shoonye

Looking for thoughts and suggestions on the following itinerary. I will be traveling with my wife and nearly 2 yr old daughter between mid-Apr and mid-May.

Day 0 Arrive in Shanghai
Day 1 Shanghai
Day 2 Shanghai
Day 3 Shanghai - Xian (overnight train)
Day 4 Xian
Day 5 Xian - Beijing (overnight train)
Day 6 Beijing
Day 7 Beijing
Day 8 Beijing
Day 9 Trans-Sibieran
Day 10 Ulan Bator
Day 11 Ulan Bator (Ger Tour for next two nights)
Day 12 Ulan Bator
Day 13 Ulan Bator
Day 14 Trans-Sibieran
Day 15 Irkutsk
Day 16 Irkutsk
Day 17 Fly to St Petersburg
Day 18 St Petersburg
Day 19 St Petersburg
Day 20 St Petersburg
Day 21 Moscow - St Petersburg
Day 22 Moscow
Day 23 Moscow
Day 24 Moscow
Day 25 Moscow
Day 26 Moscow - MSP

Smart3

Looks like a great trip. However, I think it would be advisable not to visit Irkutsk, and go straight from Ulan Bator to St. Petersburg. Especially with a 2 year old.

kja

Amazing trip!

You might want to consider taking one day from Moscow and adding it to St. Petersburg, but that depends on what you want to see and experience.

shoonye

Thanks for the responses.

Smart3 - why do you suggest avoiding Irkutsk. I'm perfectly fine to revise the itinerary but just wanted to know the reasons / risks why one should not be visiting Irkutsk with a 2 yr old. I thought Lake Baikal and environs might be interesting to visit.

shoonye

Kja, thats a good thought and easily adjusted. Let me read up some more on St Petersburg and Moscow and the activities we plan to do there. Any out of the ordinary recommendations on things to do other than the usual.

islasher

My only thoughts on your plans is that you really need to check what the weather will be like in Mongolia and Siberia during Mid April. I took the trans-siberian from Ulan Bator to Moscow a few years back. We froze in our Ger camp in Mongolia - in fact we were the first people for the season. The day time temperature was fine - but at night it really dropped, we had to continually add wood to our stove throughout the night. Also - Lake Baikal was still frozen, you could see people out fishing on the ice. We passed through this area around April 28th. Didn't really live up to its description because it was still frozen. The upside to travel during this time frame - absolutly no lines throughout Moscow or St. Petersburg. However, the ferry out to Peterhof was not running yet - ice in the gulf of Finland. Have a great trip - I would love to do the trip again. I would add a stop in Kateringburg.

thursdaysd

I preferred Moscow to St. Petersburg, so I wouldn't increase the time in St. P. Any reason to go to St. P before Moscow instead of after? And if you're taking the train between them, you could stop off in Novgorod.

Agree with the need to check the temps in Mongolia - it was freezing in my Ger in September... BTW - that route is the Trans-Mongolian, the Trans-Siberian is Moscow to Vladivostok.

RainyDay09

I would think it is still cold in Mongolia and Siberia in April. Plus, check the quality of accommodations on the train. I think it is fine for adults, but it might be tough on your 2 year old. I don't know how it is now, but Russian trains used to be awfully drafty in the 1990s.

shoonye

Thanks everyone. Due to weather/temperature concerns I have revised my itinerary to spend more time in China and less in Ulan Bator and Irkutsk. The updated itinerary is as below

Thursday: The reason for visiting Petersburg first is so we can be in Moscow for the May 9 Victory Parade.

Day 0 Arrive in Shanghai
Day 1 Shanghai
Day 2 Shanghai
Day 3 Shanghai
Day 4 Fly to Guilin
Day 5 Guilin
Day 6 Guilin
Day 7 Guilin - Xian
Day 8 Xian
Day 9 Xian - Beijing
Day 10 Beijing
Day 11 Beijing
Day 12 Beijing
Day 13 Depart Beijing on Trans-Sibieran
Day 14 Arrive in Ulan Bator
Day 15 Ulan Bator
Day 16 Trans-Sibieran
Day 17 Irkutsk
Day 18 Fly to St Petersburg
Day 19 St Petersburg
Day 20 St Petersburg
Day 21 St Petersburg
Day 22 St Petersburg - Moscow Overnight Train
Day 23 Arrive in Moscow
Day 24 Moscow
Day 25 Moscow
Day 26 Moscow - MSP

thursdaysd

Well, I would spend longer in Irkutsk, and I wouldn't worry about the temperature so much there - it's trying to sleep in a ger when it's really a problem.

Personally I'm not a fan of Shanghai or of Guilin and would spend less time in both places and more in other places in China - suggest you post that part of your itinerary on the Asia bard for more feedback.

shoonye

Thursday - thats a good idea. I will post in China as well. What other destinations do you suggest in China.

On Irkutsk I'm getting really conflicting information (including that on lonely planet and elsewhere) where some are saying to skip or really spend only a day because at this time of the year lake baikal will still be frozen.

thursdaysd

Well, if it's frozen you could go for a sled ride. I traveled through Siberia in autumn, and loved the gold-and-green foliage, but I really want to go back and ride the Trans-Siberian (to Vladivostok) when there's snow on the ground. Just wrap your little one up well - I hear that they keep the train really warm, and the local kids certainly manage. You should be able to buy warm clothes easily in Russia - and probably in Beijing, it gets pretty cold there in winter.

At that time of year I'd probably go south in China - the Kunming area, or eve further south-west.

islasher

I agree with Thursdaysd - Guilin is really only worth a day and a half - but maybe I am missing something. I loved Shanghai but I stayed with friends and had access to their personal driver - I sure that makes a difference. Also you are right Thursdaysd- I took the trans - Mongolian not Siberian. We all found out the diffence on the train. No Showers (we were in first class car), No food (train sold the food to the Mongolians on the train and the girls who worked the train cooked the food for them) and lots of Mongolian traders on the train to sell their "products" at every train stop accross russia. It was a blast - good thing we bought cheap vodka in Ulan Bator and purchased food along the way.

thursdaysd

islasher - I don't travel first class, but hardly any trains have showers even in first unless you're on one of those ridiculously expensive tourist trains. Actually, I though it was only the Mongolian leg of the Trans-Siberian/Mongolian/Manchurian routes that even had first class carriages. I rode a series of more local trains across Russia as I kept getting off, and I did try a restaurant car - once... I ate a lot of salami and cheese sandwiches, lol!

BTW - my TR for the Trans-Mongolian is here: http://wilhelmswords.com/rtw2004/index.html

shoonye

Just thought I would give an update on a few topics here

a) Our child thoroughly enjoyed all the train travel in China and Mongolia. Particularly the Trans-Mongolian from Ulan Bator to Irkutsk. There were a lot of friendly and interesting people on the train and we loved the experience.

b) Mongolia end of April was cold but not still quite pleasant. We actually increased our time in the country and are glad we did. It was our favorite destination. We (including our daughter) did a lot of activities including horse riding and camel riding our in the national park 90 mins away from Ulan Bator

c) We really liked our stay in Irkutsk and would absolutely recommend it to everyone. Again we had fantastic weather with sunny blue skies. The stay overlooking lake Baikal was unforgettable (and the lake was not in fact frozen where we were although it so large it could be frozen at other spots)

d) We followed the advice and did not stay in Guilin electing to stay instead at Yangshuo. Excellent recommendation - it was our favorite place visited in China.

kja

Thanks for the update! Are you home or mid-journmey?

shoonye

We are back home and plotting the next adventure already