Sherry

Hello,<BR><BR>My new husband and I are spending our 1st Xmas together taking a 12-day trip to the U.K. We hope to do a &quot;best of&quot; tour of London, the English countryside, Dublin/Ireland, and a bit of Scotland.<BR><BR>We definitely want to be in London for Xmas Eve, but it seems most things there are closed the 24th through 26th, so we better get our London sightseeing in earlier. So, this is what we were thinking, and I wanted to get your opinions: (Oh, by the way, we are 27 years old, with lots of energy, and we really don't mind learning to drive on the left or packing our days tight-- we want to see as much as possible! Also, we are Californians, so long drives don't bother us at all. Suggestions of things to see would be great!)<BR><BR>12/20 -- Arrive Heathrow, perhaps stay in Bath or the Cotswolds??? (Any other suggestions?)<BR>12/21 -- Similar... countryside, west or south?<BR>12/22-- Arrive early into London. Sightseeing.<BR>12/23-- London sightseeing.<BR>12/24-- London Xmas sights, shopping, and midnight mass.<BR>12/25-- We were thinking of spending Xmas day on the road since it will just be the 2 of us and nothing is open anyway. Figured we drive through the central part of England up to North Wales. Spend the night in North Wales, and take the Holyhead ferry the next day to Ireland, or if possible, take the ferry to Ireland that night and spend the night in Ireland.-- Comments on this??? <BR>12/26-- Dublin/Ireland<BR>12/27-- Ireland<BR>12/28-- Ireland<BR>12/29-- Take ferry to Scotland. Sightseeing in Scotland. Suggestions of must-sees?<BR>12/30-- Scotland<BR>12/31-- Drive back to London all day. Perhaps catch a dinner cruise or something for NY's Eve? Ideas?<BR>1/1-- Flight leaves in the afternoon.<BR><BR>Thanks in advance for any comments!!!!

Tom

I would consider cutting down the driving a bit. To make time from point A to point B, you take the motorway, and guess what? It feels just like you never left CA. Also the days will be pretty short that far north (check sunrise/set times on a weather site); you don't want to use all your daylight on the road. Finding your destination in the dark can be stressfull.<BR><BR>A good road atlas (the spiral-bound book type) is a huge help when driving; pick one up at the airport bookstore when you arrive. When you come to a roundabout, it really helps if the navigator can say &quot;take the 4th road&quot;; smaller scale maps will omit a few of the local roads and lead to confusion.<BR><BR>I would start with London. You don't want a car there; the underground is much more convenient. You can pick up the car when you head out. I think of London as more enjoyable than the countryside in winter; definitely allow time for a few shows; there are usually dozens running at any given time. You might use one day for a bus tour that starts from London (will provide some informed commentary on what you are seeing). <BR><BR>The scenic mountains and lakes that charm the locals may not be such a big deal to you (they feel more like the foothills of CA). On the other hand, the villages and pubs will feel very different. On our last UK road trip, we really enjoyed staying in village B&amp;Bs, usually a couple of days in each (just found them as we went). Some of the countryside tourist locations (manor houses, castles and such) may have restricted days/hours in winter (or even be closed entirely).<BR><BR>Your biggest obstacle is daylight; because of that, I would suggest biasing your time toward London, Edinborough and Dublin where there will be more going on in the evening. <BR><BR>Good luck, and have fun

Sheila

Alternatively, skip Scotland. The time you've left is simply too short. Concentrate on the other bits and don't spread yourself so thin.<BR><BR>Come back and see us in the summer

Geoff Hamer

Driving a long way on Christmas Day is not a good idea. Nearly everything - restaurants, caf&eacute;s, shops, garages - is shut in the UK.

Janie

Dear Sherry.<BR>Here are some restaurants open on Christmas Day<BR>http://excursia.com/destinations/UK/EN/london/stories/20001215/din_openchristmas.shtml<BR>You will probably have to pre-book. I wouldn't drive anywhere on Xmas Day because everything is shut. Would rather organise dinner at one of these restaurants and then go back to my hotel.<BR>Another one is the Boat Cruise on Xmas Day - <BR>www.citycruises.com/xmas.htm#lunch<BR>There IS something to do on Christmas Day and I would highly recommend using these people for any of their walks. check at the bottom of the page for Xmas day. Well worth it I would say.<BR>http://london.walks.com/special_walks.html<BR>I think you are crazy to move out of London on your first day - stay for the 6 days. There is sooo much to do and see in London and you are better off doing a day tour out of London if you want to get out ie Cantebury, Bath, Dover Castle, Cotswolds...you can catch the train or bus and even stay over a night if you wish to.<BR>I would then choose either Ireland or Scotland. You are really putting in too much - there is so much to see in one place letalone all those you want to go to. You are better off staying and seeing it in front of you. If you drive you will miss alot becuase you feel you have to get to the next place. Do London (a couple of day tours out of London) then train or fly to Scotland. Visit Glasgow for a night and drive up to the highlands and across to Edinburgh for a night or two.<BR>

Jen

I have to agree with the others who said that there is just too much driving in your itinerary. <BR><BR>Even though you don't mind &quot;packing our days . . see as much as possible,&quot; unless what you want to see as much as possible of is the inside of your car, you would be better-off spending a few days in London and then choosing ONE of the other locales -- just Ireland, Scotland, OR the English countryside. There is more than enough to see and do in any ONE of those for two weeks. It's not a question of whether long drives would bother you, it's a matter of whether they're the best use of your time. Also, I think that like many new visitors, you are underestimating the time it takes to get from one place to another.

Ann

Are you taking the ferry from Belfast to Scotland? (Stranraer or Troon). I'm not even sure that there is a ferry from the Republic to Scotland. But someone else may be able to help you out there.<BR><BR>Two things to consider with ferries in the winter--on occasion, ferry trips will be cancelled because of rough weather. It doesn't happen all of the time, but it's also not a rare occurence.<BR><BR>You can fly very cheaply between the UK and Ireland, and this would probably be your best bet.<BR><BR>As far as your time spent driving, I don't see a problem with, if you like to drive. But yes, there won't be many (if any) petrol stations open on Christmas Day. I recently drove from Scotland (about 40 miles west of Glasgow) to Liverpool, and that took about 5 hours. Tack on however many more hours to London, and it's a long day of hard driving.<BR><BR>I also agree that you should just stay in London on your first few nights. That way, you avoid renting a car, and the hassle of trying to park in London.<BR><BR>I would also divide my time in half between London and either Dublin or Edinburgh. That way, you can take day trips out of the cities into the countryside if you'd like, and you won't spend all of your time on ferries or planes.

aaa

What is Xmas? Is that Christmas?

janis

Sorry, but your itinerary simply isn't reasonable - especially in December. Plan on darkness before 4PM - earlier the farther north you go. <BR><BR>Going west to Bath/Cotswolds / east to London / west to Wales / ferry from Angelsey for a glimpse of Ireland / getting to Belfast to catch a ferry to the far SW of Scotland / south to London -- all in twelve days over Christmas.<BR><BR>The short days and probable weather delays make this pretty impossible.<BR><BR>To give you some perspective (I too am a Californian but lived in the UK for 5 years and know both intimately) - except on the motorways, from which you cannot see anything, you will be lucky to average 40 mph. Add in the closures of many things from Dec 24 - 26, etc -- you will simply not see much on this itinerary.<BR><BR>I would decide on TWO places: London and the Cotswolds/Bath; London and Scotland (fly to Edinburgh and pick up a car there); London and Dublin (again - fly, don't take a car on a ferry - pick up a rental car in Dublin)

toppy

ttt

John H

Hi, Sherry,<BR><BR>Like the others, I think you are trying to do too much. It will be dark around 3-4pm, the roads may be wet/slick, you definitely don't want a car in London, ... I think you might consider doing:<BR><BR>1) a London and England trip (stay in London initially, then take the subway to Heathrow, rent a car and begin your rural England travels. Ideas: maybe some combination of Bath, the Cotsolds, Stratford, Oxford, Cambridge, possibly York); OR,<BR><BR>2) do a &quot;major cities&quot; tour and fly between some combination of London, Dublin, Edinburgh and concentrate on urban experiences without needing a rental car. There are likely to be good/great fares available on some of the new European airlines: Ryanair, Easy Jet, Baby BMI, ...<BR><BR>Have a great trip.<BR><BR>John H

Sherry

Thanks for your input, everyone!<BR><BR>We have taken your suggestions to heart, in most cases, and changed our itinerary accordingly. We will stay in England between 12/20-12/26. We will be staying at the Cranley in London between 12/22-12/26. We have not made reservations for the 20th and 21st, because we are still considering a countryside stay, perhaps in Bath (any suggestions?), or we may just extend our London stay. We WILL take in at least one show (made reservations for My Fair Lady), and are looking into the Christmas dinner suggestions given.<BR><BR>We will not travel on Xmas day (and, yes, that is an abbreviation for Christmas that is widely used here in the US, as may or may not have been evident by the 12/25 date). We have booked a flight to Glasgow on 12/26. We will tour Scotland by car for the rest of our time, ending in Edinburgh for Hogmany, and staying at the Roxburgh on 12/30 and 12/31. We will then fly from Edinburgh to Heathrow and out. Any suggestions for places to stay in various parts of Scotland are welcome. We'll also check out the hotels section here. <BR><BR>We've decided to save Ireland for another time! No use in rushing it all in if we won't see anything, as you all said.<BR><BR>Any suggestions on nice places to stay in the English or Scottish countryside are welcome.<BR><BR>Thank you all so much for your help and input!!!

Lanny

Try The Francis in Bath. They are on the internet and I highly recommend them. They are on Queen's Square, close to positively everything in the city centre where you will want to be, and what I love most on a cold, dreary day in England is they bath floors and towel racks are heated, an almost unbelievable luxury in an otherwise reasonably priced hotel in England.<BR><BR>Lanny