LarryRGV

Can anyone suggest how I can fly from Kyoto to Beijing, or Shanghai, if that gives me more flexibility in pricing or scheduling. In doing some research it appears that I would have to fly out of Osaka, probably on JAL. If so, how do I get there? Train? And how much of a hassle is that. Or would I be better served by going back to Tokyo the night before and spend the night close to Narita at Hilton or other place. Also is it any more economical to buy airline tickets when I am there. Pricing seems quite steep from Tokyo-Bejing. Thanks.

hawaiiantraveler

you can get to KIX from Kyoto by bus or train. They have a limosine bus service from several Kyoto hotels and the train station to KIX. There is also train service from Kyoto to KIX. Look at this site under access information

http://www.kansai-airport.or.jp/en/index.asp

Aloha!

KimJapan

There are many discount travel agents, but only a few have English. If you can read Japanese www.tour.ne.jp is a great source of cheap tickets. I've not seen any agent listed there that deals in English though. English language agencies sometimes have good deals, but be aware that the advertised prices are often "sold out" and they will offer you a higher price. Most also only deal in cash with payment made to their bank account (common practice in Japan), but a few deal with credit cards. In some cases, you have to show up in person with your card. In almost all cases, you need to pick up your ticket at the group counter at the airport on the day of departure, unless you are lucky enough to get an e-ticket. No. 1 Travel, Accross Travel, HIS Travel, IACE Travel...are some that deal in English with offices in Osaka. A google search will get you contact information.

mrwunrfl

How are you getting to Kyoto in the first place? If you don't have a JR Pass then going back to Narita by ground is going to cost about 16000 yen.

mrwunrfl

You could check ITM, Osaka Itami airport. There may be connections via Seoul.

The Chubu airport in Nagoya (NGO) is very convenient to Kyoto, much more so than Tokyo.

LarryRGV

I like Hawaiiantraveler's suggestion of a Limo to the airport from Kyoto if we fly to China from Osaka. for a couple of old farts like my wife and I the less hassle, the better. How much time in Limo would that take? Mrwunrfl your idea about NGO also sounds good but don't most int.flights go out of Osaka instead? Or would NGO be more accessible and also have flights? I'm tempted to just stay in Tokyo an extra day rather than spending one night out just to experience the Bullet train and see Kyoto VERY briefly. Thanks everyone.

mrwunrfl

NGO would be less convenient than KIX/ITM from Kyoto but much more convenient than Tokyo NRT/HND. And maybe there is a fare difference that would be worth the inconvenience (that being that you would ride the shinkansen to Nagoya and change to a non-JR train to the airport).

Yes, stay in Tokyo rather than going to Kyoto for a night. If you want to ride the shinkansen then you could take the train to Nagoya, go to a baseball game, and return that night (I did this in reverse- from Nagoya to Tokyo Dome and back - after a full day of sightseeing in the rain).

I think that is may be possible to find flights departing Tokyo Haneda that would connect to PEK or PVG. I know there are HND to Seoul flights.

mrwunrfl

I should say HND-ICN flights, which you would want, and not HND-Gimpo.

LarryRGV

Mrwunrfl, The advice looks good But the guide books seem to promote Kyoto pretty much. Don't you think if I have time I should spend one or two nites there? I actually have about 4 nites in Tokyo and could spend either one or two in Kyoto without really cutting into my China schedule. I went on the site Hawaiian listed and there are quite a number of flights from KIX to Beijing or Shanghai. Spending 2 nites in Kyoto means that I spend 4 nites in Tokyo and 4 in Hong Kong rather than 5 in each. What do you think? Also, I am going to post another question but maybe you can answer it here as you seem very knowledgeable - If money is not a problem, would you suggest the Conrad or the Hilton in Tokyo? We like to be in the center of shopping and restaurants more than Temples, etc. I would love your or anybody else's opinion.

KimJapan

I've stayed at both the Conrad and the Hilton (in Shinjuku). The Conrad is newer, and is a very slick property. It is modern in design and very nice. Service was good but a bit cold. Restaurants in the hotel are priced high, even for Tokyo. Nevertheless, we enjoyed the food and service there. The Conrad is located in the midst of shopping and restaurants, so you are spoiled for choice really in both. The subway is right downstairs. The hotel overlooks Tokyo Bay and Hamarikyu Gardens....we had a lovely night view of these two places.

The Hilton is about a 10 minute walk from Shinjuku station, and is located amidst mostly office buildings. The hotel is older, but isn't too worn. Service is friendlier here than at the Conrad. They run a shuttle to Shinjuku station, but we always walked. There is subway downstairs as well. We only ate breakfast there, and it was good.

We paid money for the Hilton, and it was reasonable at around 25,000 yen per night for 2 adults and one small child, upgrade to executive floor with breakfast etc. was given for being Hilton Honors Gold.

We stayed at the Conrad on points, as their room rates are very high. We were upgraded from the lowest level room (which you get when you pay with points) to a room with a view of the bay and Hamarikyu and given free breakfast coupons.

For the price of the Conrad, if you are going after September 1, you can stay at the new Peninsula Tokyo (Value the Experience rate) which is fabulously located, and if it's anything close to its other family hotels, will be better than excellent. That would be my choice.

I would recommend including Kyoto in your itinerary as it is unique and there is much to see there. There are plenty of flights to China from KIX. You might try booking your flight as either a multi-stop ticket or as a through ticket to China with a stopover in Japan.

LarryRGV

Kim, thanks for the post. I will also be staying with points so the price difference is not important to me. The location and the quality of the hotel are. My wife has a few problems nowadays with walking too far so we like to be close to the action and would probably take taxis to most places tho she loves taking subways when we are in NY. Given those parameters, which would you suggest?

KimJapan

The Conrad would be my choice then. It is a very good use of points, and the location is better in terms of having things right there.

Do be aware though, that there are plenty of stairs to navigate in Japan if you use trains and subways. There are usually escalators for the up direction, but down is usually only stairs in many stations. There are elevators, but you usually need to call a person to use them. Shopping centers have escalators and elevators for both up and down. There are also often significant walks to enter and exit stations or to change lines. Be sure to allow sufficient time for this if walking needs to be done slowly.

LarryRGV

Thanks, Kim. what about the advice given me about going to Kyoto and flying to China from KIX. Would you agree with that? And where would you suggest staying in Kyoto if price is not the big concern.

KimJapan

Yes, I'd definitely fly from KIX to China if you were in Kyoto. No sense at all to go back to Narita for that. Plenty of flights from KIX. I'm seeing fares of ¥38,000 between KIX and Shanghai daily for the month of August (round trip and one-way price the same) and ¥32,000 for KIX - Beijing daily for the month of August.

From Kyoto to KIX you have the choice of limosine bus from many hotels, or Limited Express Haruka train from Kyoto station (there are other trains, but this one is fastest and nicest).

Kyoto hotels...the Granvia is right in the station, which makes coming and going easy. The Hyatt is new and gets good reviews. One that isn't often mentioned here but is highly regarded here in Japan is the Brighton. The Okura is very nice as well and there is a Weston too.

If you were interested in staying in a luxury ryokan there are several in Kyoto that are wonderful experiences...but they come with a very high price. Tawaraya is gorgeous and very highly regarded in all markets, as is Hiiragiya. Both are also welcoming to those who cannot speak Japanese.

LarryRGV

When I went online, especially to the kasai airport site that Hawaiian recommended, which was VERY helpful, the prices looked closer to the $900 to $1000 USD rates then what you are saying. Do I need to be in Japan to get rates like that? Air China, JAL, and ANA all looked convenient to either Shanghai or Beijing but not particularyly economical as the rate you are listing. I'm not sure what a Ryokan is. We like luxury and lots of space and don't like sharing. My impression of this type place is a more typical old style bamboo or paper walls, and not an American style hotel. Sorry to project an "ugly American" image but at 60++ it is hard to change habits. I won't even stay with my daughter when I go to NY to visit her. I need a big Marriott to feel comfortable. With that in mind, please give me your opinion.

travelgirl2

The train from Kyoto to Osaka airport was very easy, although you do have to schlep your luggage.

KimJapan

The fares I am quoting are from the agencies I mentioned earlier in this thread. They are booked from within Japan, but you could book by phone/fax/e-mail and just use a credit card if they take them or you would simply wire the money to their account (You would have to pay the fee).

A ryokan is traditional Japanese hotel. Luxury ryokan like the two I mentioned are all about the aesthetic, the food and the service. You check in and don't usually go out until the next day when you check out. www.japaneseguesthouses.com has good explanation and plenty of pictures. Ryokan can also be used in the name of places that offer simply a futon on the floor in a room...this is not the type of place that is expensive and it is not the type of place I would recommend for any sort of "experience." A stay in a luxury ryokan, if you can afford it, is very special. BUT, if you need a big Marriott to feel comfortable, then it probably is not for you.

LarryRGV

Thanks, Kim. Yeah, that's kind of what I figured for the Ryokan. But like I posted on another thread that the nice lady above has (Travelgirl), at 60++ its hard to acquire new habits and I need what I am used to. Think I will stay to the tried and true hotels. But with regard to the agents you listed previously you seemed to indicate that without a command of the language it would be hard to get those prices. Do you think I should just wait til I am in Japan to book my China trip? But if so, will I have a problem entering the country because it seems that the official want to know you have money and have a way out of the contry.

KimJapan

Accross, No. 1, IACE, HIT, HIS...they all have English. The website www.tour.ne.jp is what I use, but it's only Japanese...it compiles all the agencies' fares and packages in a neat, easy to sort format. But the individual agencies I listed all have English speaking staff and usually English language websites, but not online booking as they book consolidator fares, not published fares. Published fares between Japan and anywhere are high, but from the agents, they are reasonable.

KimJapan

http://www.no1-travel.com/kix/no1air/index.htm

http://www.across-travel.com/kansai/index.html

http://www.iace.co.jp/english/index.html

are three of the agencies I listed English websites. All three are reliable, well known and legit.