12 days in Germany - Berlin, Dresden, Boppard and Cochem
Jan 17th, 2014, 12:36 AM
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
12 days in Germany - Berlin, Dresden, Boppard and Cochem
We are visiting Germany in August and had planned to spend 3 nights in each town. However this seems disproportionate somehow, especially for Berlin.
We are an "older" Australian couple. We've not been to Berlin or Dresden and missed the Rhine last year due to rising rivers on our Danube/Rhine cruise. Many people seem to think that the Mosel is prettier than the Rhine, hence the addition of Cochem. I know there are towns closer to the confluence of the two rivers from where we could visit both but opinion is divided on the benefits of using one or two towns as a base.
So I guess the actual questions are firstly, how to divide the 12 nights; secondly, one base or two for the Rhine/Mosel part of the itinerary.
We fly into Berlin mid afternoon day one, shall travel by train to all the other towns and train again to Frankfurt from where we depart around 7pm to return to Australia.
Thank you!
We are an "older" Australian couple. We've not been to Berlin or Dresden and missed the Rhine last year due to rising rivers on our Danube/Rhine cruise. Many people seem to think that the Mosel is prettier than the Rhine, hence the addition of Cochem. I know there are towns closer to the confluence of the two rivers from where we could visit both but opinion is divided on the benefits of using one or two towns as a base.
So I guess the actual questions are firstly, how to divide the 12 nights; secondly, one base or two for the Rhine/Mosel part of the itinerary.
We fly into Berlin mid afternoon day one, shall travel by train to all the other towns and train again to Frankfurt from where we depart around 7pm to return to Australia.
Thank you!
Jan 17th, 2014, 12:51 AM
#2
I'm not sure you need three whole days just for Dresden.
The rivers are pretty but rivers are in some ways just that: rivers; it might be the towns and the surrounding countryside that lend all the beauty. Have you considered taking one of the K-D Rhine cruises which only last a day?
Berlin: a lot to see and do but that "lot" totally depends upon your interests. You could IMO easily spend just a couple of days, if not more, doing the major museums and churches not to mention the various palaces both in the city and the nearby "suburbs" (e.g., Potsdam).
The rivers are pretty but rivers are in some ways just that: rivers; it might be the towns and the surrounding countryside that lend all the beauty. Have you considered taking one of the K-D Rhine cruises which only last a day?
Berlin: a lot to see and do but that "lot" totally depends upon your interests. You could IMO easily spend just a couple of days, if not more, doing the major museums and churches not to mention the various palaces both in the city and the nearby "suburbs" (e.g., Potsdam).
Jan 17th, 2014, 12:54 AM
#3
hi MRM,
not sure what you mean by disproportionate - too much or too little?
3 nights will only give you 2 whole days in each place and you have to factor travel time into your calculations, which means that as a rule of thumb, you lose half a day every time you move.
Berlin to Dresden is easy - you get the train - but how are you planning on getting from Dresden to Boppard? using bahn.de I searched for Dresden to both Boppard and Cochem and came up with the same travel times of approx 8 hours - so that's a whole day out of your not very long stay in Germany.
I would reduce the time you spend on the Rhein a little and give longer to Berlin, so that you get 3 whole days there. Something like this:
Day 1 - arrive Berlin mid afternoon, settle in.
Day 2 -4 - Berlin
Day 5 - train to Dresden [2-4 hours depending on which train you catch]
Day 6-7 - Dresden. Make sure that you do a boat trip while you are there!
Day 8 - train to Boppard. All day on train. Arrive early evening.
Day 9-11 - the Rhein.
Day 12 - travel to Frankfurt.
That's 12 nights. If I've misunderstood you, and you've got 13 nights, then obviously you'd add one to the Rhein.
BTW it only takes 6 hours from Berlin to Boppard - so you could consider going to Dresden straight from Berlin, going back to Berlin after Dresden and going to Boppard from Berlin, not Dresden.
If this doesn't give you long enough on the Rhein, then you could consider dropping Dresden, and doing perhaps Potsdam as a day trip. it's nothing like Dresden of course, but it's still a pretty nice place to visit.
Hope this helps!
not sure what you mean by disproportionate - too much or too little?
3 nights will only give you 2 whole days in each place and you have to factor travel time into your calculations, which means that as a rule of thumb, you lose half a day every time you move.
Berlin to Dresden is easy - you get the train - but how are you planning on getting from Dresden to Boppard? using bahn.de I searched for Dresden to both Boppard and Cochem and came up with the same travel times of approx 8 hours - so that's a whole day out of your not very long stay in Germany.
I would reduce the time you spend on the Rhein a little and give longer to Berlin, so that you get 3 whole days there. Something like this:
Day 1 - arrive Berlin mid afternoon, settle in.
Day 2 -4 - Berlin
Day 5 - train to Dresden [2-4 hours depending on which train you catch]
Day 6-7 - Dresden. Make sure that you do a boat trip while you are there!
Day 8 - train to Boppard. All day on train. Arrive early evening.
Day 9-11 - the Rhein.
Day 12 - travel to Frankfurt.
That's 12 nights. If I've misunderstood you, and you've got 13 nights, then obviously you'd add one to the Rhein.
BTW it only takes 6 hours from Berlin to Boppard - so you could consider going to Dresden straight from Berlin, going back to Berlin after Dresden and going to Boppard from Berlin, not Dresden.
If this doesn't give you long enough on the Rhein, then you could consider dropping Dresden, and doing perhaps Potsdam as a day trip. it's nothing like Dresden of course, but it's still a pretty nice place to visit.
Hope this helps!
Jan 17th, 2014, 01:45 AM
#4
good advice above, Dresden is a day trip. Boppard is relatively small but well placed on the Rhine, getting up to Cochem could be done by train or ferry. Do consider hiring bikes in either town, you can take bikes on local German trains and the ferry (small charge) and the combo makes for a good visit.
Jan 17th, 2014, 02:32 AM
#5
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,715
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We found Boppard a good size town for a 3 night stay. We took the train to St. Goar and Bacharach one day then cruised back. Another day, we went to Burg Eltz and onto Cochem. Both worth the trip.
The Mosel was pretty but I found the Rhine also nice and enjoyed watching all of the traffic. One advantage to Cochem may be an easier trip to Trier, if that interests you. We would have liked to include Trier but could not fit it in.
If you want the rivers to be the focus of the trip, you might stay in both towns. I would have been happy with more time for hiking.
But, if you are feeling a time crush in other areas, I would choose one town and make trips to the other.
The Mosel was pretty but I found the Rhine also nice and enjoyed watching all of the traffic. One advantage to Cochem may be an easier trip to Trier, if that interests you. We would have liked to include Trier but could not fit it in.
If you want the rivers to be the focus of the trip, you might stay in both towns. I would have been happy with more time for hiking.
But, if you are feeling a time crush in other areas, I would choose one town and make trips to the other.
Jan 17th, 2014, 02:39 AM
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you Dukey1, yes, we are definitely taking the KD Rhine cruise! 3 nights is actually only 2 days, so I might leave Dresden at 3 nights, but increase Berlin to 4 nights. I agree it's as much the river towns as the rivers themselves which are appealing. Clearly we'll have to reduce our river time, which perhaps makes a day trip to the Mosel more sensible, although 5 nights in Boppard seems excessive!
Thank you also annhig. By disproportionate I meant both too much and too little! eg too much time in Dresden, not enough in Berlin. And yes, I know 3 nights is only 2 days, which is why I like to have at least 3 nights wherever possible. (We have 12 nights in toto)
I confess I'd checked bahn.de for Berlin-Dresden and then the various towns along the rivers but I obviously overlooked the worst leg - Dresden-Boppard. In fact now that I look at it I wonder whether we may need to re-think the whole itinerary! Travelling to Boppard via Frankfurt (where we finish our trip) seems ridiculous!
Thank you also annhig. By disproportionate I meant both too much and too little! eg too much time in Dresden, not enough in Berlin. And yes, I know 3 nights is only 2 days, which is why I like to have at least 3 nights wherever possible. (We have 12 nights in toto)
I confess I'd checked bahn.de for Berlin-Dresden and then the various towns along the rivers but I obviously overlooked the worst leg - Dresden-Boppard. In fact now that I look at it I wonder whether we may need to re-think the whole itinerary! Travelling to Boppard via Frankfurt (where we finish our trip) seems ridiculous!
Jan 17th, 2014, 02:46 AM
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry bilboburgler and mama_mia, I just saw your replies. If Dreden's a day trip, then maybe we'll do that,have an extra night in Berlin. And if we limit ourselves to one river base (
Boppard) that also eases the "time crush" but still leaves the problem of how to get there!
From where did you both travel to Boppard?
Bikes - great idea, some friends did that and loved it - not sure about my husband's reaction!
Boppard) that also eases the "time crush" but still leaves the problem of how to get there!
From where did you both travel to Boppard?
Bikes - great idea, some friends did that and loved it - not sure about my husband's reaction!
Jan 17th, 2014, 03:32 AM
#8
If the whole getting to Boppard thing is too difficult you can ride a bike down the Mosel in about 5 days. Start at Trier and its down hill all the way with luggage moved for you every night, fine wines down the valley at little bars and local food to refill on. Tourist info at Trier can arrange the whole thing
Surprise your husband. ;-) http://www.mybikeguide.co.uk/Mosel_Guide.php
Surprise your husband. ;-) http://www.mybikeguide.co.uk/Mosel_Guide.php
Jan 17th, 2014, 08:35 AM
#10
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,906
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dresden is not just a day trip. You could easily keep yourself busy for some days there (on the other hand we do not know much about your interests). Not to mention day trips FROM Dresden.
Seems to me you're a big fan of river valleys. Definitely more scenic than the Rhine or Mosel river valleys is the Elbe river valley south of Dresden, named Saxon Switzerland. Dramatic, bizarre sandstone formations, picturesque little towns, castles etc. You can easily see this from the trains or paddle steamers, but make sure you go up to one of the flat-top mountains or other viewing points (Fortress Königstein or Bastei e.g.)
Seems to me you're a big fan of river valleys. Definitely more scenic than the Rhine or Mosel river valleys is the Elbe river valley south of Dresden, named Saxon Switzerland. Dramatic, bizarre sandstone formations, picturesque little towns, castles etc. You can easily see this from the trains or paddle steamers, but make sure you go up to one of the flat-top mountains or other viewing points (Fortress Königstein or Bastei e.g.)
Jan 17th, 2014, 04:32 PM
#11
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,228
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dukey1 writes, "Have you considered taking one of the K-D Rhine cruises which only last a day?:
MRM49 responds, "yes, we are definitely taking the KD Rhine cruise... I might leave Dresden at 3 nights, but increase Berlin to 4 nights... Travelling to Boppard via Frankfurt (where we finish our trip) seems ridiculous!"
I think 4 nights is best for Berlin. 3 nights for Dresden. That leaves 5 more nights. It is indeed a long trip to Boppard - 7.5 hours or so. Here's a thought. The Rhine Cruise does NOT take a whole day. Why not get off the train before Boppard in Bingen (the southern end of the most scenic cruise segment) and cruise north to Boppard? There's a 14:30 boat and a 16:30 boat, and the trip takes 2.25 hours (You would need to leave a little Dresden just after 7 am for the 14:30 boat, just after 9 am for the 16:30 boat.) There are good reasons to do it this way:
1.) Bingen - Boppard is the most scenic part.
2.) Cruising downstream from Bingen to Boppard is much faster than starting the cruise in Boppard.
3.) You won't have to travel all the way back to Bingen again (either by train or by boat.)
4.) You will experience the Rhine in the most scenic way the first time through; if you take the train to Boppard, which follows the riverbank and offers views of the river valley, you spoil the cruise experience a bit.
You'll pull into Boppard at 16:50 or 18:50; the docks are close to the old town area.
Look for a train schedule from Dresden to Bingen(Rhein)Stadt (Bingen has more than one station - this one is closest to the KD dock - maybe a 5-10 min. walk.)
Boppard is lovely town and actually a fine base if you have 4-5 nights there. Marksburg Castle in Braubach, Rheinfels Castle in St. Goar, Linz am Rhein (the most attractive Rhine village of all,) Cochem, Burg Eltz, Remagen (WW II museum) and the towns of Bacharach and Oberwesel are all doable daytrips. So is the amazing open-air museum in Bad Sobernheim (wonderful collection of historic buildings from around the region.)
Marksburg: www.marksburg.de
Linz: http://www.rheinhoehenlauf.de/images/vg_ahc0240.gif
Linzbrochure: http://www.linz.de/pdf/Linz_Prospekt_2007.pdf
Remagen museum: http://www.bruecke-remagen.de/
R-P open air museum: http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attractio...neland_Pa.html
Boppard is exceptional too because unlike most Rhine towns it sends off DIRECT trains to FRA airport on weekdays; the trip takes 1 - 1.25 hours and trains leave at 5:17, 5:43, 6:20, 6:29, 7:20, and 9:19 (on Sat or Sun only at 5:43; other trains take nearly 2 hours and involve one change of train.) So depending on your flight time, you may not even have to overnight at FRA or Mainz.
That said, Mainz is an excellent town to visit and stay overnight before a flight out - far better than a hotel at FRA. Direct trains from Mainz to FRA in the morning take about 25 minutes.
MRM49 responds, "yes, we are definitely taking the KD Rhine cruise... I might leave Dresden at 3 nights, but increase Berlin to 4 nights... Travelling to Boppard via Frankfurt (where we finish our trip) seems ridiculous!"
I think 4 nights is best for Berlin. 3 nights for Dresden. That leaves 5 more nights. It is indeed a long trip to Boppard - 7.5 hours or so. Here's a thought. The Rhine Cruise does NOT take a whole day. Why not get off the train before Boppard in Bingen (the southern end of the most scenic cruise segment) and cruise north to Boppard? There's a 14:30 boat and a 16:30 boat, and the trip takes 2.25 hours (You would need to leave a little Dresden just after 7 am for the 14:30 boat, just after 9 am for the 16:30 boat.) There are good reasons to do it this way:
1.) Bingen - Boppard is the most scenic part.
2.) Cruising downstream from Bingen to Boppard is much faster than starting the cruise in Boppard.
3.) You won't have to travel all the way back to Bingen again (either by train or by boat.)
4.) You will experience the Rhine in the most scenic way the first time through; if you take the train to Boppard, which follows the riverbank and offers views of the river valley, you spoil the cruise experience a bit.
You'll pull into Boppard at 16:50 or 18:50; the docks are close to the old town area.
Look for a train schedule from Dresden to Bingen(Rhein)Stadt (Bingen has more than one station - this one is closest to the KD dock - maybe a 5-10 min. walk.)
Boppard is lovely town and actually a fine base if you have 4-5 nights there. Marksburg Castle in Braubach, Rheinfels Castle in St. Goar, Linz am Rhein (the most attractive Rhine village of all,) Cochem, Burg Eltz, Remagen (WW II museum) and the towns of Bacharach and Oberwesel are all doable daytrips. So is the amazing open-air museum in Bad Sobernheim (wonderful collection of historic buildings from around the region.)
Marksburg: www.marksburg.de
Linz: http://www.rheinhoehenlauf.de/images/vg_ahc0240.gif
Linzbrochure: http://www.linz.de/pdf/Linz_Prospekt_2007.pdf
Remagen museum: http://www.bruecke-remagen.de/
R-P open air museum: http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attractio...neland_Pa.html
Boppard is exceptional too because unlike most Rhine towns it sends off DIRECT trains to FRA airport on weekdays; the trip takes 1 - 1.25 hours and trains leave at 5:17, 5:43, 6:20, 6:29, 7:20, and 9:19 (on Sat or Sun only at 5:43; other trains take nearly 2 hours and involve one change of train.) So depending on your flight time, you may not even have to overnight at FRA or Mainz.
That said, Mainz is an excellent town to visit and stay overnight before a flight out - far better than a hotel at FRA. Direct trains from Mainz to FRA in the morning take about 25 minutes.
Jan 18th, 2014, 06:33 PM
#12
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Russ, thank you that's an excellent thought! We knew to cruise downstream but had planned to take a train to Bingen/Rudesheim and cruise back to Koblenz, then train back to accommodation at Boppard. I like your idea much better; and we can see the Boppard to Koblenz section enroute to Cochem. My only qualm is that we'll have all our luggage with us, both on the short walk from the station to the dock and on the KD cruise itself. The luggage is 4 weeks' worth - goose down for Kirkenes, T-shirts for the Rhein valley and everything in between. Might be a bit cumbersome + KD cruises might not like it?
We fly out on a Saturday unfortunately, so no direct train. But our flight's not until the evening so we'll stay our last (12th) night in Boppard and even with the change of train will have stacks of time to get back to Frankfurt airport.
Thanks also for the helpful links.
I did really like the idea of staying in Cochem, but I'll have to concede on this one....
We fly out on a Saturday unfortunately, so no direct train. But our flight's not until the evening so we'll stay our last (12th) night in Boppard and even with the change of train will have stacks of time to get back to Frankfurt airport.
Thanks also for the helpful links.
I did really like the idea of staying in Cochem, but I'll have to concede on this one....
Jan 18th, 2014, 10:29 PM
#14
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,906
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It starts in Pirna, a 21 minutes train ride away (S1 trains run at least twice an hour, in mornings and afternoons also S2 trains, so four times an hour). From there to Bad Schandau it's roughly another 20-25 minutes with the same S1 trains (no need to change). See these websites:
for public transportation:
www.bahn.de
www.vvo-online.de
for the National Park:
www.nationalpark-saechsische-schweiz.de
For Pirna:
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/4166c/6ed7/
For Bad Schandau:
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/4166c/12ca7/
Kurort Rathen:
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/4166c/ab24/
More about Dresden:
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/4166c/1091e/
and about the northeastern districts of Dresden along the Elbe river from Dresden-Loschwitz to Pillnitz Palace and gardens:
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/4166c/6f2e/
for public transportation:
www.bahn.de
www.vvo-online.de
for the National Park:
www.nationalpark-saechsische-schweiz.de
For Pirna:
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/4166c/6ed7/
For Bad Schandau:
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/4166c/12ca7/
Kurort Rathen:
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/4166c/ab24/
More about Dresden:
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/4166c/1091e/
and about the northeastern districts of Dresden along the Elbe river from Dresden-Loschwitz to Pillnitz Palace and gardens:
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/4166c/6f2e/
Jan 19th, 2014, 12:16 AM
#15
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you Ingo! I shall need some time to digest all this, but it confirms my original thoughts about staying in Dresden (as opposed to day trip from Berlin). Perhaps day 1 in Dresden and day 2 hiking in the NP and/or exploring the Elbe valley.
Jan 20th, 2014, 07:43 PM
#16
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 774
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MRM, have you investigated the German Rail Pass for your holiday? My DH is from Cologne, and we have had many trips over the last 50 years back to Germany, lots of them using the rail pass, bought in Australia on the net. You can use one or more days of this ticket for a combination train and KD Line cruise. eg Cologne to Koblenz by train, then KD ferry to Cochem, and back to Cologne by train, or train to Bingen and ferry back to Koblenz.The ferry goes from Cologne to Mainz, I think. German railway stations have "left luggage" cupboards, so it is possible to travel light if you return to your starting point. Happy planning!
Jan 23rd, 2014, 03:30 PM
#17
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Carrabella, thank you. I had read about the Pass but not investigated. Thank you for your prompting esp as it includes the KD cruise which I'd not realised.
Unfortunately the "left luggage" won't help with the major problem which is getting from Bingen station to the cruise and having the luggage with us on KD from Bingen to Boppard!
That doesn't preclude the usefulness of the Pass though so I shall certainly buy those online before we leave.
Thanks again!
Unfortunately the "left luggage" won't help with the major problem which is getting from Bingen station to the cruise and having the luggage with us on KD from Bingen to Boppard!
That doesn't preclude the usefulness of the Pass though so I shall certainly buy those online before we leave.
Thanks again!
Thread
Original Poster
Forum
Replies
Last Post
nikita3
Europe
8
Dec 21st, 2006 06:52 PM
