tripster, 'splain it to me :)
Oct 30th, 2006, 02:02 PM
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tripster, 'splain it to me :)
Hi,
I was wondering just exactly how so much of the tourist dollar in Zimbabwe goes to Mugabe. Let's say I'm looking at Matetsi, Amalinda, and WS' Makalolo in Hwange N.P. and I'm paying $1000. When, how, and how much of my money gets paid to Mugabe...besides the "non-resident" tax that is so prevalent in Southern Africa. I'm not doubting that he ever is successful, but always by significant amounts? I don't doubt the truth of his greed, but I never see anything more than accusations, rarely even anecdotes. So if it's such a big deal there must be a set of standard procedures and I can't imagine they wouldn't be common knowledge in the travel business. But I'm a traveler who just retuned after being in Zim for the month of Sep....and I am mzcuriouz ;D
I am so glad you brought this up, because I've always wondered how Mugabe and other creeps actually pull it off. Do they make weekly visits "Mafia style". Seems like a hassle to me, but then what else do his guys have to do anyway?
Good luck to you,
Marilyn
PS
You really are seeing Rocco "through a glass darkly." You might be well able to back up your position, but you would still be wrong. You've made a understandable mistake. You both have the same goals, just see different ways to get there. I don't know but I think the civil rights movement needed both the radicals and Dr. King. Believe me Rocco is a good man and you'll only benefit if you can appreciate his enthusiasms...because that's who he is. So read him "lightly"
I was wondering just exactly how so much of the tourist dollar in Zimbabwe goes to Mugabe. Let's say I'm looking at Matetsi, Amalinda, and WS' Makalolo in Hwange N.P. and I'm paying $1000. When, how, and how much of my money gets paid to Mugabe...besides the "non-resident" tax that is so prevalent in Southern Africa. I'm not doubting that he ever is successful, but always by significant amounts? I don't doubt the truth of his greed, but I never see anything more than accusations, rarely even anecdotes. So if it's such a big deal there must be a set of standard procedures and I can't imagine they wouldn't be common knowledge in the travel business. But I'm a traveler who just retuned after being in Zim for the month of Sep....and I am mzcuriouz ;D
I am so glad you brought this up, because I've always wondered how Mugabe and other creeps actually pull it off. Do they make weekly visits "Mafia style". Seems like a hassle to me, but then what else do his guys have to do anyway?
Good luck to you,
Marilyn
PS
You really are seeing Rocco "through a glass darkly." You might be well able to back up your position, but you would still be wrong. You've made a understandable mistake. You both have the same goals, just see different ways to get there. I don't know but I think the civil rights movement needed both the radicals and Dr. King. Believe me Rocco is a good man and you'll only benefit if you can appreciate his enthusiasms...because that's who he is. So read him "lightly"
Oct 30th, 2006, 03:35 PM
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An inspired post!
Ask donor organisation where the cash went.
Also like you have heard rumours and read stories of embezzlement, but don't know it for a fact.
truth is neither can the six million starving Zimbos either find the truth.
Ask donor organisation where the cash went.
Also like you have heard rumours and read stories of embezzlement, but don't know it for a fact.
truth is neither can the six million starving Zimbos either find the truth.
Oct 30th, 2006, 03:45 PM
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Hi Marilyn,
First of all, the only way anyone operates a safari concession in Zim today is by making huge payoffs to the ruling party and "partnering" with ZANU-PF politicos.
That is a euphemism for protection money--you pay them off or they will force you out of business.
Second, ZANU-PF forces operators to change your hard currency into Zimdollars at bogus official rates and they pocket the difference.
The official rate is ZW$250 to US$1. The black market rate is at least 1,750 to 1. Do the math, it's a lucrative shake down!
Third, don't forget all your parks fees and visa charges. All straight into the pocket of ZANU-PF goons who (mis)use their official positions to terrorize ordinary people.
I'm not saying tourism single-handedly keeps Mugabe going. But if you don't think it helps, read the state-run papers -- they trumpet every tourist arrival as a vote of confidence in Mugabe and ZANU-PF.
As for Rocco, I'm sure he honestly thinks he is doing good by bringing tourist to Zim.
I just think he's dead wrong.
First of all, the only way anyone operates a safari concession in Zim today is by making huge payoffs to the ruling party and "partnering" with ZANU-PF politicos.
That is a euphemism for protection money--you pay them off or they will force you out of business.
Second, ZANU-PF forces operators to change your hard currency into Zimdollars at bogus official rates and they pocket the difference.
The official rate is ZW$250 to US$1. The black market rate is at least 1,750 to 1. Do the math, it's a lucrative shake down!
Third, don't forget all your parks fees and visa charges. All straight into the pocket of ZANU-PF goons who (mis)use their official positions to terrorize ordinary people.
I'm not saying tourism single-handedly keeps Mugabe going. But if you don't think it helps, read the state-run papers -- they trumpet every tourist arrival as a vote of confidence in Mugabe and ZANU-PF.
As for Rocco, I'm sure he honestly thinks he is doing good by bringing tourist to Zim.
I just think he's dead wrong.
Oct 30th, 2006, 04:33 PM
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I did put this question to my travel agent who is very close to "The Hide" in Zimbabwe and she has many friends there. She said, yes definitely some money goes into Mugabe's hands. But, the tourist money also goes to help keep the camps open and help the people who run/guide/work there and is their only means of income. Lots of lodges/camps are already closed down.
She said, unfortunately air-charters to transfer to the lodges wasnt advisable as it is very very expensive due to all the political situations....however, it is safe to drive from Vic falls area to Hwange or wherever...
Hari
She said, unfortunately air-charters to transfer to the lodges wasnt advisable as it is very very expensive due to all the political situations....however, it is safe to drive from Vic falls area to Hwange or wherever...
Hari
Oct 31st, 2006, 06:52 AM
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I think everyone has to come to his own decision regarding visits to countries run by thugs. It's often hard to know whether you are hurting or helping or neither. But one thing to consider in your calculations is the very real possibility of personal danger. In a country where the rule of law is a joke, thugs know they can rape/murder/plunder at will, and they sometimes do.
Oct 31st, 2006, 06:56 PM
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Celia,
Those awful events can occur anywhere in the world....you just have to take precaution......
Sorry, i'm not talking about Zimbabwe any further.....there have been enough threads on the subject over the past many months and it's upto each and every person to make their decision...
Hari
Those awful events can occur anywhere in the world....you just have to take precaution......
Sorry, i'm not talking about Zimbabwe any further.....there have been enough threads on the subject over the past many months and it's upto each and every person to make their decision...
Hari
Nov 4th, 2006, 07:11 PM
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Mugabe is in China at the moment for the China-Africa summit.
Those that haven't followed this topic in the news, China is trying to network with several African countries for enhanced trade and developement.
China's stance is, that they do not interfere with the internal issues/politics of any country in the world.
Hari
Those that haven't followed this topic in the news, China is trying to network with several African countries for enhanced trade and developement.
China's stance is, that they do not interfere with the internal issues/politics of any country in the world.
Hari
Nov 5th, 2006, 01:50 AM
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Don't get me started on China. But since you did....
China won't interfere because it doesn't want businesses to interfere in its own "internal matters" -- witness its successful pressure on Google to limit freedom of expression on the the search engine. It also wants money from the international marketplace.
Although you can pick the US's policy apart for many reasons, I do appreciate that sometimes the US government does use its financial clout to try to influence another government's internal policies -- South Africa, for example.
China won't interfere because it doesn't want businesses to interfere in its own "internal matters" -- witness its successful pressure on Google to limit freedom of expression on the the search engine. It also wants money from the international marketplace.
Although you can pick the US's policy apart for many reasons, I do appreciate that sometimes the US government does use its financial clout to try to influence another government's internal policies -- South Africa, for example.
Nov 5th, 2006, 04:05 AM
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Sunshine 007,
I only mentioned China's non-interference practice, in relation to Zim before people start posting about how could they invite Mugabe to their country etc etc.,
Dont want to get into the US foreign policy stuff here.......this is about Africa travel and not politics.
Hari
I only mentioned China's non-interference practice, in relation to Zim before people start posting about how could they invite Mugabe to their country etc etc.,
Dont want to get into the US foreign policy stuff here.......this is about Africa travel and not politics.
Hari
Nov 5th, 2006, 01:00 PM
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Ah, but Bill H., China believes that Tibet is part of China & not a separate country, so it believes that it is not interefering with the internal policies of another country merely trying to keep its citizens in line.
As I said, don't get me started on China.....
As I said, don't get me started on China.....
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