LeeP

I am trying to plan a three- week trip to Australia and New Zealand in late Feb-March 2008. We are two couples in our mid-60's, and while I do understand that 3 weeks is not long enough, it's all we feel we can spend, and we also realize that this will be our only trip Downunder, so we want to see and do as much as possible. This forum has been a great help to me in planning other journeys - specifically to Ireland and Scotland; I have learned more from you folks than from all the travel books combined! So I'm counting on you to help me out and sort through all my confusion.
We would really like to do at least the New Zealand portion of the trip independently. We have driven in Ireland and Scotland so driving on the left is not a problem We understand that driving in New Zealand may be a lot like Ireland, where roads are narrow and it takes a long time to get where you are going. We love driving country roads and exploring and prefer to stay in small inns and guesthouses rather than large hotels. I think part of the fun of planning a trip is choosing where to stay - this is why I do not want to go with a tour company. However I am having a difficult time figuring out the scheduling for in-country flights, both in NZ and Australia. I have not used a travel agent in years, but may have to find one this time!
Anyway, after saying all that, here is my tentative itinerary -- please tell me if this is doable:
Fly from LAX into Auckland - spend first night in Auckland; rent a car.
Drive to Waitomo, tour caves, go on to Rotorua for 2 nights -see thermal areas and go to a Maori Hangi.
Turn in car, fly to Christchurch-spend 2 nights, tour gardens and other sights in CC.
Take the Tranzalpine train to Greymouth - rent another car there.
After short detour north to see Pancake rocks, drive down the coast to glaciers - spend one night in Franz Josef.
Drive on to Queenstown, spend 3 nights - take day trip to Milford Sound, also Earnslaw/walter Peak and maybe a Shotover jet boat ride.
This totals nine days in NZ.
On day 10 we would fly from QT to Melbourne. I am less specific on the
Australia part of the trip, and feel we may have to book a tour to manage it - trying to check on both escorted and independent packages.
Basically, my plan for Australia is :
Melbourne - 3 nights
Alice Springs - 1 night
Ayers Rock - 1 night
Cairns - 3 nights
Sydney - 3 nights
Would possibly like to add Adelaide - 2 nights-(after Melbourne.)
This follows a pattern that I see in many tour books - but when I look at the flights, we would spend whole days getting from place to place - lots of time in airports! Is it possible to do all this or should I just give up and book a tour?
Thanks so much for helping me figure this out!!
Lee

LizzyF

www.qantas.com.au, www.virginblue.com.au, www.jetatar.com for Australia or the NZ airline Air New Zealand, Freedom Air - these should give you some idea of flights around each country. I think there is an offshoot of Air NZ as well but I am not sure what it is.
Because NZ is a small country you will be fine getting around there but what you have planned in Australia is another matter. I would just stick to perhaps 2 places. See if you can fly direct to Cairns and spend more time there than you have allocated because there is a lot to see and you will be pleased to have the extra time. If you cannot go direct to Cairns then make that either Sydney or Brisbane and fly to Cairns from either of those places. Keep plenty of time for Sydney and you won't need a car there either. There are many day trips that you can do from there by train so adding more time will make those trips possible.
If you check the websites of airlines you will get a better idea of how long it takes to fly distances in Australia then there is the time spent getting to and from airports, not to mention the time sitting in them. Delete Melbourne, Ayres Rock and Alice Springs and if you really want another place then add Melbourne back into the equasion. However remember that there is plenty to see between places like Sydney and Cairns.
I suggest doing away with the Centre because it is time consuming to get there, costly when you are there and for the very short time you are there you will not get to see the other attractions that are around which make up the "worth" of going there. It is not like the Grand Canyon where even if you see it just for a short time it is an amazing WOW! factor, it is a rock which is fairly big, not the biggest in Australia but big - and that is really that about it.

Melissa5

LeeP, we love independent travel around the world. My advice is to choose one country, either New Zealand or Australia. I promise this relieves some of the confusion, and often tends to save some money on transportation costs.

While you may feel you don't want to "miss" either New Zealand or Australia, this is a common temptation we all share...even with 3 weeks in New Zealand and 3 weeks in Australia, you would still "miss" most of both countries!

I've been to New Zealand twice. The first was a whirlwind trip to both the North and South Islands, and I can barely remember where we went. Did we go to Christchurch? Can't remember. It's pretty much a lovely and tiring blur.

But every day of our second trip to New Zealand is playing in living color in my memory, because we slowed down and really enjoyed some very special places. We had only 2 weeks, and we also considered both Australia and New Zealand. We decided to focus our 2 weeks on the southern half of the south island of New Zealand.

Our trip was awesome! It was in February 2007 for our 25th anniversary.

Loved Ireland too, by the way. I would say that driving in Ireland is a bit similar to driving in New Zealand, with one important difference...the south island of New Zealand is bigger, in terms of driving distance, than Ireland. Don't underestimate your driving times.

We flew from LAX to Auckland, nonstop on Air New Zealand. It was a great flight. Then we got a connecting flight to Dunedin. We skipped the North Island on this trip due to time limitations.

We have already decided we need a third trip to New Zealand one day! On our third trip we will either fly LAX to Auckland and do the North Island only; or else we will fly LAX to Auckland and get a connecting flight to Queenstown, as we truly love the southern half of the south island.

I'm sure you will enjoy a fantastic trip whatever you decide!

mlgb

Your itinerary for NZ does look rushed around the glaciers, you can certainly do it but I think another overnight at the glaciers would be a good idea. It takes the better partof the day to drive to Quenstown.

I would alternatively suggest skipping the west coast, instead drive from Christchurch down the east side of the Southern Alps. Beautiful scenery around Lake Tekapo, overnight in that area or at Mt. Cook. You can see glaciers at Mt. Cook National Park (Tasman Valley glacier). Then spend the rest of the time around Queenstown, with a day trip to Milford Sound.

Julia_E

After traveling the world by cruise ship, car, train, mountain bike, and/or I really encourage you to consider a tour, especially if it is going to be your only trip to Australia and New Zealand. It really causes a lot of stress to travel completely independently and it is much less efficient than traveling with a small, luxury tour group. Australia and New Zealand require several trips because there is just too much to see in a few weeks. On these luxury tours, you don't have to worry about car rentals, finding a decent hotel, visiting all of the best sights and attractions because you walk past the crowds and the queues. Someone picks up your luggage from your door in the morning and drops it to your hotel door in the evenings. Many of your meals at the best restaurants are included. You have some time that has tour, but you also have a lot of time at leisure to do as much or as little as you like - to spend time shopping, visiting museums or galleries or simply sipping coffee.

If you want to see as much of Australia and New Zealand, I really strongly urge you to consider a luxury tour, such as Abercrombie and Kent or Travcoa. You will worry less about the details and see (and enjoy your trip) so much more.

Best Regards,
Julia

Melissa5

To each his/her own. Julia sees the value of tours but when we are travelling, we always feel sorry for people we see on tours!

Example: Of all the things we saw in New Zealand, the most disappointing was the Moeraki Boulders on the east coast of the south island. A bus-load of tourists on a package tour were dumped off there, and their kids were climbing all over the boulders, despite the sign asking people NOT to climb on the boulders. My husband and I didn't see the point of this spot, especially as the tour group actually spoiled the peaceful atmosphere. In a tour group you will BE the crowd that we are trying to avoid!

In our experience, New Zealand doesn't have any lines to avoid. I planned our trip independently and never waited in any lines. We travelled MORE efficiently than the tour groups, from what I could see. A tour group takes time just to load and unload the bus...that is YOUR time they are wasting. A tour group must stop only in places where a bus can go...eat only in places where a crowd can eat. You have to wait in line for the bathroom because your tour group CAUSES lines at the toilet. (When your bus leaves, we independent travellers in New Zealand didn't experience any lines.)

On your own you can find lovely little cafes and small restaurants with nice views that are too intimate to accomodate a tour group.

In a tour group you are stuck staying in hotels which are large enough to accomodate a tour group. As independent travellers, we prefer lovely little boutique hotels or guest houses, which again are too small to accomodate your tour group.

People travelling on package tours often don't research the place where they are going. Frequently they know little about the place they are visiting. When they get home and I question them they often can barely tell me where they have gone. I met 2 nice folks from New Jersey who had broken away from their package tour for an afternoon in Rome, Italy. They were completely lost and had no map and no idea how to find what they wished to do. Meanwhile, we had researched our trip and knew exactly how to spend our time...in the most efficient manner.

We don't wait in lines on our independent vacations. Research can show the independent traveller how to avoid lines, even in busy cities like Rome, Italy.

As an independent traveller, I occasionally hire a private local guide for a few hours for a wonderful private tour. Since it is only our family and the guide, we can ask all the questions we want and a half-day tour can be tailor-made just for us. There are many good independent guides who will do this for a reasonable fee. We find we don't need a tour every day, but sometimes a half-day guided tour is good for certain locations, once in a while.

For some people, a package tour may be their idea of a perfect vacation. For us, we are hooked on independent travel. We pass many vacationers on package tours, and I always notice they usually aren't smiling and just don't look like they are having as much fun as we are...they also don't have the freedom that we have.

Well we have gotten a little off the subject here. However you plan your trip, have a wonderful time!

Bokhara

Julia, as your email address appears to indicate you have an involvement in the travel industry; may I ask what size group you mean when you refer to "small, luxury tours" ?

Whilst I can see the value for some travellers in tour groups; LeeP has indicated their preference for and experience in, a more independent way for them. Personally, I would encourage them to follow that course in NZ and Australia, too. Both countries are very easy to drive in and, in my experience, the only queues they're likely to see are those of large tour groups. Feb/March isn't "high season" in Australia or NZ.

LeeP: driving in NZ is a lot like Ireland - lots of bendy, narrow roads, subject to frost/snow etc in the higher parts in Winter (you'll be there late Summer/early Autumn so won't have any of those issues.) It's a delightful place and the people are charming.

Just a tip on your car: Make sure you get something with enough "grunt" to get you up the hills & around other vehicles quickly when you need it.

mlgb

Absolutely do New Zealand independently, for all of the reasons you listed. For bed and breakfast accomodatons, you can use friars.co.nz if you want luxury, or bnb.co.nz if you want to consider a wider price range. With the ability to book on the interet and common language (with the exception of the pronunciation of certain vowels), there is no problem arranging accomodations and finding one's way around. I see no reason to hire a tour company unless you do not want to drive on the left. The roads in New Zealand tend to be windy, but most of the main touring roads are wide enough for two vehicles.

LeeP

Thank you , all of you, so much. I will discuss all of your suggestions with the others in our group and hopefully we can narrow our choices down so that we won't feel so rushed. Thanks for the encouragement on travelling independently, especially in NZ.
I am even considering adding a few days in New Zealand and driving to Wellington and taking the ferry rather than flying to the South Island. If we decide not to go to Ayers Rock, and go just to Cairns and Sydney and maybe Melbourne, I could then add those days to NZ.
Thanks for the website suggestions. When I get a little further along with our itinerary, I will post some questions about accommodations. First we need to get definite dates and book our airline tickets for the overseas flights.
My husband is very concerned about the long flights - I have been considering Air New Zealand's Premier Economy ( I think that is what it is called) where you get more leg room and the seats recline more. We can not afford business class, and unfortunately we have frequent flyer miles on airlines that do not go to the South Pacific. Have any of you tried this middle price range seat with Air NZ, and is it a good deal?
Also does it help to book all the flight with one airline, like Qantas, our can I do the Air NZ for the long flights and Qantas within Australia, and still come out o.k. financially?
As you can see , I have lots of questions!
Thanks again for all your help!!!
Lee P.

dotty

Hi, LeeP
I was about to suggest you spent a couple of nights / days in Wellington, and your last posting says you are thinking of that! There is a lot to see and do in Wellington.
The ferry trip is around 3 hours, and is an interesting way to travel. We go across to the South Island every year, and always use the ferry. There are two ferry companies now; we use the blue ferry company as we have found them to be friendly.
I think your plan to drive yourself is great - there is so much to see that you could miss when in a bus. And you can't ask the bus driver to stop the bus because you have seen a great photo opportunity, or want to explore a little track!
I love the wildness of the West Coast, and would suggest you don't cut that out of your trip. If you have the time try to visit Hokitika Gorge for the beautiful turquoise color of the water, as well as the interesting scenery around. I would agree with mlgb that a second night in Franz or that vicinity would be a good idea, apart from anything just to give yourself a rest before tackling the long drive to Queenstown. Mind you, there is probably more than one driver in your group so you may be okay.
Have fun planning your trip, and enjoy our lovely country.