tod

I wonder if someone could please guide me in the right direction with a return flight Paris - Calgary next July/August..
I have been in contact with a very nice Travel Agent in Lacombe (our final destination), and she has suggested Air Transat which is a direct flight.
That's great but they do not have Business Class seating with seats that almost turn into a bed.
Another suggestion was KLM via Amsterdam. That seemed OK but a poster called Sueb08 has just vowed that she would never do that again!

I was truly hoping to find a daylight flight because then I would fly coach, but that does not seem possible.
What other options do I have?

rkkwan

If you are flying business class, in general you want to make the connection in Europe because you want the longest leg to be in international business class, and not fly a long "domestic first class" in North America.

From Europe, British Airways have non-stop LHR-YYC, Air Canada has non-stop FRA-YYC (also marketed as a Lufthansa codeshare).

Or you can also fly Air France CDG-YVR, then a short flight YVR-YYC.

Westbound flights from Europe to North America are basically all daytime flights, while eastbounds from N. America to Europe are almost all overnights with the exception of a handful from the US East Coast to London.

tod

Thanks for the reply rkkwan -Well, I don't know if I'm flying Business as yet. Sorry not to have made myself clear on that - If I can get a daylight flight I would glady go coach. I could then sit up and read, move around, maybe doze a little.
Night flights are an altogether different scenario for me. I like to take a mild sleeping tablet and get a good nights rest on a flat bed. This is how we will be flying SAA from South Africa to Munich (return) for the first leg of our holiday. Unfortunately our airmiles for an upgrade are locked into SAA only. We can't use them on any other airline.

Next hitch is, flying via the UK or USA. We require visas so that's out. The cost of acquiring those defeats the object of trying to get a reasonably cheap fare. We will already have Schengen Visas so Amsterdam is not a problem.

Sorry, but I donot understand YVR and YYC. (I do know that CDG is Charles de Gaulle and LHR is London Heathrow).

rkkwan - you have been most helpful. Now I need to look into more airlines I think.

J62

YVR = Vancouver
YYC = Calgary

I like to use www.kayak.com to look at flight options.

As rk said, all flight westbound across the Atlantic are daytime flights. Avoiding a connection in the UK or US will limit your options, but not terribly so.

On Kayak you can un-select all UK/US connecting airports to narrow your flight search. I don't book flights through kayak, but just use them to search for options.

tod

Very grateful J62! Thanks so much.

rkkwan

Air Canada does have a daytime Toronto (YYZ) to LHR flight. But since you can't transit in the UK, that's out.

Gardyloo

Why would you need a UK visa for a sterile transit at LHR? (Meaning, off the flight from France, right onto the flight to Canada - no UK immigration screening at all, just normal security/x-ray procedures.)

rkkwan

Gardyloo - I don't know whether this apply to the OP in the UK or not, but I know of at least one place that require passengers of certain nationalities to have a visa even for sterile transit. And that place is Hong Kong.

Jeff_Costa_Rica

Why is KLM via Amsterdam a problem? I've found AMS to be a good airport for international-to-international transfers. With all due respect to the poster who said she would never do it again, one person's bad experience doesn't mean that things are always that way.

Gavin

Sterile transit at LHR after AC daytimer from YYZ is not likely to work because arrival is too late for a conecting flight.

WillTravel

If you are flying Paris to Calgary, then that would likely be during the day and you wouldn't need a flat-bed seat (presumably). So you are saying you need this flat-bed seat for Calgary to Paris?

What might be worth it, and would be so much cheaper than business class, is taking a YYC-YYZ flight the night before, spending the night at a YYZ airport hotel, taking the daytime flight to London, and then spending the night in London (either at Heathrow for a morning flight, or perhaps at your preferred Ibis hotel near Kings Cross for a train).

WillTravel

Oh sorry, I missed the part that you can't transit in London. But I think it might still be cheaper than business class, even if you get a visa.

flanneruk

For nationalities (such as South Africans) who ordinarily need a visa for direct airside transit in the UK:

"A transit passenger is not required to hold a transit visa [for Direct Airside Transit] if he holds, or a person with whom he arrives in the United Kingdom holds on his behalf,...

- c.a valid airline ticket for travel via the United Kingdom as part of a journey from Australia, Canada, New Zealand or the United States of America to another country or territory, provided that the transit passenger does not seek to transit the United Kingdom on a date more than six months from the date on which they last entered Australia, Canada, New Zealand or the United States of America with a valid visa for entry to that country;
-e.a valid Canadian Permanent Resident Card issued on or after 28th June 2002;
- f.a valid common format Category D visa for entry to an EEA State;

In other words, most South Africans living legally in Canada and with a Schengen visa, may make an airside transit in the UK without a visa. To make a landside transit, they need a visa (so they need a visa to connect to a low-cost carrier like Ryanair or Easyjet)

So Tod cannot take a daytime flight to London, because there's no airside connection. But Tod MAY take an overnight flight to any UK airport with an airside connection to Paris, and a westbound flight leaving late enough to be connected with by an incoming flight from France.

Given the density of Canada-UK flights, the transatlantic part of the flight is most likely to be cheapest via the UK, though you're probably limited to onward flights on BA, Air France or bmi (none of whom are that expensive if you book ahead).

It's complicated, so don't trust me. Refer to the full guidance note at http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/howtoap...s/inf20transit

tod

Wow! So much interesting information - Well, to conclude my inquirey we have decided that the Air Transat flight direct from Paris to Calgary Club Class return is the way we are going to go.
I have no idea whether we have overpaid but comparing the price to other airlines, I think we did OK.
Not only do we get to fly decent hours: Paris-Calgary 10.35am arriving 12.05 (please tell me that is five past Noon and not five after midnight!!) Then returning: depart Calgary 3.55 in the afternoon - arr. Paris 8.05am.
The cost-$4,968.60 from the Travel Agent but $4,738-00 online for both of us.

rkkwan

Over $2,000 per person for basically a "premium economy" seat (2-3-2 seating, 36" pitch)? I am sorry, but I think that's a horrible deal.

And the main issue with Air Transat is that it's a budget airline and the route is flown only once a week. So, if there's any issue with the aircraft, etc, you may have to wait a long time before getting there.

And 12.05 is five past noon.

tod

rkkwan - I've read many of your posts and know you fly a hell of a lot so know what you are talking about - so help me out here please!
From information from the Travel Agent and Transat's website, they are linked to Air Canada. I take that as a good sign.
Although they fly once a week it suits our needs perfectly - I am sure, actually darn sure, that they would not leave passengers stranded for a whole week! Back home here, our national carrier South African Airways has two other airlines flying the same route, where passengers can get a seat if an aircraft is cancelled.

The main decision here is the expensive Club Class seat - which I will try my best to sleep on going back to Paris as it is a night flight. Flying out to Calgary in daylight will be much better - we could save some dollars here by taking the economy seats but I'm not that strapped for cash!

The next best option from the T/A was KLM and Business Class is a LOT more!

Jeff_Costa_Rica: I found out what the problem was. The Fodorite who complained had this to say: " I did not like the stress of finding the departure gate to Amsterdam. It was in another airport,actually. it was their domestic airport. that would have been nice to know BEFORE I got out of the car with all my luggage".

WillTravel

Rkkwan is correct about Air Transat being a charter airline with limited service. It's not linked to Air Canada. I can't say for sure if a week delay would happen, and most flights happen without a hitch, but certainly people have been delayed for some days.

Whether the club seat is worth it, I can't say, but don't expect anything like a mainline airline's business class product.

tod

Thanks WillTravel! We have taken out insurance against not being able to take the Transat airline for any reason, so if we were to find ourselves in a predicament, I would simply buy an airline ticket on the very next departure no matter which airline.
With the sorry state of our exchange rate we are paying R8.95 for CD$1. So, our airfare becomes $2,484 X2 X9 = R40,712.
Our airfares from Durban-Johannesburg-Munich return cost us just over R30,000 (CD$4,245 approx.)which are higher priced coach class seats, but are upgradable to Business which we have done with Airmiles.

Gardyloo

It sounds like you're spending a total of R35,000 each for SA > Europe > N. America and return?

Just for future reference, a round-the-world ticket originating in SA (which would cover all this travel plus Asia or Australia on the way back) is around R22,000 in economy or R48,000 in business class.

goingtobeijing

Air Transat is a discount airline, and is NOT affilated with Air Canada.

I have never flown with Air Transat but I know people who have flown them many times (to Europe, FL, and the Caribbean).
Their experience with Air Transat ranges from alright to bad.

The airline sells lots of packages (air and hotel) from Canada to beach destinations in Winter and European destinations in Summer.

The airline does have a small fleet so any delay can turn into a major delay (they will not automatically rebook you on regular airline to get you to your destination on time). I would be sure to check the fine print of your insurance policy, made sure you are aware of what is included in case of a flight delay. The good news is that flight delays are not the norm and you are travelling in summer, so the possiblity of a snow storm(s) causing major flight delays isn't a problem.

Here's some information about Air Transat Club class that maybe helpful to you:-

The club seat that you have purchased is not the same as a business class seat on a regular airline. The seats are at the front of the aircraft, and do not have all the bells and whistles that regular airlines have in business class. Meal service will be the same for all passengers, regardless of whether they are seated in Club class. The main difference between Air Transat's Club class and their economy class is that the seat is a little wider and there is more leg room.

Honestly, you are not getting much for the premium you are paying. If you can change the ticket, I would if other airlines have a flight schedule that would suit your needs. If you choose to travel on Air Transat or changing the ticket isn't feasible, make sure your insurance policy is adequate in case of a flight delay.