RE is a marketing arm owned by two of the European railroads; their ticket prices aren't always the best.

if you are having trouble with the Trenitalia site go to Italiarail.com which gives the exact same schedules and prices but charges a small fee (I think perhaps $5.00.

Assume you know the earlier you book the better the prices will be.

The trains to Varenna-Esino are, as has been noted, mostly 2nd class seats and that trip from Milan takes not quite 1.5 hours each way.

I honestly think you could easily get around with a car at the lake but a lot of that depends on exactly where on the lake you want to go. Expect to use the ferry system at the lake for your transportation as opposed to using a car.

Dukey1

Sorry, should have said you can get around without a car.

vincenzo32951

Thanks. I'm going to italiarail, and also maybe give Trenitalia another try.

vincenzo32951

Woo-hoo! Got it to work. Used my laptop this time; must have been doing something wrong when I tried with the iPad.

Confirms Jean's figures: 58 euros one way (116 r/t), with 1st class between Venice and Milan.

NYCFoodSnob

I doubt you would find out what I know via reviews. Most tourists who deal with that woman and her properties are looking for the cheapest deals. They probably don't suspect anything until perhaps they meet her or something goes terribly wrong. She is two-faced and crazy, in a bipolar kind of way. Her small local clan of groopies are of a certain type. Some say she has a questionable relationship with cats, as in collector. At times, you might think she's trying to look like one. I'm quite sure if you ask her if her rental properties are legal, you will see her other face appear within seconds. It can get very ugly fast.

I know what I know because I dealt with her years ago. I was involved in a symposium held at Villa Monastero. Several attendees were looking for additional accommodations and without proper knowledge, I inquired about her business. The business I worked for did not want to deal with illegal house rentals due to insurance requirements. So when I asked her specific legal questions, she went bonkers. It was a terrible display of unprofessional behavior. I work with many people in real estate and I never experienced anything like this woman. As I got to know business locals in Varenna, I asked about the cat woman and her properties. Few tourists are going to hear what I heard.

As much as I love Italy, there is an aspect of society that I choose not to support in business. For me, it really is that simple. I can't turn my back to it. Many tourists don't have much choice, because they don't know any better. Since I know better, I choose to do business with people who operate legally, obey the local laws, and aren't crazy.

There are very few fabulous vacation rental properties in Varenna. I don't have time to explain why. The best vacation rentals on Lake Como are very clean, offering unobstructed views of the lake with extremely comfortable outdoor furniture. Some homes offer a pool and free garage parking. The better homes offer better interior decoration. Still, there are some owners who offer cheaper units, and those units are registered with the local government. I don't think it's that difficult to find out who these renters are if you make the appropriate inquiry. I hear the owners of Albergo Milano offer their customers a list when they are fully booked.

The car decision should be based on where you decide to stay and what exactly you must see. It's well known that I visit Lake Como every August for my birthday. I start my visit at Villa d'Este and I end my stay in Varenna. I will be there again this year.

Sometimes I rent a car, always an automatic. The hills are way too steep to be dealing with a clutch at a stop sign, when someone behind you is parked on your bumper. Rental cars of any kind are difficult to get around the lake in August because the rental offices in Lecco and Como close for vacation. Unless you plan your rental around their vacation dates (good luck getting those precise dates), you need to get a car from elsewhere. I tend to rely on MXP, but the prices are increasing every year, and I happen to think they are insane, considering how little I use the car.

Varenna has a new parking garage across the street from Villa Monastero. So parking in Varenna did get easier. But the costs add up, and then you have to pay attention to the time.

The truth is, you don't need a car to see a lot of what the lake has to offer, especially if you stay in-town. I'm a city girl, so the local charm matters to me.

The ferry system is wonderful, and most famous places are walking distance from the ferry docks. Crossing the lake with a car can get costly. Roundtrip fares add up quickly. And then you have to watch the clock at night to make sure you don't miss the last car ferry. Sometimes, I just say no to the stress of having a car. While other times I want to hang out at the top of mountains and photograph the sky. The decision for the car absolutely depends on what I wish to accomplish. It's difficult to know that unless you've visited as many times as I have.

vincenzo32951

Believe me, I'm paying attention to your comments about Marilena, but they're hard to digest when there's no example of a single complaint by a customer and they're based mainly on your one-on-one encounters. Also, your comment about making "appropriate inquiry" about reliable accommodations is perplexing, when you don't mention specifics.

You may be totally right, but I still don't see any evidence of it.

Anyway, I didn't want this to turn into a debate. Thanks for your comments.

NYCFoodSnob

<i><font color=#555555>"but they're hard to digest when there's no example of a single complaint by a customer"</font></i>

Years ago, complaints could be found. I remember reading a VRBO review where the customer complained about cat hair everywhere. I can't explain any lack of negative reviews currently. She's very experienced putting on a good face. Like I said, ask her if her apartments are registered as vacation rentals and see what happens.

When people cover their old, tattered furniture with bed sheets and not one customer in the last ten years complains, what can anyone say about that? Not one person had any criticism over how the place smells? Some of us know a red flag(s) when we see one.

<i><font color=#555555>"they're based mainly on your one-on-one encounters"</font></i>

When I talk about travel, all I have is my own personal experience. Take it or leave it.

<i><font color=#555555>"You may be totally right, but I still don't see any evidence of it."</font></i>

My comments have nothing to do with being "totally right." As for evidence, I'm not a trial lawyer presenting a case.

All I can do is share my personal experience. I have no desire to control how other travelers wish to spend their money. That's up to you to decide. Personally, I think the interior of Camilla House is god-awful ugly. There's no terrace or patio. If that's your idea of a beautiful place to stay in one of the most beautiful places on earth, then there it is.

vincenzo32951

>>Take it or leave it.<<
Thanks, but I don't think I need your permission for that.

>>As for evidence, I'm not a trial lawyer presenting a case.<<
That's taking an awfully narrow view of the term.

>>When I talk about travel, all I have is my own personal experience.<<
That's exactly my point. You never gave any specifics about "your own personal experience." It was mostly about "oh, you should hear what others say about her."

I asked you for experiences and actual negatives with her apartment, and now you come up with the cat-hair story. Great. I wish you had just mentioned that earlier instead of a some vague personality clash.

I'm going to let this go and make my best judgment. You'll probably want to respond. Go for it.

NYCFoodSnob

Enjoy your stay in Fiumelatte, vincenzo, which by the way is not Varenna. Fiumelatte is one town south. Since your gratitude for travel experience is sorely lacking, I will refrain from adding one more word to your queries.

annhig

Vincenzo - I have no idea whether NYFS's remarks are valid or not, but you can probably find officially sanctioned apartment rentals through the local tourist board office:

http://www.turismo.provincia.lecco.it/en/lodging

I have never stayed on Lake Como but I have spent a week on Garda and 2 weeks on Maggiore and in neither location did we need or want a car - so that might help with that decision; I like the idea of overnighting in Bergamo en route.

working backwards to your first query about Venice itself, if I had three days in Venice and had not been there before, I would do something like this:

Day 1 - Basilica [make a reservation in advance] Secret Tour of the Doge's palace [ditto] lunch. Then catch a vaporetto over to the island of San Giorgio and climb the tower [cheaper and less crowded than the San Marco version and the view is just as good] and use the vaporetti to hop along the Guidecca [which should be in shade] and the Zattere, [which should be sunny] as you wish, then wend your way back to your hotel for a rest.

Day 2 - up early for the Rialto market, then explore the Santa Croce/San Polo districts especially the Frari church and nearby Grand Scuola di San Rocco. in the pm, depending on your tastes, you could see either the Accademia, and/or the Ca' Rezzonico and/or the Guggenheim, or take your swimming togs to the lido.

Day 3 - take the vaporetto across the lagoon to Burano and Torcello [I'm not a fan of Murano but you might like to see it] but before you get on the boat, do nip round the corner from the vaporetto stop on the Fondamenta nuove to see the curtains in the Gesuiti Church. Why? Because as you stand there looking at them you will see that amazingly, that they are made of marble. [sorry, I've given it away now, but you might not go, otherwise!] The ferry to Torcello goes from the pontoon next to where the vaporetto stops on Burano - you can either get it straight away, and reckon on having lunch on Torcello, or stay on Burano and get it after lunch. but what you can't do is to take the ferry for an hour or so over the lunch-hour, as in Italy it is sacrosanct, and the ferry-driver needs his lunch just like you do! There are good restaurants on both islands so you won't starve.

it is well worth making the effort to get to Torcello - the Basilica with its 1000 year old mosaics is amazing. o the way back, you could get off at Murano, or stay on the vaporetto and get off at the Giardino stop [if it goes that way] and walk back through a part of Venice where many venetians live. Alternatively get off at Arsenale and wander back through Castello.

There are of course many other ways in which you could spend 3 days in Venice and you might not see any of the things that I have mentioned and still have a wonderful time.

Have a great trip.

vincenzo32951

I had to revisit this post for two reasons:
1. Thanks, ann. I did know about some of what you provided (have been to Venice before), but some of your other recs were valuable, especially about Torcello, which we hadn't visited before. Appreciate the detail.
2. The apartment that NYC was so maniacal about worked out great. We knew it was in Fiumellate -- friends had visited Varenna and got us oriented regarding towns, etc. The woman who owns the apartment is a bit eccentric but couldn't have been more accommodating. She picked us up at the train station and drove us there when we left. Plus, she gave us a cell phone with her number and said if we gave her 30 minutes' notice, she'd pick us up anywhere in the area and drive us to where we needed to go. (We took her up on it twice.) The apartment is a bit outside of town, about a 30-minute walk -- but the positives outweigh that -- nice, clean, modern, great views of the lake and mountains.

annhig

Hi vincenzo - glad that you had a good time and that some of what I wrote helped. Torcello is indeed a gem - perhaps we should keep it to ourselves so as to keep it that way!

also glad about the apartment - i suspected and hoped that that might be the case. We hear remarkably few 1st hand apartment horror stories here, but quite a few third hand ones.