zainib

I'm planning a family trip for spring break next year and considering a number of options revolving around Vietnam and maybe Laos. We've got 12, maybe 13 days plus a travel day at either end. Originally, I thought of doing the usual Hanoi to Hue to Saigon circuit. But, I am wondering what people think about an itinerary that skips Hue and Saigon in favor of Luang Prabang. LP has been on my list for awhile and today, after watching an episode of Ruth Reichel's food travel show about a cooking school there, I really want to go! Here's what I'm thinking:

Day 0 Fly to Hanoi
Days 1-8 Hanoi, day trip to Hoa Lu, trip to Lao Cai & Sa Pa, overnight in Halong Bay
Day 8 Late PM flight to Luang Prabang
Days 9-12 Luang Prabang
Day 13 Fly to Bangkok in AM and connect to PM flight home

It will be my wife and me with our 13 year old son. Two years ago we took him and his then 16 year old sister on a great trip to Thailand (including a memorable two-day "mahout training course" at the Thai Elephant Conservation Center) and Siem Reap with much planning based on the postings on this forum for which I belatedly thank all of you And, by the way, is there some Gpanda-imposed trip deadline I've run afoul of? Is two years too long?

silverwool

That seems fine. Treat Luang Prabang as a taste of Laos. There is a lot more to see than just one city. After Hanoi you'll find it very quiet. Personally I found North Vietnam more interesting than Saigon but others may differ.

IndochinaVoyages

Good pick Zainib, If your pocket can handle a flt to Danang, let's take 2 days for HoiAn. Cut 1 day in Vietnam part and another 1 day from Luang Prabang part.

Craig

We did the Hanoi, Halong Bay and Sapa over 11 days last April which was just right. The logistics of getting to and from Sapa on the overnight train require that you spend at least two days there (two nights on the train plus an overnight in Sapa). (We had four days, three nights in Sapa.) An overnight at Halong Bay will also take up almost a full two days. If you do a day trip to Hoa Lu, you will have just three days for Hanoi where there is a LOT to do and see. Click on my name to access my trip report.

As for LP, you have 4 full days and although some on this board may disagree, you could cut that back to 3 and do just fine. If you have a late PM flight out of Bangkok you can take the 3:40 PM flight out of LP which buys you an extra 1/2 day.

thursdaysd

Totally disagree with IndochinaVoyages, your plan looks good to me. Unless you are really into getting clothes made, the best reason to go to Hoi An is to visit My Son, and its' not worth messing up an otherwise good itinerary.

I love both Hanoi and LP, although LP may be a bit quiet for your son. I think there's now a place nearby with elephants, though.

Kathie

I also think your plan is good. The idea of adding another destination is a bad idea, IMO. In my experience, travel agents always want to fit in more.

Do make sure you get hotel reservations in Luang Prabang well in advance.

zainib

Thanks for all your advice. I've been looking at one of the itineraries on the Tonkin Travel site for some guidance on the Hanoi portion. Here's what I've come up with so far.

Day 1: Arrive in Hanoi from Los Angeles at 10:35 am; take it easy for rest of day
Day 2: Hanoi city sights
Day 3: Day trip to Hoa Lu; night train from Hanoi to Lao Cai
Day 4: To Sa Pa
Day 5: Sa Pa
Day 6: Sa Pa; night train back to Hanoi
Day 7: Arrive Hanoi early am; transfer to Halong Bay; cruise bay on junk; overnight on junk
Day 8: Continue cruise; back to Hanoi to catch 6:25 pm flight to Luang Prabang
Days 9-12 Luang Prabang
Day 13: Fly at 12:10 pm to Bangkok; Arrive in Bangkok at 2:15 pm to connect to flight back to LA at 5:05 pm

Any further thoughts on this itinerary?

I've been having a little trouble researching flights but by searching two separate one-way flights at Kayak's UK site, I found a Vietnam Air flight Hanoi to LP for 107 pounds ($171) and a Bangkok Air flight from LP to Bangkok for 132 pounds ($211). These seem expensive but perhaps that's just the going rate?

zainib

Any further thoughts on my itinerary, especially the first 8 days? Too ambitious?

Craig

You are not giving Hanoi enough time. As I said earlier, there is lots to do there. I don't know much about Hoa Lu but my gut is to cut it and spend the extra day in Hanoi instead - even then you will barely scratch the surface. I would recommend cutting a day in LP as well but after all of the running around you are doing at the beginning of your trip, you will appreciate the 4 days there to unwind.

Kathie

I agree with Craig that you should cut Hoa Lu and spend it in Hanoi. I wouldn't cut any time from LP. But this is a very busy schedule and you won't get much of a feel for Hanoi. I'd even decide between Sapa and Halong Bay.

I think you are cutting it close on your return flight. Yes, it will be fine if everything is on time. But when I travel in SE Asia I try to leave some slack to allow for the inevitable unexpected events.

zainib

Thanks for the input. Back to the drawing board...

Kathie (and anyone else who cares to chime in): How would you come down on the Sapa vs Halong question?

(And, yes, I know that ideally we shouldn't be making that close a connection for the return. Maybe with a less ambitious schedule, I'll be able to do something about that.)

crellston

Sapa is great and very scenic but does get very busy at weekends because of the Sunday market when it does turn into a bit of a human zoo. Nevertheless, the valley is spectacular and a great place to spend a day hiking. Given the amount of time you have the Mai Chau valley may be worth a look. It it is much closer to Hanoi (i.e. 4 hours drive)but beautiful scenery and far fewer tourists.

Halong bay, IMHO is a little overated and, personally, I would miss this out and spend more time in Hanoi where there is so much to see.
A few photos of Mai Chau and Sapa can be found on our blog http://www.travelpod.com/travel-blog...ai/3/tpod.html

zainib

Any other opinions on Sapa vs. Halong?


crellston: nice photos. Mai Chau is an overnight trip, not a day trip, right?

Craig

Sapa = people (hilltribes)
Halong = scenery

Photos of both:
http://craigandjeane.smugmug.com/Tra...44525214_kDK5e

CanCan

I have been to Luang Prabang twice, and my husband just took his 7th grade class up there for a week long study trip. I have been to Chiang Mai many times and I just returned from my 2nd trip to Hanoi (I'm in HCMC right now!)

Here are my thoughts:
I'm guessing that the highlight of your Thailand experience was Chiang Mai. I love the elephant camp at Mae Sa and have taken my preschoolers there two times. Luang Prabang isn't as big as Chiang Mai, but you can have a more Chiang Mai-type experience there. You can hike and swim around beautiful water falls, do an elephant trek, see temples, even walk a bit outside the city to see the grave of Henri Mouhout, the guy who "discovered" Ankor Wat. Also Luang Prabang has some fantastic restaurants, and it is a walking town. You can also rent bikes.
My husbands students did some project where they did a village home stay and helped build huts.
Re: Hanoi: My kids are 2 and 5 and we ran out of stuff to do in Hanoi after 4 days. We stayed in the Old Quarter and were able to walk to some sights, but also found ourselves taking lengthy taxi rides multiple times a day.
We have lived in Southeast Asia since they were born and there are only so many temples they can bear to see. We loved the Ethnic Museum: (blog post: http://mommosttraveled.com/hanoi-day-2/ ) and of course the Water Puppets.
I didn't take them to war-related museums but I am interested myself to go. Hanoi is a big city, not as big as Bangkok but still takes some planning to get around.
If you will be traveling during spring break, the week of April 11-17 is Lao New Year, and Luang Prabang is the center of all the action, complete with a dragon parade. I went during 2005 and it was doable, not overly insane!

Have a great trip! And I disagree about the comments about Hoi An, I think Hoi An is Vietnam's Luang Prabang!

crellston

zainib - I suppose you could do mai Chau in one day but it would be a VERY long day. much better to stay at least one night.

zainib

Revised plan:

Day 1: Arrive in Hanoi from Los Angeles at 10:35 am; do some leisurely jet-lagged exploring
Day 2: Hanoi
Day 3: Hanoi
Day 4: Hanoi; night train to Sapa
Day 5: Sapa
Day 6: Sapa
Day 7: Sapa; night train back to Hanoi
Day 8: Arrive Hanoi early am; transfer to Halong Bay; cruise bay on junk; overnight on junk
Day 9: Continue cruise; back to Hanoi to catch 6:25 pm flight to Luang Prabang
Days 10-13: Luang Prabang
Day 13: LP during the day; early evening flight to Hanoi
Day 14: Mid-day flight back to LA

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. We've decided to add another day of vacation by coming back one day later (always prefer to have an extra recovery day before going back to school and work but not this time). And, although I'm still going to try for both Sapa and Halong Bay, I've managed to squeeze in some extra Hanoi time. We're really looking forward to Luang Prabang, which I'm sure will just whet our appetites for more of Laos in the future. Rather than risk a missed connection, we're going back to Hanoi (rather than Bangkok)the night before our flight home to LA.

Any further thoughts welcome, of course.

zainib

A Sapa question. With some adjusting of our itinerary, I think we can be in the area for the Saturday Can Cau market. But, in order to make the Bac Ha Sunday market, we'd have to cut a day somewhere else, probably from Luang Prabang. Are either or both of these "must-sees?"

IndochinaVoyages

Cut a day in LP is okie as I see that you still have almost 3 full days in LP. Can Cau is a must see than Bac Ha Market but why not take the good chance to see both.

Craig

I disagree. You do not need to see both, unless you are totally into markets. We enjoyed Can Cau - it was colorful and did not take a whole lot of time. If you decide to stick around for another day, there's nothing to do in the area and from what I've heard Bac Ha is much more touristy, if that matters to you.

If you do Sapa and Halong Bay consecutively, then plan on renting a room at Lao Cai for a few hours so that you can take showers and freshen up. I highly recommend this as we did it and it made a huge difference in the comfort of our trip and would certainly make a difference for you as you continue on. If you have a guide, he can arrange it but several of the restaurants in town are affiliated with hotels that do this.