isabel

I am planning a trip for summer 2013. Total about a month, first two weeks in France, then about five days on Italian Riviera between Genova and Portovenere. After that is my question. I was thinking a few days around Aosta and then up to Lake Geneva but so far my research is showing that it's not very easy to get from Aosta up into Switzerland. And I'm also wondering how easy it is to get around the area itself. The town of Aosta sounds sort of interesting, and there's a castle nearby that looks intriguing (Castello Di Fenis ), and I'd want to go to Breuil-Cervinia & the Matterhorn. It all looks possible by public transport, but not sure if the whole area would be better to wait till a trip when I'd have a car. It just seemed that if I were going from Genoa to Lausanne that Aosta is right smack in between them. But maybe it's not unless you have a car.

So - is the area 'worth' it? Am I missing something in terms of public trans (I've been checking train routes on the trenitalia site and the sbb site)? If I did go, any suggestions for number of days or specific itinerary.

PalenQ

then up to Lake Geneva but so far my research is showing that it's not very easy to get from Aosta up into Switzerland.>

I believe there are regular buses thru the Mont Blanc Tunnel to Chamonix and Geneva.

And for a thrilling way to get to Chamonix you can take a train or bus to Pre-St-Didier and take one of the world's most thrilling aerial cable ways over a sea of ice for miles to the Aguille de Midi where you transfer to a large gondola that plunges down to Chamonix - which has bus and train links to Geneva - one route taking the awesomely scenic train from Chamonix to Martigny in Switzerland, on a main rail line to Geneva via Montreux.

For lots of great stuff on the aerial cableways and trains in that area I always spotlight these IMO great sites - www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com.

goldenautumn

i don't know what you are counting as summer. Reliably warm and dry weather in the valle d'Aosta is best after June 22, not before.

I did not find the castle Fenis very interesting. Although like many castles in the area it has a quite picturesque exterior, the interior is a 19th restoration, sort of dolled up a bit to be a historic re-creation. It does have some original interior frescoes, but like all castles, it is basically a fortified security "box", meant to protect the rich so-and-so inside, without a lot of architectural interest.

Aosta is to me a really wonderful, underrated small city, with interesting variety, but it is very small. I didn't take the cable car over Mont Bland (MonteBianco) but it is quite a sight on a clear day from Pre St Didier, which is easily reached from Aosta by train, and could make for a scenic lunch outing (perhaps combine with a stop in Morgex?)

I had a car to take me beyond Aosta, and for me the real joy of being in the area was taking long walks through the flower filled valleys. If you can get a bus to one of the towns near the Matterhorn, and if you like walking, then I don't think you will miss having a car.

I don't know how you are thinking of getting from France to the Italian Riviera. Rather than break up the trip in Genoa, consider breaking it up in Albenga, a town of exceptional charm on the Riviera. Get a place to stay in the historic center. Visit Alassio from there as well. If you would like some time in Genoa, you can see it enroute to the Riviera Levante by stowing your luggage in Brignole station.

If you stay in Portovenere you will need a car. Better to stay in a town on the train line. If you don't want the super-touristy towns of le Cinque Terre or their steepness, consider Sestri Levante.

nytraveler

We did an overnight at Aosta as part of a summer road trip and definitely enjoyed the town - especially the Roman ruins (and the big event of the weekend - a demolition derby). Drive into Switzerland was charming (except for the tunnel) and we went on to visit Chamonix and Mont Blanc.

But I can't imagine trying to visit the area without a car.

isabel

Thanks for the input. I'm think I'm leaning against it. There's a lot of northern Italy I want to do that would be best with a car so I guess I need to schedule a driving trip. Perhaps next year. So I'll probably go from the coast to Milan to Switzerland.

Pal - that looks pretty interesting, but I guess I should concentrate on things I can do from a base in Switzerland for this trip.

Golden - I'm planning on dropping the car (which I will have had in France) and taking the train from Nice to where ever I base in Italy. Right now I'm leaning towards Santa Marguerita - I want to visit Portovenere (but I agree it doesn't make a good base without a car), CT, Portofino, and Genova. Albenga also looks interesting but I need to limit myself in some way (this trip is already at 33 days, which I think is my limit).

goldenautumn

The train line between Santa Margherita Ligure and Genova is slow and unappealing. If you really want to see Genova, consider taking the Inter-City line from Nice to Genova and spending a night there (or getting there early to stow your luggage at the train station and moving on in early evening) rather than thinking that you will be willing to back track from Santa Margherita Ligure once you get there.

Since you are are traveling in summer, you also have the option of staying in Camogli and using ferries to get you to Portofino, or Rapallo, in addition to Santa Margherita Ligure (which also offers a bus to Portofino). The best approach to Portofino is by boat.

It's not impossible to visit Portovenere without a car, or even stay there, but it helps if you are prepared to take a taxi to or from the La Spezia train station if need be. Be prepared to be sharing space with large numbers of cruise ship tourists in summer in Portovenere, Santa Margherita Ligure and Portofino. It can be fun to give them the slip by staying on other towns.

isabel

According to trenitalia it's only an hour from Santa Margherita to Genova. Am I missing something. I was planning on using boats as much as possible to get around but want there to be the possibility of trains if needed. I'm trying to not have too many one night stays (the whole trip is 33 nights) so would rather do Genova as a day trip. Is there any other reason you would choose Camogli over Santa Margherita. We stayed in Camogli the only other time we've been to the area (ten years ago) and I did like it, was just looking for someplace different. But I'm open to staying in Camogli (or elsewhere) if it makes more sense.

schnauzer

We spent the night in Aosta a few years ago. I had high hopes... (not sure of what exactly) but it didn't deliver. A bit of a non event to be honest. Wouldn't go out of my way to get there, particularly without a car.

Schnauzer

goldenautumn

It is a very subjective preference between Camogli and Santa Margherita Ligure. I just prefer to be away from the high density of cruise ship and other tourists who are looking to get to Portofino. But if you have already been to Camogli, it makes sense to want something different, even though the fruit-sorbet-colored towns along the coast really don't vary much at all.

If you would like something genuinely different and particularly delicious, consider staying in Chiavari. In summer, it is possible to take a boat from there to both Portofino and Santa Margherita Ligure (as well as to le Cinque Terre, but that is a long boat ride). Alas, it can be hard to track down a good hotel there, but maybe things are getting better. Food in Chiavari is unusually good for the scenic coast, and like Bologna it has streets with porticoes, which are shady and cool in summer.

Regarding seeing Genova as a day trip from Santa Margherita Ligure, if you prefer not switching hotels, then you shouldn't. But in that case, i think it is worth the extra money to take an Inter-City train from Santa Margherita Ligure (or Chiavari) to Genova. The local regional trains do not have priority on the tracks (they wait in stations while the IC passes them by), and they are old trains that may not have working air conditioning. It's not the worst fate in the world to take a day trip to the city from the coast, but many people who have plans to do that end up skipping it once they are settled into their breezy resort-town stay. So that's why I suggested doing it enroute. But you might be more disciplined or motivated than most.

In summer, I suggest considering NOT booking a hotel room with a sea view, or at a hotel that directly fronts the sea. That section of the Riviera faces dead-on west, and in summer, it simply bakes in the blazing sun from 10am to 6pm. A hotel in the shady alleyways with a back garden can be deliciously cool.

In Santa Margherita Liguria, the additional problem with seafront hotels is that, unlike Camogli, the seafront is not pedestrianized and open to motor traffic. In Chiavari, both the motor road and the train tracks run right along the sea. If you are coming to the Riviera with your heart set on a hotel room with a sea view, then pedestrianized Camogli does offer the most tranquil experience of that from a handful of hotels or b&bs at the seafront.

By the way, I hope Schnauzer's remarks don't discourage you from visiting the valle d'Aosta some day. The town itself is remarkable for history and art in multiple layers, and the scenery is exceptional. The unique ambience of the valle d'Aosta in its quiet valleys, and its food and wine, make it an extremely special, sophisticated culture, so much of it spared mass tourism. It is off the beaten track but with very good amenities and great beauty.

isabel

Glad to hear I won't be missing much by skipping Aosta this trip. I'll try to get there next time.

Golden - thanks for your thoughts, very helpful. I think you are right about hotels in shady alleyways versus the beach. And after just a very quick look at hotels in Santa Margherita there doesn't seem too much that appeals to me. I was starting to look at Rapallo. I know it's a larger town. Does it have any ambiance at all? And I will still consider Camogli.

I love your term "more disciplined or motivated". Actually I think that does describe my travel style. Many of my travel companions do not consider that to be a positive attribute.

I was planning to start a separate thread to help with my planning of the coastal portion of my trip, but you have answered many of my questions.